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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2005
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    Maryland
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    620

    Unhappy Why do experienced riders snag the Novice classes!

    A tini wini tiny little vent! Went to a schooling show---a walk/trot show and let my TRUELY novice rider go for it in the hunter classes. She did great and we had fun but I just can't get over how some "novices" where so not! I realized with a shock that one of the riders and her horse were from a state equestrian team! They were pointed out to me at the pony club show last month by my trainer as a great team she has been watching for years. On the positive side I had my novice watch her to learn like at the pony club show but geezzzzz!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy123
    A tini wini tiny little vent! Went to a schooling show---a walk/trot show and let my TRUELY novice rider go for it in the hunter classes. She did great and we had fun but I just can't get over how some "novices" where so not! I realized with a shock that one of the riders and her horse were from a state equestrian team! They were pointed out to me at the pony club show last month by my trainer as a great team she has been watching for years. On the positive side I had my novice watch her to learn like at the pony club show but geezzzzz!
    What is the definition of "Novice" at these shows?

    I am a very EXPERIENCED rider, but I am still a "NOVICE" according to the USEF because I have not won 3 blue ribbons at a recognized show.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
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    15,278

    Default

    if unaffialiated you will find that novice can mean a noivce horse or pony

    or a rider that hasnt won things as a pair

    or a novice rider that hasnt the confidence to be any more than that
    just do low keyed stuff

    if how evera proffesional comes to noivce shows then more than likely
    they are schooling a novice horse for m future events had that happen loads of times but can be a bit off as they know how to present and make the horse look good in order to win--

    someimtes i think its a bit unfair when like me you take noivce kids to do stuff to learn only to bea by a proffesional shame really as they have there own status of classes to enter affliated which we can not unless its jumping then you have the chance to enter on a ticket but if you win cannot take the prize money if you arnt afiliated



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Yes, sometimes I think it would really make more sense to have separate divisions for Novice Riders and Novice Horses! Not that anyone wants their show day any longer, but I really think that an experienced rider has a definate advantage with a green/new-to-them horse vs a newby rider starting out.

    I am in this position myself, and I feel a little bad about competing against some of the riders in this type of division. I have ridden all my life, but not shown for many, many years, don't have my own horse and will be riding a school horse which I ride once a week. I dearly love showing, but no longer feel all that comfortable over larger jumps (especially with the horse I will be riding). However, I do feel that I have a bit of an unfair advantage over some of the young riders starting out.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2002
    Posts
    1,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Janet
    What is the definition of "Novice" at these shows?

    I am a very EXPERIENCED rider, but I am still a "NOVICE" according to the USEF because I have not won 3 blue ribbons at a recognized show.
    Ditto to that! I've been riding for 21 years but USEF says .. Feenikks is still a Novice!! Also in the locals on one circuit my horse can still ride pre-green at almost 11 years old and bunches of showing in between.. just the way it is..



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    3,002

    Default

    I do some of the novice hunter classes becasue it is the height my horse can and will jump. It completely depends on how the class list reads. I never enter unless I am truly eligible.

    I am now doing some beginner dressage because of some of the attitudes towards me showing in those divisions. I also have some pretty restrictive aggreements with my transplant doctors regarding what I will and what I will not do.

    Trust me, there are some days when getting us both around a novice course of 2'-2'3" is quite a challenge, for various reasons (his stopping, my health, etc)

    Given those challenges, I honestly feel that I deserve every ribbon I win.
    Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2005
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silk
    I do some of the novice hunter classes becasue it is the height my horse can and will jump. It completely depends on how the class list reads. I never enter unless I am truly eligible.

    I am now doing some beginner dressage because of some of the attitudes towards me showing in those divisions. I also have some pretty restrictive aggreements with my transplant doctors regarding what I will and what I will not do.

    Trust me, there are some days when getting us both around a novice course of 2'-2'3" is quite a challenge, for various reasons (his stopping, my health, etc)

    Given those challenges, I honestly feel that I deserve every ribbon I win.
    I promise that you don't get attitude from me at those shows which is why I said tini wini vent. It is just that beginning riders need that confidence boost sometimes so they feel like they accomplished something. I have noticed that more and more that is getting harder as the novice classes seem to have a few "ringers" who take all the ribbons and leave the newer riders pretty discouraged. It seems so unfair but I try to emphasize that it is not about the ribbons but about learning to ride better. That can be tough to explain to a 9 year old who was creamed by a few very experienced looking riders or a 13 year old who was creamed by several adults. Of course, who said life was fair either ;(



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    482

    Default

    I know someone who has been showing Adult Hunter FOREVER, like 20 years maybe. She is a good rider and has a nice horse and always wins.

    I wonder, Why don't people like this ever move on? Don't they get bored? They should let someone else win for a change. Move out of the 3-ft. division, please!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2003
    Location
    Newton, Mass.
    Posts
    2,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Jr. Hunter
    I know someone who has been showing Adult Hunter FOREVER, like 20 years maybe. She is a good rider and has a nice horse and always wins.

    I wonder, Why don't people like this ever move on? Don't they get bored? They should let someone else win for a change. Move out of the 3-ft. division, please!
    Perhaps her horse goes best in the 3 foot divisions (older, needs maintenance for example?). Perhaps she goes best in the 3 foot divisions (confidence issues at the 3'6"?) Who is to say why she's there?

    If someone were continuously haunting the 2'6" modified and cleaning clocks every weekend for 3 years, I might feel differently; but there are lots of reasons why people appropriately stay at 3 feet.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
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    4,524

    Default

    I'm of the opinion that if you can do 2'6" then you can do 3'. However, if you can do 3', you can not necessarily do 3'6". Those six inches are way tougher than the siz inches from 2'6" to 3'.

    Many ladies max out at the 3' and I'm fine with that. I'm still a young adult and I hope to have an A/O huner some day. When I'm an older adult, though, I'd rather keep riding and enjoy my old self at the 3' than practically kill myself every day at the 3'6". By then I'll deserve to just enjoy myself!!
    Quote Originally Posted by tidy rabbit View Post
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2005
    Location
    NJ
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    223

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    Well, My horse and I would be doing the next division at 2'6'' than of the 2' beginner division we do now, if only he was more reliable on his lead changes. My horse isn't ready to move up yet, and that's the only class that we can do. While I feel awful if I beat the younger truly beginner kids or adults, most of the people in these classes have been doing them for more seasons than me, and still don't move up.

    For example there is one rider at one of the local barns that holds several shows during the seasons. While I've seen them do the same class for years, I know that the kid's horse isn't capable of moving up, even though the kid is no longer a true "beginner". In actuality, around here a lot of the "beginners" aren't really beginners at all, which just makes it much more disheartening for a kid that is truly a beginner who is actually in the right class.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
    Location
    Neptune, NJ
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    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Jr. Hunter
    I know someone who has been showing Adult Hunter FOREVER, like 20 years maybe. She is a good rider and has a nice horse and always wins.

    I wonder, Why don't people like this ever move on? Don't they get bored? They should let someone else win for a change. Move out of the 3-ft. division, please!

    Beacue the next step up is 3'6" in the hunters and most people can't afford that
    There comes a point in every rider's life when she wonders if it's all worth it. Then one look at her horse, and she realizes - it is.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    3,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper
    I'm of the opinion that if you can do 2'6" then you can do 3'. However, if you can do 3', you can not necessarily do 3'6". Those six inches are way tougher than the siz inches from 2'6" to 3'.
    Not everyone can move up those 6 inches. I have a wonderful, candidate for sainthood heart of GOLD thoroughbred that I show in the pre adults (I still qualify because I don't have any blues at fences over 2'6 - only AT 2'6). Said horse is 21 years old and has arthritis - his 3'0 to a 3'0 wide oxer is ugly, nasty and if I miss my spot - sometimes not there. Honestly, I'd rather not try. At 2'6 he'll take it forwards, backwards or sideways and pack my skinny out of shape-sits-behind-a-desk-40-hours-a-week-butt around the course. I love showing my horse, he loves going to the shows, and no, I don't feel bad if I clean up in the 2'6 because the reason this horse is still CAPABLE of cleaning up is because I baby the heck out of him (my vet still can't believe he jumps sounds - he's convinced this horse is basically a freak of nature).

    I also let a high school girl show him in the equ u/s at the local shows - she's 4'11 - he's 17 hands (long story as to why he's the only experienced show horse avalible to her). She's only shown twice - both times on my horse - and they have won every class they've entered but one. The girl's a very nice rider, my horse is a saint on the flat - I'm sure if you don't know them they look like ringers, but really it's a girl who is new to the show ring being taught by a schoolmaster.

    That said - I do get annoyed when TRAINERS show in the Adult classes at local/schooling shows. If it's a novice horse class, that's one thing. But years ago one of my friends got beaten out for circuit champion of the Adult EQUITATION by a trainer - and we all felt it was a bit unfair - after all at any recognized show the division would have been amateur only. Considering that the horse was winning hunter classes as well (and not green hunter classes) I really doubt he needed the schooling...
    Sarah ( & Regal)

    what doesn't kill you makes you stronger -
    unless it breaks your heart first



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    135

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    I know of someone that was showing a schoolmaster in the 2'5" and winning. Also had a 1st Year Green horse that was winning on the A's. Child had a very hard time moving up to 3'. All horses were stopping and she was falling off left, right and center. Mom was really into winning. The took the 3'6" horse are going to local schooling shows and jumping 2'. Of course she's winning and Mom is happy. To some people the blue ribbon is what counts. Doesn't matter what division or where only that it is the right color



  15. #15
    lucylocket Guest

    Default

    Look it happens the world over - it's an anomaly that just has to be lived with. The adult riding club I belong to has regular dressage comps, however, these aren't really competitions as the same riders with the same horses keep entering the same beginner riding tests and winning and placing and the %'s just keep getting higher and higher! I thought at 70% to get a 4th was great so came back to the next one in the series thinking I might have a shot at another rosette (out of 20 odd riders). Well, was I mistaken. Might as well have been two classes. One for those who have their horses professionally schooled for them in between times and who are definitely WAAAAY past where my OTT TB is (he raced only 14 months ago). And my 76% (a good improvement on the first) at the second show was pathetic - the winners were getting in the mid-high 80's. So go figure! They should be moving up to prelim/novice as their horses are very capable of it (I know, we all live and ride in the same area) but NOOOOOO, they're happy ribbon robbing. Also in showing ... a "Green Horse Show" which would to me say a young (7yo) OTT TB in his first year of competition (like my horse) . Nooooo said the rules - a "Green Horse" and/or rider was any combination that DIDN'T have up to 6 ribbons at A&P (top level local agricultural society-posh-nobby) shows. In otherwords, I could have competed against horses that had competed at OPEN level on the flat but not actually won. How fair is that?

    Mind you, cultural differences come into it - in NZ here, a blue is only second! Red is first



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,278

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    dd-- thats the mums and parents -- i have always tuaght debs to go in and try its not winning thats just a bonus if you do but to try thats the important thing -- and to the lesson that i teach that go if they dont win we make them so happy becuase we really welcome the fact that they tried hard and so encoruage them becuase they did --



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2002
    Posts
    1,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Jr. Hunter
    I know someone who has been showing Adult Hunter FOREVER, like 20 years maybe. She is a good rider and has a nice horse and always wins.

    I wonder, Why don't people like this ever move on? Don't they get bored? They should let someone else win for a change. Move out of the 3-ft. division, please!
    We do move on... that is to dressage, hunter pace, X country and of course, western!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
    Location
    Eastern Shore, MD
    Posts
    551

    Default I hate complaints like this...

    I train a bunch of kids and ponies. One student wins every single walk/trot class at the shows. Other trainers have asked why I don't move her up. Well, the truth is that she is 7 yrs old and terrified to canter with a group. I would not risk this child's safety in order for other kids to win a blue in the walk/trot division. You don't always know the story behind the winners...



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2003
    Location
    Virginia Hunt Country
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Jr. Hunter
    I know someone who has been showing Adult Hunter FOREVER, like 20 years maybe. She is a good rider and has a nice horse and always wins.

    I wonder, Why don't people like this ever move on? Don't they get bored? They should let someone else win for a change. Move out of the 3-ft. division, please!
    Because the adult amatuers classes are on the weekend and the Amatuer/Owner classes are during the week. Being amatuers some of them have jobs that don't allow them to take off during the week.
    "I am sorry, I lead a bit of a complex life, things don't always happen in the right order" The Doctor



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2006
    Location
    New Start
    Posts
    230

    Default Novice or not?

    First and formost, hunter/jumper shows are all show. Maybe the "novice" entry needed an ego boost. Sorry if I am offending those of you that ride in these shows, but it is really toooooooo darn political! Let those that are really "NOVCE" all around enter into their own division and or create a division that they can be competitive in. In the world of eventing there are classes set up for Novice Rider/Novice Horse/Open Novice (for trainers) etc. This makes it FAIR! What a concept, maybe the H/J world needs to put ther ego's aside and figure out a way to help others and not just worry about who has the most $$$$. Other horse sports laugh at the H/J world, sorry to break it to ya guys, but its a fact!


    Quote Originally Posted by Wendy123
    A tini wini tiny little vent! Went to a schooling show---a walk/trot show and let my TRUELY novice rider go for it in the hunter classes. She did great and we had fun but I just can't get over how some "novices" where so not! I realized with a shock that one of the riders and her horse were from a state equestrian team! They were pointed out to me at the pony club show last month by my trainer as a great team she has been watching for years. On the positive side I had my novice watch her to learn like at the pony club show but geezzzzz!



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