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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
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    1,182

    Default How far is too far for a farrier?

    This afternoon the farrier came out to trim the horses feet. Sheza was just a plain PITA. I switched and let him trim Tex while I tried to lunge Sheza, she was still rearing and know almost charging back at me. Tex stood great even with a non horesey neighbor held him. Sheza just wouldn't let the farrier pick up her legs, yet I could pick them all up, hold them for a minute while she stood pretty much ground tied. Went back to the farrier and she was still acting up, pulling back, not holding still, so he backs her up fast making her run backwords and smacks her in the ribs with the rasp, so hard you could hear the thud. He ended up doing that a few more times, then took her and lunged her, which she reared and charged at him to, but he was bigger and got her lunging nicely, like she use to. Hoping that if I lunge her tomarrow she will still remember how to. After that and a few more incidents he finished. I gave him a tip even though my dad thought it's part of his job, his job is trimming not training.

    I didn't really care to much that she got smacked, she was a PITA, almost dangerous, but he did is with the rasp which left a big cut along her flank, and a few marks where he hit her hard with the whip, I am glad he did somthing, if I was the farrier I would have just left, but he is a good guy. Is it going to far to hit a horse in the ribs several times with a rasp? She is so shaking up from it, she is not a horse that you punnish like that. Just walking around the corner of the barn she saw me at of the corner of her eye and bolted, then saw it was me and walked back to me. Then when puting some stuff on he cuts I reached to her flank and she shied away and was almost shaking, it's sad I don't want to see her scared like that, yet she needs to behave for the farrier.
    -Lindsey



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    10,987

    Default

    Has she acted like this before with the farrier?

    My horse had some issues with my farrier when I moved barns. The farrier asked ahead of time if he could discipline my horse (who is fine with me but tests strangers). Horse reared in the x-ties and the farrier whacked him with the rasp and backed him. But my farrier is a very good horseperson and knows when to stop. My horse deserved it and was immedietly better. But my farrier didn't leave marks on him or cut him, and my horse didn't shake after.

    But there is a fine line between disciplining a horse and going overboard and it takes a good horseperson to realize that.

    It's also up to you to make sure she acts as good as possible before the farrier gets out there. Since you've been having problems, maybe you could have someone knowledgable around horses come out and help you. Or send both horses to the trainer.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    She has never been great, but she was getting better. When I first got her she wouldn't even pick up her hind legs without kicking thte crap out of you, and know she will pick all four, she doesn't like her leg between the farriers though.

    I think some of the discipline is fine, but not enough to cut her and have her cower down when I go to pet her. She is just a sensitive horse and that doesn't help.
    -Lindsey



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2003
    Location
    Chesterfield, MO
    Posts
    1,185

    Default

    Where knowledge ends, violence begins.

    Let me repeat that, "Where knowledge ends, violence begins."

    Sounds like both you AND the farrier need to get some training. Not the horse, the humans.

    Why would you stand by and let the farrier abuse your horse like this? He's a "good guy," yet your horse was cut by the rasp AND has whip marks? And now your horse is shying and shaking when you reach out to her?

    Methinks you need a new definition of "good" as well as some instruction from someone who knows how to handle horses in a more effective manner. Get a new farrier; get a qualified mentor, and get some help.

    As always, JMO. Good luck.
    Barbara www.customstockties.com
    Tulsa-QH; Schnickelfritz-Holsteiner; Atikus-Danish Warmblood; Buddy-QH/TB; Winston-Shire; Thomas-Percheron/TB; Mac-Belgian Draft, gone but never forgotten



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    10,134

    Default

    I trust my farrier completely. He is the one under my horses and he feels the shift/test/lean the nanno second it begins and can determine if my horse is doing it to be a jerk/test him or needs to rearrange itself. Every time they are handled I expect my horses to stand quietly for any work being done to them- grooming, clipping, farrier or veterinary work.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 24, 2005
    Location
    Pullman, Washington
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    I'd talk to him and say "I don't appreciate how you treated my horse the last time. If you can't control your self and make it a pleasent experience for her, I'll find someone who can."

    The farrier smacked Rayya on the belly with a rasp once. I didn't appreciated it! But a 12yo telling a grown cowboy "next time please don't hit her".... Yeah, I don't think I could have done that.

    Ami got heavily fanned with a baseball cap on the neck once. She looked at the guy like "What? Thats the best you got? Your soooo lame!"

    I would work really hard with Sheza and her feet. Pick them up, pat them with your hand, hold them in different ways for different periods of time, teach her to pick them up on a voice command. Tell the guy what I said above. If it still goes bad, have someone else come out next time.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2006
    Location
    Somewhere cold in Canada
    Posts
    512

    Angry

    If ANYONE treated any of my horses like this they wouldn't lay one finger on them again. The would be escorted off my property, without one red cent in their pocket. I'd finish my horses feet myself (I do know how, but with 5 horses, it gets a bit much).

    I can't believe you let the farrier do this to your horse. You think she had problems with the farrier before, just wait until the next time he comes, you'll be lucky that she doesn't injure herself trying to get away... oh, sorry, you probably won't care, seeing that you don't have a problem with a stranger to your horse leaving her with cuts and whip marks .

    If this is the kind of steward you are to your horse, you don't deserve her. Your post really ticked me off, I'm so mad right now, that I'm pounding out this post on the keyboard. Your wonderful farrier has now created a huge problem with your horse that now has to be corrected with a whole lot of PATIENCE not VIOLENCE.

    If you were my daughter, I probably would decide that you weren't ready to have a horse, and until you had a hell of alot more experience, the only horse you'd be allowed to be around would be a broke to death schoolie.
    "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

    ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    She is a PITA with all farriers yet I can pick her feet up fine, she just doesn't trust them.

    Rt66kix, I really don't get what I did wrong here, the farrier is a trainer, owns cattle, and trims for well respected people, including Bar Money Sunny, one of the best QH in the state of Kansas, I doubt he would listen to me. As for getting a new farrier, they arn't around every corner where I am.
    -Lindsey



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2005
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ and South Hadley, MA
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    She is a PITA with all farriers yet I can pick her feet up fine, she just doesn't trust them.

    Rt66kix, I really don't get what I did wrong here, the farrier is a trainer, owns cattle, and trims for well respected people, including Bar Money Sunny, one of the best QH in the state of Kansas, I doubt he would listen to me. As for getting a new farrier, they are around every corner where I am.
    Gee, I wonder WHY she doesn't trust them....

    Just because this farrier is a trainer, owns cattle, and is employed by "well-respected people" means that you should let him beat the living hell out of your horse?

    And what you did wrong was standing by and permitting your horse to abused in this fashion. Just because you weren't the one gashing her with a rasp doesn't mean you aren't at least partially responsible.
    http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ncer/?start=20

    Mares are like neutrons. If there are too many in an area, you approach critical mass. And then there are explosions. Loud ones.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2004
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    Rt66kix, I really don't get what I did wrong here, the farrier is a trainer, owns cattle, and trims for well respected people, including Bar Money Sunny, one of the best QH in the state of Kansas, I doubt he would listen to me. As for getting a new farrier, they are around every corner where I am.
    You don't get what you did wrong?!
    You let somebody ABUSE your horse without so much as saying "Can you please stop doing that?" I can't believe that you don't think you did anything wrong. I admit, sometimes I read your posts for the value, but this has gone too far. You do NOT deserve to have these horses in your care.
    My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
    http://www.youtube.com/kheit86



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Need4speed
    If ANYONE treated any of my horses like this they wouldn't lay one finger on them again. The would be escorted off my property, without one red cent in their pocket. I'd finish my horses feet myself (I do know how, but with 5 horses, it gets a bit much).

    I can't believe you let the farrier do this to your horse. You think she had problems with the farrier before, just wait until the next time he comes, you'll be lucky that she doesn't injure herself trying to get away... oh, sorry, you probably won't care, seeing that you don't have a problem with a stranger to your horse leaving her with cuts and whip marks .

    If this is the kind of steward you are to your horse, you don't deserve her. Your post really ticked me off, I'm so mad right now, that I'm pounding out this post on the keyboard. Your wonderful farrier has now created a huge problem with your horse that now has to be corrected with a whole lot of PATIENCE not VIOLENCE.

    If you were my daughter, I probably would decide that you weren't ready to have a horse, and until you had a hell of alot more experience, the only horse you'd be allowed to be around would be a broke to death schoolie.
    Seriously, whats your problem?

    I didn't notice any of the marks untill he left, I didn't think the whip actually hit her (he took her into the paddock to lunge) I didn't know he hit her with the rasp, I thought it was his hand at first.

    You saying that I don't care if my horses get hurt is a load of crap, I care for these horses so much, they are my life. I don't pay the farrier to come and abuse my horses, this is the first time he laid a hand on her. You think I want him to abuse her, seeing her shy away is hurtful, just because someone hit her. It make me mad that I aska question and you jump on me about letting someone hit her, not much I am going to do as a kid and him being a BNT!

    So just because a farrier that I had recomended by several people to get away from a farrier that just made her feet worse, just because I cared about her to look for a new farrier I should have my horse taken away, because I didn't know what he did till after?

    -Lindsey



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    10,987

    Default

    I think you need to find a new farrier and get your horses into training since they seem to be having some issues (charging and rearing).

    It's ok for a farrier to discipline the horse (see my first post), but drawing blood or leaving marks is not ok.

    Were your parents there to see how bad it was?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2004
    Location
    Collegeville, PA
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    pulling back, not holding still, so he backs her up fast making her run backwords and smacks her in the ribs with the rasp, so hard you could hear the thud.
    You obviously knew, as you heard the THUD that the rasp made, you said that in your very first post. And it doesn't matter if he's a BNT, that is no reason for you allowing him to ABUSE your horse.
    My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
    http://www.youtube.com/kheit86



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2005
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ and South Hadley, MA
    Posts
    948

    Default

    I would have to say that one of the biggest "red-flags", so to speak, is that you are even QUESTIONING the fact that what happened was obviously wrong and VIOLENT. Sure, you may not have known until after - and in that case, you need to watch your horses during the shoeing process (and at all times) MUCH more carefully. But you should not, in any case, even be asking whether or not that kind of abuse is "wrong".

    Oh, and as for the farrier being a "BNT"? What the **** does it matter that he's a "BNT"? Does this mean that he can abuse your horses just because he "knows what he's doing"?
    http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ncer/?start=20

    Mares are like neutrons. If there are too many in an area, you approach critical mass. And then there are explosions. Loud ones.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    I heard a thud, didn't know what it was untill after I saw the cut.

    My dad was there, he didn't see the cuts either till after the farrier was done.
    -Lindsey



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2005
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ and South Hadley, MA
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    I heard a thud, didn't know what it was untill after I saw the cut.

    My dad was there, he didn't see the cuts either till after the farrier was done.
    Again....in that case, you need to watch your horses more carefully.
    http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ncer/?start=20

    Mares are like neutrons. If there are too many in an area, you approach critical mass. And then there are explosions. Loud ones.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline Weber
    I would have to say that one of the biggest "red-flags", so to speak, is that you are even QUESTIONING the fact that what happened was obviously wrong and VIOLENT. Sure, you may not have known until after - and in that case, you need to watch your horses during the shoeing process (and at all times) MUCH more carefully. But you should not, in any case, even be asking whether or not that kind of abuse is "wrong".

    Oh, and as for the farrier being a "BNT"? What the **** does it matter that he's a "BNT"? Does this mean that he can abuse your horses just because he "knows what he's doing"?
    I didn't know that Kansas has the only cowboy trimmers that smack the horses. The previous farrier also smacked her, but never leaving a mark.

    I was saying he was a BNT that I doubt he abused that stud, I don't know why he would to Sheza.
    -Lindsey



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2005
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ and South Hadley, MA
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    I didn't know that Kansas has the only cowboy trimmers that smack the horses. The previous farrier also smacked her, but never leaving a mark.

    I was saying he was a BNT that I doubt he abused that stud, I don't know why he would to Sheza.
    I don't know what the heck Kansas or "cowboy trimmers" have to do with ANYTHING. Regardless of where you are located or what "type" of person does your farrier work, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that they are knowledgeable, safe, and patient.
    http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ncer/?start=20

    Mares are like neutrons. If there are too many in an area, you approach critical mass. And then there are explosions. Loud ones.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline Weber
    I don't know what the heck Kansas or "cowboy trimmers" have to do with ANYTHING. Regardless of where you are located or what "type" of person does your farrier work, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that they are knowledgeable, safe, and patient.
    What I am saying, find a farrier around here that doesn't smack a horse and costs less then $100 a shoe and I will switch.
    -Lindsey



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2005
    Location
    Sergeantsville, NJ and South Hadley, MA
    Posts
    948

    Default

    So you'll let someone abuse your horse just because it's cheaper?
    http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ncer/?start=20

    Mares are like neutrons. If there are too many in an area, you approach critical mass. And then there are explosions. Loud ones.



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