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  1. #21
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    No such thing as a predictable *any* animal. Dollars to donuts the grown up and toddler went to the equine area if they were visible from the nursery for the child to see, pet or feed the horses. Could either have been a grown up holding the child up to see horse better or the horse leaning down over the fence going for a bite of grass that the child pulled up to feed the horse. If in the latter scenerio (which I've seen about a zillion times) the child was holding a clump of grass hugged to their chest to feed the horse, then it's very easily possible the horse accidentally got a nip of the poor child's face. For such a small sized human, the smallest nip of the front teeth can cause enormous injuries. I can easily picture a small child grabbing up a clump of grass and waving it for the horse...then seeing the size of the head coming towards the child get a tad nervous and scrunching up...pulling grass in towards their face/chest area. This is completely a guess on my part...I grew up working on a rather large very public horse farm that was in a suburban area and next door to the junior high school's parking lot. Every single summer night that parking lot and sidewalk filled up with parents and small children coming to pet the horses and try to feed them clumps of grass or even coming with paper bags full of dinner leftovers to feed the horses. We actually had to patrol the fence line from 5 to 7 pm summer nights to protect the public and the horses from being fed leftover tuna casserole. They meant well, and our horses in that paddock were all bomb proof trail horses...but accidents do indeed happen and as said...a 100% predictable animal is a figment of the imagination. They're not capable of cognitive thought.
    And yes, CT does have an attractive nuissance law. Which is why I always recommend double perimeter fencing or keeping equines out of view of the road if bringing horses home in this state. Apparently it's our faults for having "amusement park petting zoos" for having a farm.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  2. #22
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    Jan. 3, 2006
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    Somewhere cold in Canada
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    No offence meant Thomas 1, I'm so glad that you have an absolute horse utopia where none of your horses would ever behave in an inappropriate or unpredictable manner.

    I have a previously abused gelding. I am currently re-training him. That being said, I'll never trust him around a strange man. I've seen his eyes go red with his ears pinned back, hoof raised to strike, when a large man spoke loudly to him. Doesn't make him a bad horse, just protecting himself from what he perceives as a threat. I'm aware of this, and no matter how much training I do with him, i'll never trust him around a man. i make sure everyone else who comes on my property invited knows this too. If you trespass, you deal with the consequences.

    I have two yearlings. My 6 year old daughter hangs from around their neck. She's sat on them. (before you flame me, she's all of 50 lbs, and only for a very short time) She could fall into their backside and they don't do a thing... Would I let her friends do the same thing? Not a freakin' chance. Why? BECAUSE HORSES ARE UNPREDICTABLE!!!
    "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

    ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Keswick, VA
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    If a commercial equine yard or even a single horse owner has a horse that is bad mannered and to such an extent that its viscious and biting people and toddlers in the face, then its their responsibility to ensure that its away from where it can do any damage or harm until its properly trained.
    I cannot think of a single horse I have ever met who would not, under some circumstances, be capable of biting a child. Horses bite for many reasons; for food, at flies, in response to some action on the human's part, or just as part of their personality. If someone's face is in the way at that particular time, that is what is going to get bitten.
    Even if this was the one horse in the world who would never bite anyone, a child whose face was close enough to bite was close enough to be seriously injured if the horse flipped its head or turned its head suddenly to one side. The force of a horse's head against the face of a two year old would be enough to cause damage alone. This is why thinking parents do not allow their children within close proximity to large animals.



  4. #24
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    May. 3, 2006
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    Well all I can think of is that you lot all know totally different horses to the ones I've known all my life. As I said I'm a horse trainer with a commercial yard.
    I currently own 48 and can't even begin to work out how many I've owned and known in my lifetime.

    I undertake remedial training so of course have known horses that are bad mannered and dangerous, but its NOT the norm and I remain appalled at the attitudes and opinions of those who seem to think that the 2 year old and/or its father got what it deserved and what should have been totally expected.



  5. #25
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    Jan. 3, 2006
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    Somewhere cold in Canada
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    I would NEVER suggest that the 2 year old got what he deserved. No one deserves to be injured by a bite that may disfigure you for life. However, if people would demonstrate even a modicum of common sense, there are so many senseless accidents that could be avoided. And of course, I'm talking about the father.

    Unfortunately, I have to say that I could see my husband doing this. "Oh, don't worry, he looks friendly...."
    "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

    ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~



  6. #26
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2006
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    MA and VA
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    47

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    Dear Thomas 1,
    I commend you on having perfectly well-behaved and totally predicable horses but you have missed the point. It is irresponsible of anyone, let alone an adult with a child to approach and touch an unknown horse. You know your own horses and their temperaments, thus you trust them around children and in your type of operation that would be quite prudent.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2004
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    New Hampshire
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    Sounds like you have some great horses. But I still think of ALL animals as unpredictable. Like the stories you hear where the family Labrador was great with kids and suddenly bit a child. I don't blame the father or the child, because some people just do not have a clue, but I don't blame the horse or owner either.
    Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

    Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.



  8. #28
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    I remain appalled at the attitudes and opinions of those who seem to think that the 2 year old and/or its father got what it deserved and what should have been totally expected.
    Oh most definitely agree that no child deserves this at all. I feel absolutely horrid for the poor toddler, scarring and obviously the current pain he's most likely feeling.
    Not everyone takes the time to train full ground manners into their horses...and this wasn't an open public farmyard either. There's no way to know what the temperament of any of those horses might be like or what the actual situation was. Much like in a training yard...a new training prospect could arrive at anyone's place that doesn't have his ground manners yet nor be trained yet. If this horse is turned out and strangers wander onto the property and choose this paddock to approach to pet and fondle the horse, there's a good chance the horse might bite.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  9. #29
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    May. 3, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Need4speed
    I have a previously abused gelding. I am currently re-training him. That being said, I'll never trust him around a strange man. I've seen his eyes go red with his ears pinned back, hoof raised to strike, when a large man spoke loudly to him. [/B]
    Hatred of men is a fairly common complaint, though it is often in the owner's imagination and I have never met a horse who truly dislikes men unless he's been severely beaten up by one - and I own those myself - having come with an appalling history and now perfectly calm and o.k. and I'd certainly trust them with my grandchildren and with any man on the premises. An uncomfortable experience with the vet or farrier may also lead the horse to distrust men in some cases.

    However the solution is not to NEVER trust the horse around men, rather the answer lies in exposing him to male company as much as possible, until the horse realises that he has nothing to fear. Make a point of asking every male who comes in or near the yard to talk to your horse and eventually to make a fuss of him whether they are interested in horses or not!



  10. #30
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Livestock can be dangerous to children
    Well, duh!! So can anything that's bigger than a child and moves, including cars........brother Poor child and horse



  11. #31
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    Jun. 20, 2005
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    I have read that some people feel that the horse should not have bitten and that their is a problem with the horse because the horse bit.
    I agree that animals are unpredictable. We have boarder horse (just over a year now) who reached out and bit me last week. Why? I don't know. As I said, horse has been here over a year and I was doing what I have been doing for that whole year, raking the dirt floor (aisle). Just one of chose things. Sure I got after him - but it was so out of character. May never do it again and hasn't tried either. Beats me why that one day.
    *
    One pair of good hands is better than having a thousand different bits.




  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
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    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by evenstar
    Hope the horse is up to date on rabies vaccination. Usually, the quarantine rules only come into play if the authorities are worried about rabies. Still, I think the barn owner and horse owner are in for a wild ride.
    Hello! This is the exact reason I gave one of my boarders Hell today when for the third time, she failed to have her horse vaccinated (rabies included) because she "didnt have the money."

    And yes...even the sweetest horse can make a mistake and grab a finger. Horses, like babies, explore the world with their mouths!
    Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org



  13. #33
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    The situation is very sad and I feel terrible for the child. And imagine what an A** the father feels like right now. I sure wouldn't have wanted to be him, explaining THAT to the baby's mother...

    and there are ocassional bites, and then there are horses who are biters. I would not put it past my two year old to bite someone, he does not have a history of it but he is two. My 10 year old.. no. If he did, I would seriously consider that there was something wrong with him or I have done a pisspoor job training him. Horses should not bite people. Those people who keep horses that bite and justify it, are crazy IMO.



  14. #34
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    Jun. 7, 2002
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    Virginia
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    They're not capable of cognitive thought.
    Really. Says who? That is a ridiculous load of crap and it is so presumptious of some humans to believe that their species is the only one capable of thoughts, feelings, etc. just because they don't fully understand other species. Different does not automatically equate to inferior.



  15. #35
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    Oct. 8, 2000
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    East of LA-LA Land, Calif.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1
    However the solution is not to NEVER trust the horse around men, rather the answer lies in exposing him to male company as much as possible... Make a point of asking every male who comes in or near the yard to talk to your horse...
    Note to Self: Next time husband's brother comes to visit, lead him directly to the stall of Old Shark Bait and tell him to pet the smiling horsie.



  16. #36
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    Mar. 14, 2004
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    Twenty years ago, friends who owned a multi-purpose horse farm gave me a horse (still have him, age 31 now!) -- in part because he bit someone. He was being ridden by a beginner on a trail ride. The horses got a bit too close to one another and he reached out to the horse next to him to warn him off. Unfortunately, he connected with the rider's leg.

    Luckily there was no lawsuit. My friends were in the midst of a trail riding lawsuit at the time, stemming from a person who broke his arm when he fell off a horse that tripped. Yes, tripped -- it didn't rear, buck, run away or (like my gentle dude) bare his teeth at another horse. It tripped. The case was thrown out of court but they had lawyer fees and a massive insurance increase. They shut down the trail riding business that year, after many years of uneventful fun.

    My Jesse was retired from the trail riding string. He and I have been living happily ever after, and he will take a carrot from the hand of a (SUPERVISED! OLDER!) child with lips so gentle they tickle.
    Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
    Starman



  17. #37
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    Feb. 6, 2000
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    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by evenstar
    Hope the horse is up to date on rabies vaccination. Usually, the quarantine rules only come into play if the authorities are worried about rabies. Still, I think the barn owner and horse owner are in for a wild ride.
    That may depend on geography.
    In MA, any animal that bites a person gets an automatic 10 day quarantine (if it is reported).
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  18. #38
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    May. 9, 2005
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    Chattanooga, Tennessee
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    My horse is an absolute gem. VERY easy to handle, very well mannered. However, if you were to pet his face, he WOULD probably nibble you, and if you let him continue..because its "cute! he's kissing!", you'd get bitten. Not because he's uncontrollable, but because said person would be allowing him to be misbehaved. Granted, he's 3 and still in the mouthy stage, but really, it is the fathers fault, in my eyes, because he was not responsible. And hell, if its not your horse, or you dont have EXPRESS permission...dont TOUCH IT. ugh.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 1999
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    Holland Township, NJ
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    It is absolutely absurd to think that a horse, regardless of training or past behavior, is not capable of hurting someone!!! Come on Thomas, wake up.

    Cases in point: A college buddy was standing on the opposite side of a fence from her horse, but fairly close to the fence. He managed to cow kick at a fly and get her right in the knee!! Go figure. Sliced it right open. she quickly wrapped it up in PINK vetrap and had a visiting friend take her to the hospital. The docs loved the pink bandage.

    Number 2: From an interesting tome on grooming racehorses, printed in the mid 50's, and I'm paraphrasing for sure. The author had a very lovely mild mannered broodie with a foal at her side. He stopped at her open dutch stall door to peek in and promptly got bitten in the face. Why? because baby nudged momma in the udder extra hard and he just happend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I don't care how sweet mannered your horse is, accidents happen. I nearly fed my thumb to my Red Head once while feeding him loose hay. I was slow and he wasn't! Lemme tell ya, he held onto that thumb for a few moments too.

    I wouldn't walk up to a strange dog and pet it, so why does the average idiot think it's perfectly fine to approach someone elses horse? Very presumptuous at any level.

    [FONT=Arial]And yes, personal responsiblity and well behaved children are a fadin' fast. I'm dreading the Fourth of July. I plan on having my family over to the farm as well as friends. My (adult)family will know enough to not feed their fingers to the horses, but my six year old niece and to a lesser extent my just turned four nephew are H$ll on wheels. They don't listen to any adults and think the entire world revolves around them. It should be really interesting.[/FONT]



  20. #40
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    Jun. 19, 2005
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    Poulsbo, WA
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    Gayla, I can understand your feelings about horses biting...I agree that horses should not bite at all. Still, I'd have a much easier time explaining to a child to stay some distance away from horses than I would with horses on not biting any human.
    Will get a dream horse!
    More riding, swimming, and rowing, less posting



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