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  1. #181
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    May. 3, 2006
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    11,568

    Default

    Now I've lost the plot on this one and love a good debate - but can someone tell me why is Sannois arguing with Noir? Is one pro and one anti rollkur because I've been ploughing through postings and I'm damned if I can work it out ???????????



  2. #182
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2005
    Posts
    995

    Default Thomas

    Sannois is not arguing with Noir, Siegi is.

    And I think Sabine just compared Noir to Hitler, the Austrian reference, but I am not sure, because perhaps Noir is in fact Austrian.



  3. #183
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Southern California/Muenchen
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    2,987

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoline
    Sannois is not arguing with Noir, Siegi is.

    And I think Sabine just compared Noir to Hitler, the Austrian reference, but I am not sure, because perhaps Noir is in fact Austrian.
    Karoline- I did not and I do not appreciate such comments. This is what makes BBs dangerous. It is YOUR brain that did that and splurted it out - blahh just like that.

    This is a fact. I would not have said that otherwise and I deeply resent nationalistic comments on a dressage board.. so do apologize!!!



  4. #184
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2005
    Posts
    995

    Default Are you saying Theresa is Austrian?

    If you know that for a fact, then the last part of my sentence is self explanatory.

    If she is swedish which she seems to be "my nationality", you must admit it is an odd thing to say that you think she is not Swedish but rather Austrian.

    I dont believe I owe you an apology. Though of course the mere mention of Hitler is guaranteed to get the political correctness police all affluter.



  5. #185
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Southern California/Muenchen
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    Thumbs down Karoline- your post is of bad taste...

    please reread what you said...be careful what associations you make and take your time responding. I do not post stuff I don't know.
    Chill- and say- sorry if I brought up a word that is not wanted in a dressage forum...I surely would appreciate some tact in regards to the H-word......



  6. #186
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2005
    Posts
    995

    Default So she is Austrian?

    ?

    Do you feel the same about the Hitler word as you do about the I word: Idi Amin Dada, the S world Stalin, the new S word Saddam, etc...?

    If you had said Italy, I would have brought up Mussolini.



  7. #187
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Southern California/Muenchen
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoline
    ?

    Do you feel the same about the Hitler word as you do about the I word: Idi Amin Dada, the S world Stalin, the new S word Saddam, etc...?

    If you had said Italy, I would have brought up Mussolini.

    Karoline- this is not a pissing contest...I am from Europe I don't care about the names you mention- I am German and I am sensitive to references to Hitler-it devastated my family....
    nonetheless- I am not here to discuss my family or heritage - I am here to discuss dressage...so what do you have to say in regards to that- I would appreciate discussing..--- keep the rest to yourself please....it is appropriate , shows good taste and stays within the context of what we are discussing. Frankly I don't care how many nationalities you can man up- when you are from Europe - it's like cross state lines in the US- big WHOOP!



  8. #188
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2005
    Posts
    995

    Default So she is Austrian??? Still waiting for that resounding YES

    Regarding the thread, I had a thought today that in a way this new way of riding, of training is almost like the rider is using its body like a bodybuilding machine, a piece of apparatus that puts the horse in a shape and maintains it which is why we are seing some posters here mention bulging biceps, a lot of strenght, etc...In this new way of riding the rider is sometimes called the fifth leg and you can see some of the riders using their upper bodies as a lever...and have a very fixed silhouette.

    This may also explain why some horses appear to be in the same outline from beginning to end of a ride with no changes in the neck in extended trot or in walk.

    It may also explain why some look at H.Schmidt way of riding as too much motion and incorrect when to me it shows his body's flexibility and ability to absorb motion with a soft seat.

    Having Sab on the board has been very helfpul to me because she is the first GP trainer we have that is explaining her training approach, it is helpful to look at for example how some of us think of helping a horse bend more and how some of you(s) think of it - it is clear that there is a big divide. I am trying to see how much of it is semantic --for example you say "oblige the horse" and I say "ask the horse" and to me its extremely different, one implies making the horse, the other implies working with the horse toward a result--and how much of it is really a completely different way of ***looking*** at the horse.


    These last few days have been very thought provoking for me.
    Last edited by Karoline; Jun. 22, 2006 at 04:49 AM.



  9. #189
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2004
    Location
    Sweden
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    86

    Default FWIW

    I know Noir, I have even been to her home!

    I am Swedish - as is she. I think the Austrian remark refers to Ulrike Thiel of www.hippocampus-nl.com , she lives in Holland. And is a really courageous woman.
    The important thing is not nationality. That means nothing to a horse. When you see the pictures and films of what is going on in the name of Dressage, something in you - as a human - reacts - or not. I don´t care if somebody´s husband had taken the pictures in blissful ignorance of what they depict. What you see in these pictures is not something beneficial to the horse.



  10. #190
    Join Date
    Aug. 29, 2005
    Location
    Stockholm
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    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1
    ... but can someone tell me why is Sannois arguing with Noir? Is one pro and one anti rollkur because I've been ploughing through postings and I'm damned if I can work it out ???????????
    You know, this could have been so, although I think in this case it isn't. There is nothing that says that a pro and an anti rolkkur debater cannot agree on some things, and that two people on the same side cannot disagree.

    But I guess that's me. I don't really care what side of the argument a posters posts have been on, but rather what they are saying in the post I'm responding to. It's the same thing with the nationality thing. I don't care if people are Dutch, German, Austrian, Swedish, or Norwegian. We are all interested in dressage, and I have more in common with these people than I have with other Swedes who think soccer is all the rage. And, yes, I'm Swedish. Ulrike Thiel is native Austrian but lives in the Netherlands. My anonymous photographer (the 2005 warmup-photos) is Dutch/Belgian. Horses for Life comes out of Canada. Etc.

    Why is that important? Since we have no old dictator in Swedish history, does my swedishness connect me to Hans Blix instead? I whish, but hardly. I never met the guy.

    Don't let this discussion deteriorate into a "your country committed this atrocity against my people 60 years ago" because that needs another forum.

    Theresa
    "Tradition ist nicht Asche bewahren, sondern die Weitergabe des Feuers"
    "Tradition är inte att spara askan, utan att föra elden vidare"



  11. #191
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    12,346

    Thumbs up Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b.
    Sannois - I don't believe I'm being rude (unless having a different opinion means doing just that), and I certainly wouldn't get any pleasure out of it. I do get tired of Swedish pot stirrers who delight in getting folks all hot under the collar and mad at each other. I don't know why this Swede gets away with pronouncing herself expert on all matters dressage and frankly don't see how she qualifies. This has nothing to do with RK and everything with the control freak nature of said Scandinavian. I'm sorry to see folks playing along with it...

    As far as the Shepherds are concerned, they're my pride and joy! I was a member of the German Sherpherd Club (Deutscher Schaeferhundverein) and have taken a dog to Schutzhund II. That was a long time ago and nowadays I'm content to just put basic training on my pups because they're basically farm dogs and loving it. If you're anywhere near Waterford and need a Shepherd/foal fix' by all means come out and visit. We're easy to find....
    Will do! Your critters are lovely.. When I retire I plan on getting back into shepherds.. I mis my dear departed girl something fierce!!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  12. #192
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    12,346

    Question Oh my heavens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir
    Or maybe I insist on passing on the fire instead of perverting it? I'm in no doubt you will say anything that is the exact opposite to what I say. But it's a free world.

    T
    did all this fuss come from me complimenting Noir on her sig line??? Holy hell.. I have been on the old Slaughter thread.. Change of pace.. YIKE!! I wasn't arguing about anything .. merely had my husband translate her line.. I really loved it.. Wowser, how words can get misconstrued!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  13. #193
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    fill a barn full of perimenopausal maniacs, look what happens.



  14. #194
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Thumbs up Huh???

    Quote Originally Posted by slc2
    fill a barn full of perimenopausal maniacs, look what happens.
    I dont know who you are talking to ... I complimented her sig line.. Dang I wasnt even here... People really dont read what is written/
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  15. #195
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    14,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois
    People really dont read what is written/
    Isn't that the blessing of being able to ignore and skip certain posters in this new forum?
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  16. #196
    Join Date
    Sep. 10, 2001
    Location
    Southeast
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    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1
    I have taught classical riding and classical dressage for over 30 years and whilst many labour under the illusion that this technique is something to do with dressage, in my professional view rollkur is riding at its worst.

    Classical riding is about acquiring the knowledge to tune into the horse so that his natural grandeur and abilities are freed up and maximised. This has got nothing to do with that whatsoever! Those who seek to explain the videos are merely making excuses for disgusting riding and horsemanship - whether its a caputured moment in time or for excessive periods.
    Thank you Thomas_1, well said.

    There is nothing that enhances the natural grace and movement of the horse with rider with this method.

    A careful re-reading (or first reading!) of Podhajsky's books is necessary to all who practice and condone RK.



  17. #197
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
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    8,542

    Default

    a moment of silence, please....



  18. #198
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    May. 3, 2006
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    11,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Songs
    Thank you Thomas_1, well said.

    There is nothing that enhances the natural grace and movement of the horse with rider with this method.

    A careful re-reading (or first reading!) of Podhajsky's books is necessary to all who practice and condone RK.
    Personally I'm not a huge fan of books on riding and training horses, believing that these are practical skills that cannot be taught or learnt from reading books. There is no doubt however that Alois Podhajsky contributed immensely to saving the Spanish Riding School horses when they were threatened during the war and that as Director of that establishment he had immense practical knowledge and experience of bringing on top level classical dressage horses.

    For books though, I personally look further back and frequently refer to my 'bible' published in 1878 and not exactly light reading "Classical Equitation and horsemanship"

    Read that and you will be as cynical as I am whenever some idiot tells you about the new training techniques espoused by modern table top books!



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