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  1. #161
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    I did not!!!!!!! I asked a simple question....where does this happen? I don't doubt that it did...it is just so beyond anything tolerable that I wonder if it is in the deep south or what? You see me as a racist...nothing I say will change that. You can't believe that someone TRULY looks at people for who they are. There has to be some taint there, somewhere. So let's go with "she doesn't even know it"...ya, hard to defend myself against that one.

    I had an acquaintance who had a leg amputated. She told me all kinds of stories about people pushing her down and laughing at her; slipping on the floor and falling down...people laughing at her; people pointing to her lack of leg and saying "ewwww" and running away. Did that happen to her? I don't know..I have her word for it. But, really, have you ever experienced anything like that? To yourself or others?

    You may be right and that racism is kept under covers where I live. But isn't that what all of you do, who admit you are racist to a point? Behave well, try to not let it show? Don't use the "words", etc. You all say you are privvy to your own bias and yet you don't show it. What is so wrong about other people doing the same thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    You just did it again. You just belittled those who came forward with personal experiences with discrimination. Institutional racism is a proven fact in study after study...just because it may be more insidious and less obvious where you live doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    Ride like you mean it.


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  2. #162
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    @ Bluey: Assume? All I did was pose questions to suggest why you might want to reconsider that some formal dictionary definition is the be all-end all.
    But glad you are willing to appease the picky.
    Last edited by Zonderpaard; Aug. 22, 2014 at 02:10 PM. Reason: can't seem to use the quote function!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    Actually, my white friends who married black people were and still are hassled by both whites and blacks. Ditto my black friends married to white people, they too were and are still hassled by both whites and blacks. Racism is everywhere. I've been called out by whites for having too many black friends. And I've been called out by blacks for dating bigots....uh when you are a white female, you wouldn't have many dates if you didn't date some bigots! You cannot change the minds of people who are afraid of losing their place in society. You can only tolerate the abuse. And I've lived in Savannah, Atlanta, Staunton, VA., Athens GA, Sunbury PA, St Louis, and Berkeley Calif (I think that's all the places I've lived.) Same old same old. When we had the rioting in Atlanta after the Rodney King verdicts, my public defender who was Jamaican went to the Presby church daycare to pick up her baby and headed for the central MARTA train station. She was hassled by blacks for having a "white" baby. Her husband was white. The issue of racism is like the issue of religion: There will never be a solution. When I first arrived in Berkeley Calif way back when, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the black panthers were accepted by all the whites as equals. And then I found out that both the whites and blacks all said that the hispanics were lazy and criminals, etc. All the crap our politicians in GA fed us about blacks. So it's all a matter of one group dissing another group to make itself seem better. Like some of my black friends and white friends don't like Jews. I think wow, if people would just chose their friends blindfolded, maybe there wouldn't be all this crap we're fed by politicians. Racism is everywhere. As is sexism.


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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

    I had an acquaintance who had a leg amputated. She told me all kinds of stories about people pushing her down and laughing at her; slipping on the floor and falling down...people laughing at her; people pointing to her lack of leg and saying "ewwww" and running away. Did that happen to her? I don't know..I have her word for it. But, really, have you ever experienced anything like that? To yourself or others?
    Yes, watch people when they interact with someone in a wheel chair for instance. They tend to talk to the person accompanying the wheelchair instead of the person in the wheelchair...I guess they assume if you're physically handicapped you must be mentally addled as well.


    You may be right and that racism is kept under covers where I live. But isn't that what all of you do, who admit you are racist to a point? Behave well, try to not let it show? Don't use the "words", etc. You all say you are privvy to your own bias and yet you don't show it. What is so wrong about other people doing the same thing?
    But you haven't admitted that you have bias...at least not that I've seen. You appear (from my perspective) to be going out of your way to give examples that aren't discrimination. Why? Why not just acknowledge that it's a problem...and a big one?

    As far as not using words, or being "PC" which some of you (don't know if it is you) seems to think that's a problem...that's what my Grandmother called manners.

    For instance, you found it necessary to post this, which completely discounts the OPs take on what happened...why?

    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I got to thinking about the ATM incident. It's possible there were other reasons for the woman to back out of the way and let you "play through".

    I'm not good with numbers and have NEVER done an ATM transaction. I can see me at the ATM, being befuddled and confused (I don't see well either) and not wanting to make someone wait for me to figure things out.

    When we have a particular prism through which we view life as we know it, it tends to taint everything. I am guilty of thinking nobody likes me so I view ordinary behavior on others as proof that they don't like me. In nearly every situation, it's simply a matter of them being busy with their own lives and if guilty of anything, it's of not noticing me or having ANY opinion.

    I have to be careful to not judge people based on my prism.
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


    12 members found this post helpful.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    The origination of the term "thug" came from Tupac Shakir, he was a rap star in the 1990s, and was involved in some fighting between the east and west coast rappers at the time (hence hearing "west coast! or "east coast!" in many rap songs during that era), he was shot in Las Vegas in a drive by and many think it was done by Notorious B.I.G (although many others swear Tupac is alive today).

    So if you want to learn what you are talking about I suggest you read a little about ole 2PAC since he defined the word THUG and the meaning of the "THUG LIFE"
    This is not true. I've recently been reading old British murder mysteries, and the term "thug" is used in books from the 1950's. It comes from "thugee", which I believe derives from India, so the Brits would be far more likely to have adopted the term.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugee
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    This is not true. I've recently been reading old British murder mysteries, and the term "thug" is used in books from the 1950's. It comes from "thugee", which I believe derives from India, so the Brits would be far more likely to have adopted the term.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugee
    Wow! Well, that explains the use of it in the article I linked from the UK then And lends insight into common usage today and why some folks think it is a racial term and some do not.

    I was a teen in the 80sand in my 20s for the 90s. I always assume that I know all the stuff from that time and it is, of course, the origins of everything

    Thanks.
    The Knotted Pony

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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    That would depend on what your definition of "anything disparaging" would be.

    For example, this comment?


    Would be judged as outright racist in many circles. There is an expectation that minorities need to behave well to "represent" their whole race, which does not apply to whites - if some white asshats riot, there are generally no condemnations about them behaving "stereotypically white" or showing their people in a bad light or anything like that. There might be comments about stupid soccer fans or frat boys, but their behavior is not tied to some kind of stereotypical "white" behavior.

    When black peopel riot? Boom, why are they behaving so stereotypically black, don't they know they're harming race relations, if I was black I would be ashamed of their behavior, etc. Very very common. You're doing it.
    And maybe in your community, saying something like that goes unchallenged, so you don't even realize that elsewhere it would be considered simply, frankly racist.


    (Your kid, btw, is complaining about possible favoritism of a parent between their 2 kids, not "discrimination." Then again, if parental favoritism is redefined as discrimination in your community...how do ya'll define racism?)
    Ahem, I would say, there is plenty times people of other nationalities and races point out "others", including "white" behavior, but you may not have heard it.

    I see that here reflected in the people South of the border, that some make plenty of racist comments ... about white people.
    I overheard those also by black people while in Alabama, where many grooms were black.

    I do understand what you say, it is terrible to brand people any one way as any kind of "bad" because of what race or other they are different than others, not for their good or bad human qualities.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by french fry View Post
    Can anyone in find some examples of the word "thug" used in reference to a white person that is not based on perceived emulation of black attire/mannerisms/way of speaking in a US-based news source?

    I am genuinely curious.
    Thug has been used for decades to refer to anyone who disregards the law and personal space. During the US Prohibition period, Thug was used to identify those running booze and protecting the booze runners.
    Actors James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart and others whose names escape me now played gansters/thugs in their early movies.
    Definition of thug from merriam-webster dictionary.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
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    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Actually, my white friends who married black people were and still are hassled by both whites and blacks. Ditto my black friends married to white people, they too were and are still hassled by both whites and blacks. Racism is everywhere. I've been called out by whites for having too many black friends. And I've been called out by blacks for dating bigots....uh when you are a white female, you wouldn't have many dates if you didn't date some bigots! You cannot change the minds of people who are afraid of losing their place in society. You can only tolerate the abuse. And I've lived in Savannah, Atlanta, Staunton, VA., Athens GA, Sunbury PA, St Louis, and Berkeley Calif (I think that's all the places I've lived.) Same old same old. When we had the rioting in Atlanta after the Rodney King verdicts, my public defender who was Jamaican went to the Presby church daycare to pick up her baby and headed for the central MARTA train station. She was hassled by blacks for having a "white" baby. Her husband was white. The issue of racism is like the issue of religion: There will never be a solution. When I first arrived in Berkeley Calif way back when, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the black panthers were accepted by all the whites as equals. And then I found out that both the whites and blacks all said that the hispanics were lazy and criminals, etc. All the crap our politicians in GA fed us about blacks. So it's all a matter of one group dissing another group to make itself seem better. Like some of my black friends and white friends don't like Jews. I think wow, if people would just chose their friends blindfolded, maybe there wouldn't be all this crap we're fed by politicians. Racism is everywhere. As is sexism.
    So very true CnC! When in London during the 1970's the Irish were the problem. A friend with an Irish born Mother and English born Father recounted how his father passed through English customs no problem while his Mother was delayed for almost one full day. During the summer some young kids came in for several weeks of focused riding training. All of the Brits doted on the Italian kids. All of the Brits trashed the one French kid (the "stinky" frog he was called). When visiting and living in various western states - the problem was almost always the Hispanics. ex-DH is from the Mass coast, the problem there was the Portuguese. His family was aghast that he was marrying a Southerner.

    Prejudice is everywhere and in everyone. It varies only in the what causes one group to dislike another.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #170
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    Why is it important to you that I admit something that isn't true. At least not in this regard. I have a bias against laziness, my German background, but I don't limit that bias to any particular group of people. I have many biases, race just isn't one of them. I don't know why you think that is impossible. That I just like people.

    And my example of that ATM was not to "completely discount" Dr. Rider's experience but to offer another explanation. Wouldn't it be better if I had been right and there WAS no racism in the incident. She explained further and there can't be any other reason. Why are your panties in a wad over it?

    I'm sorry you can't accept the fact that not all people are racist. What would you lose if you did?



    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    But you haven't admitted that you have bias...at least not that I've seen. You appear (from my perspective) to be going out of your way to give examples that aren't discrimination. Why? Why not just acknowledge that it's a problem...and a big one?


    For instance, you found it necessary to post this, which completely discounts the OPs take on what happened...why?
    Ride like you mean it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #171
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    DH and I were talking about this the other night. We were trying to recall any riot with similar behavior that was solely "white". In the end we decided there hadn't been, due to lack of provocation.

    And as far as soccer fans rioting, why would race enter into it? Soccer fans riot. So do college sports fans. The common denominator isn't race. In Ferguson, the common denominator IS race. White cop...black kid. The protesters themselves will tell you it's about race.

    Quote Coanteen:
    Would be judged as outright racist in many circles. There is an expectation that minorities need to behave well to "represent" their whole race, which does not apply to whites - if some white asshats riot, there are generally no condemnations about them behaving "stereotypically white" or showing their people in a bad light or anything like that. There might be comments about stupid soccer fans or frat boys, but their behavior is not tied to some kind of stereotypical "white" behavior.
    Ride like you mean it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    When I was growing up Lutheran, the bias was to not marry a Catholic because the non-Catholic would have to sign over their children to the church. I never dated a Catholic boy because of it...always found out their religion first.
    Ride like you mean it.


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  13. #173
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    The first time I ever witnessed blatant racism was when I was sitting at a local bar with a grade school friend. He was on leave from the army, stationed in Iceland and he had brought his Icelandic girlfriend home with him. Nearby at the bar was a Native American. We have a reservation nearby. I never considered Native Americans to be possible targets of racism. Are you starting to see a pattern of naiveté here? Yes, I lived a sheltered life. Anyway, the hate and venom that came spewing out of that Icelandic girl's mouth when she saw that Seneca standing there was overwhelming. I gathered in Iceland there must be some sort of racial issue with their indigenous peoples. Wow.


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  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    The first time I ever witnessed blatant racism was when I was sitting at a local bar with a grade school friend. He was on leave from the army, stationed in Iceland and he had brought his Icelandic girlfriend home with him. Nearby at the bar was a Native American. We have a reservation nearby. I never considered Native Americans to be possible targets of racism. Are you starting to see a pattern of naiveté here? Yes, I lived a sheltered life. Anyway, the hate and venom that came spewing out of that Icelandic girl's mouth when she saw that Seneca standing there was overwhelming. I gathered in Iceland there must be some sort of racial issue with their indigenous peoples. Wow.

    Whoa. My neighbor (and friend) is half Mexican and half Icelandic. Can't say as I have ever heard her say anything off color about anyone race wise. I do know that the Vikings went over that way at some point. And I know there is a big bad volcano that might be getting to blow up there. Maybe they are tense folks.

    http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6049241...and-air-travel
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  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    In Ferguson, the common denominator IS race. White cop...black kid. The protesters themselves will tell you it's about race.
    Yes, and they (or other black people) would also tell you that referring to rioting as stereotypically black behavior is racist. That saying a group of black people breaking the law is "making the case for racism" (OMG your exact words) is racist.

    I know you disagree that the statements are racist, and thus, continue to insist that nobody in your community has even said anything racist within your hearing, where in the world do we all live that we come across such racist things, etc.
    I consider such statements racist. I guess if I lived in your community, I would not be able to say that in my view, nobody there says anything racist *shrug*
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
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    Below is the interpretation of your IAT performance, followed by questions about what you think it means. The next page explains the task and has more information such as a summary of what most people show on this IAT.
    Your Result
    Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for Dark Skin compared to Light Skin.

    The interpretation is described as 'automatic preference for Light Skin' if you responded faster when Light Skin faces and Good words were classified with the same key than when Dark Skin faces and Good words were classified with the same key. Depending on the magnitude of your result, your automatic preference may be described as 'slight', 'moderate', 'strong', or 'little to no preference'.
    I suppose that was slightly unexpected, but could be one of the reasons that I married my husband who was born in Cuba (from a spanish family) and I've always hated how my pale skin shows pimples and imperfections in a huge way.

    My son (who is 50% Cuban...obviously) flies his heritage loud and proud and has never had a problem here, although I'm not sure how I'd feel about moving to Arizona.

    I don't think there should be a problem examining racism and where it may or may not affect people. I do think that sometimes those of us from groups that have been discriminated against (I'm female) sometimes see slights where they don't exist (I am NOT speaking about the OP, just talking about a problem in general) or react to them in a way that doesn't help people get over their biases (whether they be internal or not). It's a dialogue that needs to be had either way - examining it doesn't make someone racist.

    Luckily, DH's family didn't mind him marrying a white girl, but I was a little embarrassed that his mother (who is from Cuba and speaks solely spanish) found me a more suitable companion for him than his brother's wife, who is "darker" than his brother. *throws hands up in the air in frustration*

    I do find it a little insulting that any criticism of the president is considered to be off-limits because he is of a certain race. That seems wrong. Just like I wouldn't want to be hired or promoted *because* I'm female, but instead *regardless* of whether I'm female or not. I also don't want people to treat me differently than one of the guys, just because I'm female. I'm a female who works in technology, which is apparently a hot topic right now.

    I just wish we would talk to each other with kindness when we're talking about these things.

    Sorry for your experiences OP, profiling of any sort sucks.

    It's a hard to navigate place.


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  17. #177
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    When I said "making the case for racism" I meant it gave racists more ammunition in their bigoted arsenal. Those who genuinely Are racist will look at that and say "see, told ya so". And sadly, that behavior might convince others that it IS stereotypical black behavior. If people are going to be racist anyway, they now have a reason for it, in their view

    That's what I meant.

    I just can't imagine HOW a person hates or looks down on another person simply because of the color of their skin. I don't know why you have such a problem with me. We agree on this. What do you want?
    Ride like you mean it.


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  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    Anyway, the hate and venom that came spewing out of that Icelandic girl's mouth when she saw that Seneca standing there was overwhelming. I gathered in Iceland there must be some sort of racial issue with their indigenous peoples. Wow.
    Iceland has indigenous peoples?
    Honest question, does it? I'm almost certain it doesn't, unless you'd mean... Icelanders themselves. Who I guess are as indigenous as it gets, being the people of Norse and Gaelic descent who colonized the place, but they're also the majority population. Like 90%+ majority population.

    Their minorities, in their own government minority reports, refer to other Euro immigrants like Poles, Lithuanians, etc.
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  19. #179
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    One of the saddest interactions I've had went as follows.

    I am Caucasian. I moved to Philly after law school. I decided I wanted to volunteer with high school mock trial. I went to the organizers and asked for the worst school-- the kids that needed the most help. At first them hemmed and hawed and tried to encourage me to go to a poorer Catholic school but I insisted I wanted a public school. They gave me Strawberry Mansion.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/strawberry-...ry?id=21084212

    I could talk all day about how great those kids were. I could tell you terrifying stories about what life was like in that school/area. They were truly not living in the same America we like to think exists everywhere. Things are improving but the version that existed in 2004ish when I volunteered there would really shock a lot of people.

    One day I was late to practice and walked into a discussion about me. They were talking about "what I am." I asked why they'd even care "what I was." The reason was-- they theorized that I must be something other than Caucasian, even if they couldn't immediately see/identify my race/ethnicity. I asked them why. The answer? Because no one white would or had ever done something spontaneously nice for them. So I had to be something OTHER than white since I came to their schooled and helped them because I wanted to.

    So sad.

    And not far off. A series of Teach for America folks came, got their wits scared out of them, and left just as fast. The only ones in the community grinding away trying to make things better were former graduates of the school who had come back to teach.

    In a lot of ways, that was sadder to me than a disproportionate arrest rate or even overt acts of racism. The thought that nobody cared... and they knew knobody cared. And they had sort of accepted that as reality. No one should grow up thinking their entire society doesn't care about them because of who and where they were born
    ~Veronica
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  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    I do find it a little insulting that any criticism of the president is considered to be off-limits because he is of a certain race. That seems wrong.
    I don't think all criticism of Obama or his policies is racist. Of course not. Some is, evcen blatantly so, but this is a political administration and it and its leader are and should be open to criticism of their policies.

    What I have noticed, however, and nor infrequently, is that a poster will criticize Obama and then add to their post "and I guess some people will call me racist because I don't like x." And, ummm...no one has. It's almost some kind of weird, idk, assumption-of-the-assumptions-of-others?
    I mean, it happens a bunch in the political threads, and it's just weird.
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