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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
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    45 min W of Pittsburgh Pa
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    Flame suit zipped and ready.



    I WAS this kid once.

    I thought my parents owed me this or that because of the horrible shit I had to live through with them as my parents. I had the same sense of entitlement and just couldn't understand why things couldn't just be handed to me for the rest of my life. Work? Who wanted to work? I wanted to play with the horsies, not WORK.

    Best thing I EVER learned was that NOBODY owes me anything, and if I want something, I have to go get it. And the 2nd best thing is that LIFE ISN'T FAIR. There are no guarantees of fairness in life. NONE.

    My father is a millionaire and could buy me any dream I wanted - his mantra was "You will ONLY truly appreciate what you have if you earn it yourself." And he is oh so right. I get $100 twice a year from him - birthday and xmas. He owes me nothing. And I wouldnt dare DREAM of asking for anything else. I spent 2 months living next to Timonium racetrack (15mins from where the Preakness was held yesterady) in an Econolodge, scraping change out of my car seats and floors to buy a cup of chili at the local grocery store to have something warm to eat. It really made me evaluate if I wanted to do the racehorses for a living. And it helps me to appreciate now that things aren't as difficult as they were back then.

    Long story short - become your own self sufficient person. Don't rely on others to do for you. Go get what you want for yourself - it will be that much more meaningful to you and set a good pattern for the REST of your life. Don't make excuses and whine about why others wont do for you what you think they should. Even if it's family - sometimes our families use the tough love on us more effectively than we care to admit. I wish you all the best. Life can be very very hard sometimes. Hugs from me, even if you dont want them. I feel for ya kiddo.
    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2005
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    St. Simons Island, GA
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    6,466

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue
    Her parents won't fork over dough to a self absorbed, immature almost 18 year old and now she's abused and needs to "turn them in"? To who?
    This isn't the first time you've put words in my mouth or changed the situation to suit yourself. Please don't do that again, it's irritating. Not to mention, "self absorbed" and "immature"?

    I mentioned turning the parents in for abuse. Not money. And I said that initially I was taking her word for it about the abuse. Basically my message was "suck it up" or turn them in.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobie cat
    Flame suit zipped and ready.



    I WAS this kid once.

    I thought my parents owed me this or that because of the horrible shit I had to live through with them as my parents. I had the same sense of entitlement and just couldn't understand why things couldn't just be handed to me for the rest of my life. Work? Who wanted to work? I wanted to play with the horsies, not WORK.

    Best thing I EVER learned was that NOBODY owes me anything, and if I want something, I have to go get it. And the 2nd best thing is that LIFE ISN'T FAIR. There are no guarantees of fairness in life. NONE.

    My father is a millionaire and could buy me any dream I wanted - his mantra was "You will ONLY truly appreciate what you have if you earn it yourself." And he is oh so right. I get $100 twice a year from him - birthday and xmas. He owes me nothing. And I wouldnt dare DREAM of asking for anything else. I spent 2 months living next to Timonium racetrack (15mins from where the Preakness was held yesterady) in an Econolodge, scraping change out of my car seats and floors to buy a cup of chili at the local grocery store to have something warm to eat. It really made me evaluate if I wanted to do the racehorses for a living. And it helps me to appreciate now that things aren't as difficult as they were back then.

    Long story short - become your own self sufficient person. Don't rely on others to do for you. Go get what you want for yourself - it will be that much more meaningful to you and set a good pattern for the REST of your life. Don't make excuses and whine about why others wont do for you what you think they should. Even if it's family - sometimes our families use the tough love on us more effectively than we care to admit. I wish you all the best. Life can be very very hard sometimes. Hugs from me, even if you dont want them. I feel for ya kiddo.
    Didn't all this make you kinda hard inside? I truly believe that parents at least owe their children unconditional love - otherwise why have kids in the first place?



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
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    45 min W of Pittsburgh Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide
    Didn't all this make you kinda hard inside? I truly believe that parents at least owe their children unconditional love - otherwise why have kids in the first place?
    Should we all be emotional marshmallows crying about how miserable our lives are?

    Or should we do something to fix it and move on?

    Dont we need to grow up a little bit and take some responsibility for ourselves?

    Unconditional love? What does unconditional love have to do with paying for riding lessons or other things a child feels they need to have? Just because my 3 year old wants to drink soda instea of milk do I let him because I love him unconditionally? Because the 1 yo wants to climb on top of the bathroom cabinets should I let her? Joey, 13, wants to go run around with older friends, should I allow him because he is a child of divorce? Lauren, 11, would love to sit in front of the tv whenever she isnt in school or in the barn, do I indulge her because she is such a great student and wonderful kid?

    NO.

    Its called "parenting" and "being a parent" instead of a friend. Sometimes it really sucks. It is EASIER to let them do what they want. It is harder to be a parent.

    BTR do you have kids of your own?
    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne



  5. #45
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    Nov. 7, 2002
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    Central FL
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    5,258

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowpony
    Also, why can't your MOM teach you to drive?
    Dad controls the entire universe.

    AA ... based only on what you write, your instincts are right -- you're not asking for unreasonable support. That doesn't mean you're going to get it. It's one of those "life sucks really bad sometimes" situations. Fairness, equality, reasonableness ... those aren't values that your parents are going to walk the walk on. Dono't expect any encouragement or support for all your achievements from them. Find a way to stay connected to what you understand to be right in the world and don't take it personally when your messed up sister gets more support from them.

    Take the advice of everyone who says that you need to develop your adult living skills, get yourself to university, out of the house, and as much as possible, separate yourself from relying on your parents for financial (or emotional) support.

    And don't expect them to LIKE your increased independence from their control, either.

    Good luck.
    *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
    Dressage becomes art when it is a joy for the horse. -KBH

    Mighty Thoroughbred Clique Now on Facebook ... ... show the loff



  6. #46
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Anyone of you who think she should not be supported in this , what would you do if you did not have a driver's license and a car??
    I'd ride my bike to work. I'd carpool with co-workers. I'd ask my working friends if where-ever they work needs another employee and then carpool with them. I'd take the course as a babysitter and start wroking all hours not spent at school as a babysitter...a certified and responsible sitter in suburban areas is wanted more than enough for the parents to come pick them up. And with summer coming up...a 25% less fee than most day-care and day camps charge will net a well paying family to have their kids watched at home since they save too. In other words...I'd do the same things I did and then same things my older girls did when they were that age. (well, when they were younger than that age) Neither of my grown girls got cars or even a license until 18. They still had jobs and got around without me doing it for them. That's part of being a responsible and caring parent instead of an enabling one. Blind, across the board "support" doesn't include being a chauffer nor a bank account past a certain age. It does more harm than good. When grown children hit adult age and go off to college or out into the world...they do much better on their own and are much more responsible making less dingbat types of mistakes (and end up in less debt) if their parents started introducing them to life's realities at an earlier age. My 13 year old works, here at home but she works above and beyond her normal "chores" if she wants expensive privileges. She also doesn't get an allowance...her regular chores are part of contributing to the family and the home...not a paid "extra." I have a list of extras she can do that include a pay scale too. If she wants a new CD, a shopping trip to the mall, a new bridle for our horse...she has to do her regular chores and then do extra "work" to pay for her extras. We could afford cars for our girls...we chose not to. They bought their own after college. My job as a parent is getting my children ready, WILLING and able to participate and contribute to society by adult age on their own. It's not providing them "stuff" they deem necessary, it's showing them how to get the "stuff" they deem necessary. Did my girls get yelled at? You betcha. Did I owe them more for yelling at them? Nope. Verbal abuse does indeed happen...but I don't think it happens on the scale most teens assume it does. Teens are a tad more sensitive and construe many of life's normal things as unfair or abusive. Heck...I remember my first real paycheck was thought of as abusive because taxes were taken out.
    I don't think this particular teen is overly emotional...but might be normally teen-emotional. Parents raising their voices and refusing to pay for extras doesn't sound like actual verbal abuse to me. Being upset over the father buying himself stuff with either his own or his wife's income isn't "unfair." At some point in most marriages one spouse is a breadwinner and if it's affordable the breadwinner doesn't begrudge the non-paid spouse stuff. It might seem unfair to the teen...especially if she's closer to one parent than the other. But what is unfair is a family member expecting a certain portion of the breadwinner's income to be a battle for which other family member gets to spend it on extras. Maybe MOM wants to save some income or spend it on...oh, I dunno...Mom?
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  7. #47
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Well, keep in mind that if you are located in urban Texas somewhere riding your bike to work might not be a feasible option. She may also not be allowed to ride with other people, as it can be with controlling parents - been there, done that, although I sure hope that's not the case here.



  8. #48
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    She did say she was in a suburban area. Means neighborhoods, houses and families. You can walk or bike to do lawn jobs, housecleaning and babysitting. At 15 both my older girls were babysitting full time all summer, making enough to bank and help support their car savings or shopping habits in the school months. They'd have to wait to swim, hang out or ride after work like most people do...but they did well and they both walked or biked to jobs. They wore raincoats when it rained. They both mowed lawns, tended gardens, weeded flower beds. They washed dogs and did pet sitting. And they cleaned houses for the elderly or the homes with two parents working full time. All that during the school year. All walking within their neighborhoods. If there's a will, there's a way. Parents, IMO, make everythinga tad too easy on teens these days...giving them anywhere from a small to a large sense of entitlement and letting them believe that "stuff" equals support or love. Instead of focusing on things she can't do...focus on things she can. Constantly giving her "reasons" and "excuses" why she shouldn't have to do something isn't going to help. We cannot change her parents' attitudes from this BB. But we *can* give her ideas and plans to implement herself so she can change things. Enabling never helps anyone. Giving them the ideas, tools and typed "verbal support" that she can indeed change things to suit herself is more of a help than patting her back and saying 'there, there, you're right. It' not fair.'
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Cool Nicely put, as usual, MistyBlue!

    And does anyone else find it interesting that the OP hasn't responded since posters offeringl good advice (instead of the "There, there, sweetie!" variety) have started pouring in?

    I'm still waiting to find out how this paragon attends two schools, has found time to write a novel ( ), works two days a week, and doesn't drive. No answer to that query yet.

    Troll, anyone?
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  10. #50
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    Jul. 23, 2004
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    947

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    kiddo, your parents are paying for you to have a horse! I don't think you've got anything to complain about. Time to stop depending on them and becoming independent. Get yourself a bicycle and get to the barn under your own power (or the bus stop - half hour on foot? That should take you 10 min on a bike).

    Gosh, forgive me, but you sound whiny. My parents never carted my butt anywhere, nor did they pay for anything outside food and clothing. I rode my bike to the barn (15 miles) and rode buses etc. You can do it! Being independent comes with some inconveniences, but you'll still feel soooo much better for it.

    Good luck



  11. #51
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    First of all, let me warn you that there are a lot of people on this board that think if anyone under 18 who is living at home has S*** to say about anything their parents do or not do, they are a bad kid and should just suck it up. So my first advice is, ignore those people. I personally would like to sometime precede one of these posts with a poll about who responding actually has human children of their own, I think the answer would be fascinating and revealing.

    My second advice is, do what you have to do to get your drivers license, get a job and get out. You are obviously a bright, mature, articulate girl who your parents should be viewing as a credit to their genes and child raising skills, and instead they chose to not support you and leave you between the rock and the hard place. The only harsh reality you may have to face, IMO, is that not all parents are very good at parenting. The other reality you will face is that you will succeed in spite of their lack of support and lack of supporting parenting.

    My helmet is off to you and I wish the very best for you. Pat yourself on the back for how well you have done so far, keep striving, and don't let anyone else take credit for the happy, successful life you are going to have.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide
    Didn't all this make you kinda hard inside? I truly believe that parents at least owe their children unconditional love - otherwise why have kids in the first place?
    Thank you for saying this BTR. I was wondering that myself. Why is being some type of hard-ass considered a virtue in parenting? Look at the vitriol dished by people who were parented this way.. it's disturbing. I guess that is what they learned and don't know any other way or any better.



  13. #53
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    Default I'd say this is a TROLL, except

    I have a stepniece very much like the OP. Very, very, very smart and an over achiever for lack of a better term. Also had major problems with step dad number one and step dad number two (my BIL). To the point of causing legal, financial and marital problems for my BIL.

    If the bottom line of the OP was needing $25 on short notice for a lesson that your Mom wouldn't lend you there is always the option of asking this trainer to bill you. It is true that you could stiff the trainer legally as a minor but most likely a contract was signed by one of the parents long ago.

    As far as the rest of it, I am sorry, but start using that intelligent and inventive mind to find a way to get a job, license and car quick because you have only till you are 18 and then they owe you nothing. And you won't have to go to court to get away from them either.
    "congratulations on becoming a free citizen ..., entitled to taxation, military service and starvation without let or hindrance" Rob't Heinlein, 'Citizen of the Galaxy'
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  14. #54
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG
    And does anyone else find it interesting that the OP hasn't responded since posters offeringl good advice (instead of the "There, there, sweetie!" variety) have started pouring in?

    I'm still waiting to find out how this paragon attends two schools, has found time to write a novel ( ), works two days a week, and doesn't drive. No answer to that query yet.

    Troll, anyone?
    Even if the OP is trolling, there are so many other people reading this, it may strike a cord with somebody else...

    BTW a person who tells the spouse to get them what ever they want whenever is a jackass and needs the sh*t kicked out of them! *the spouse as well if in copliance!)

    There is a lot of this mental abuse going around...

    And if indeed the scenario is for real, Daddy Dearest has some issues...he will never aknowledge the OPs effords to educate herself, because he did not or could not! And Mom is a doormat for Dad...

    The OP needs to grow up and get out...no doubt, but she is entitled to feel hurt when the parents go back on their promisses repeatedly. Or if dad is such a jerk causing her mental and physical harm.

    Sell what you can sell, get the drivers license and a car that is paid in full right away...and affordable, gas and insurance, because my guess, as soon as she turns 18 she will be on her own...

    (But I sure would like to hear Dad's side as well!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  15. #55
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    Jan. 25, 2004
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    Charlotte, NC, USA
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    The day of my 16th birthday, my parents told me that they would no longer support any of my horse habits- show fees, lesson charges, nothing. So...I got a job (walked to work 1/2hr each way) and started braiding for show money, catch-riding whenever possible and spent hours upon hours working off my lesson fees. 24 yrs later and I don't regret it a bit. I learned more in those few years working hard than I ever would have if they paid the bills.

    For my own barn, I refuse to clean my own tack nor will I braid anyone. Did that enough in my life! Now, my students do it all to keep lesson and board costs down and they love thinking that they are helping out.

    Surely, someone somewhere needs a pet sitter, baby sitter, lawn cut, house cleaned, pool skimmed or something. There's always odd jobs to be had in any neighborhood.



  16. #56
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    May. 15, 2006
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    MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer
    First of all, let me warn you that there are a lot of people on this board that think if anyone under 18 who is living at home has S*** to say about anything their parents do or not do, they are a bad kid and should just suck it up. So my first advice is, ignore those people. I personally would like to sometime precede one of these posts with a poll about who responding actually has human children of their own, I think the answer would be fascinating and revealing.

    My second advice is, do what you have to do to get your drivers license, get a job and get out. You are obviously a bright, mature, articulate girl who your parents should be viewing as a credit to their genes and child raising skills, and instead they chose to not support you and leave you between the rock and the hard place. The only harsh reality you may have to face, IMO, is that not all parents are very good at parenting. The other reality you will face is that you will succeed in spite of their lack of support and lack of supporting parenting.

    My helmet is off to you and I wish the very best for you. Pat yourself on the back for how well you have done so far, keep striving, and don't let anyone else take credit for the happy, successful life you are going to have.

    You fricking rock! (:



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
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    Default This sounds so familiar...

    ... like a variation on my childhood! Looking back I can see from an adult's perspective what I should/could have done differently, but when you're 17 or 18 it's huge and overwhelming. {{{{huges}}}}}

    The main difference was that we were on bus routes, and I COULD / did get a job, but all the money went into school.

    Learning to drive from my father? NO WAY. He was so controlling and abusive growing up that I haven't spoken to him as an adult. I was the one with a full course load (and good grades!), and an almost FT job. Desperatly wished there was a horse in there, but my parents wouldn't let me a) buy a car, b) use their car, or c) give me a lift once I was a teenager. I've always been the over-acheiver-push-myself-to-the-edge type, and even today I work often 50-60 hours a week. Still paying off student loans, and don't have time to ride, but I realized that it's what makes me happy, so I make it work.

    I'm assuming you're involved in a concurrent HS-College program (to the doubters, YES, they do exist, and you have to be a pretty amazing student to be allowed to participate).

    I don't think you're whining at all - I feel for you! If you're family is like mine (and I'm seeing a lot of parallels) you're going to have to take matters into your own hands.

    - The posters who said "look local" for work are right. There are some legit work from home opportunities sometimes too, but be careful as there are a lot of scams.

    - The other good place to look is at the college - a lot of college's employ students, and they're even sometimes structured so that you can spend 1-2 hours as available between classes etc. I did this in my final year of university and realized that it was a huge weight off my shoulders not to have to go to a different location to work.

    - DO NOT LET YOUR FAMILY, ESPECIALLY YOUR FATHER, TEACH YOU HOW TO DRIVE. 'nuff said.

    - What are your long-term plans for your horse? Is he a keeper or a resale project? He sounds a bit young/green for part-lease, but if he's for sale down the line could he be a "shared project" with someone?

    - Find someone, an ADULT, to talk to. A sounding board from someone who knows the details is helpful. They don't necessarily need to give advice, they just have to listen. Don't get them personally involved; let them be a neutral listener. It's easy to blow things out of proportion when you're that age, but it's also easy to miss the obvious.

    All the best! It sounds like you have a bright future, but please take care of yourself and don't burn out.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."



  18. #58
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Originally Posted by BornToRide
    Didn't all this make you kinda hard inside? I truly believe that parents at least owe their children unconditional love - otherwise why have kids in the first place?
    Thank you for saying this BTR. I was wondering that myself. Why is being some type of hard-ass considered a virtue in parenting? Look at the vitriol dished by people who were parented this way.. it's disturbing. I guess that is what they learned and don't know any other way or any better.

    Maybe I'm not understanding correctly...but Hobie cat did say that even though her parents are well to do they insisted on her doing for herself...and she was also supportive sounding in her post to the OP that stating that she found life a tad bit easier by doing for herself and wishing her luck.
    I do believe her post points out how her parents did give her unconditional love by being emotionally supportive...just not financially supportive. I don't see it as being some sort of hard-ass. I don't see teaching your children to live without parental financial support as being a hard ass...but as being more reality supportive rather than enabling a lifestyle or mindset that things come to those who want them without working towards it or some sacrifice. I'm not saying don't support the horsie habit for an 8 year old...but financially supporting the habit/hobby of a 17 year old beyond the normal board and care costs for owning a horse seems counter-productive to raising and teaching a young adult to be self supportive for their wants as opposed to their actual needs.
    I also don't see it as disturbing vitriol by people who were raised by "hard ass" parents. I just don't see teaching responsibility as hard assed. Yes, the OP seems like a very good kid. Many kids are very good kids..by the original post I would guess this teen falls into good kid category. It doesn't mean because the child is a good kid that the child is given a by to get whatever unnecessary extra they deem worthy. It does seem to the OP that finding work without a car seems impossible. Many on here took the opportunity to tell her of ways/things she *can* do without a car to make an incoem so she can afford that $25 lesson she wants. If I were still 17, I'd find those posts so much more helpful than scads of well meaning posts telling me I'm right to feel upset that I'm not getting what I want just because I was born and my parents have incomes and I deserve more because they yell at me. I would think help instead of back patting would be more productive. I'm guessing the nice teen who wrote the original post is feeling a bit emotional as a normal would be since she didn't post "I don't have a job yet nor my driver's license. I'm uncomfortable learning to drive from my parents and need to make some sort of income soon to support some equine activities. Any suggestions?" Instead she posted scads of personal family history and information, even if under an alter moniker, designed to evoke sympathy and agreement instead of actual solutions. Not much of that info had anything to do with her situation of needing ways to make money...it seemed to be excuses as to why she couldn't make her own money. Myself and other posters were trying to let her know she could indeed make money, ways to do it and wished her good luck in doing so. Kinda like teaching a timid rider to do something...constantly giving in to their excuses why a canter is scary and just agreeing with them that yes, it is scary means they'll never canter comfortably. We're not saying yell at the student...teach them.
    I'm sure many of us "hard ass" parents do know other ways to parent. And we're not using them because they don't work. They might make for deliriously happy, well provisioned teens for a short term...and inevitably lead to confused and angry young adults once they get out into the real world and end up not "getting it." Being a teen is 6 very short, very formative years. Making that short time psan even harder is that teens are also at their most emotional. Being an adult is the rest of their life...and the habits and thought processes carried into adulthood are formed and groomed and started in their teen years. Caring parents who do love absolutely unconditionally make sure kids leave the teen years feeling loved and able to care for themselves. I've seen many, many young adults who had full financial support without much responsibility get into all sorts of sticky situations once on their own.
    I adore my children...they're my life. My mother adored her children...they were her life. We all took our life's responsibilities seriously and helped our teens out when they needed it (although at the time they didn't want it) by teaching them how life works. There were few surprises once any of these generations hit the road on their own. I'm guessing "hard assed" parents who don't act like the present fairy work out well since they've raised generations of happy, well adjusted people who aren't the whiny ones online.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  19. #59
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    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide
    Didn't all this make you kinda hard inside? I truly believe that parents at least owe their children unconditional love - otherwise why have kids in the first place?
    Unconditional love does NOT require unconditional financial support or even unconditional emotional support IF the choices made by the kid aren't good ones.

    I am sympathetic to the OP's situation BUT ... I can also see the parents' concerns about the kid not having gotten a regular job or a driver's license. I would not support a horse under those circumstances either.

    My stepson is living proof of the damage that over-indulgent parents can do to kids with their "unconditional love" and lack of reasonable expectations. When I met him, he was 10 and had no concept about helping around the house, picking up after himiself, doing basic chores like laundry, putting out the trash, or even putting his dirty plates into the dishwasher. (I have been the "bad guy" who has taught him - and required him - to learn these things.) It is no surprise that he doesn't study much or pay attention in class... he's never been taught about discipline or the rewards that come from doing something as well as possible instead of as quickly/easily as possible...even if that means the job is done poorly. What kind of life will this kid have?

    I am NOT comparing this directly to the OP's situation (good grades, ambition, help around the house etc) but just pointing out that children who are handed $$$ for whatever they ask for (and I would put lessons and horses into the luxury category.)
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    Cool

    And still no reply from the OP.

    Here, trollie, trollie, trollie, trollie............................
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



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