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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
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    9,075

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    Ah, get her! She's a good looking mare with Ferzon several times over in her pedigree. If she had a serious history of multiple rearing flips, I'd say no. But one time? Well, use a standing martingale and get a good trainer if she rears.

    I've always loved Arabians. Went to college near Lewisfield Arabs. Both of my WBs have all that Arab blood in them too.

    Get the horse. She might be a great riding horse. And you'll be doing her a terrific favor.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    737

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    If the flip was only one time a very long time ago, it would not necessarily be a deal-breaker for me, depending on the context of what occurred when she flipped.

    My boy is very light on the forehand to begin with, especially when he gets nervous. I can easily see how an inexperienced, frightened rider could pull him over backwards by accident during one of his little meltdowns. But my boy is -sigh- from fashionable halter lines, not from solid "using horse" lines like this lovely, lovely mare. I bet that she's one of those who will follow "her person" around like a puppy dog.

    I'm very curious to see her dam line. Does anyone on this board have Datasource and would feel comfortable looking up her dam?
    PA Hi-Ly Visible [PA Hi-Noon (by Magnum Psyche) x Takara Padrona (by *Padron)], 2005 Arabian gelding

    Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2006
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    380

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    Shoot, if I was closer - I'D have her!!! She is lovely.....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2012
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    346

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    Enablers, owner told me today I can mess around with her for as long as I like and if I like her, I can buy her. So.... hard to resist!
    As they say... resistance is futile. buy her!!

    You might see if you can find an Arabian breeders FB page and post a plea for someone with the datasource subscription to check out Flytes Delight. I think I did find a page where her dam was for sale, said she was a jumping pony!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Linden, CA
    Posts
    856

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    Her full pedigree is on AllBreed now.
    Quote Originally Posted by HuntrJumpr
    No matter what level of showing you're doing, you are required to have pants on.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2007
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    1,513

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    A 17-year-old Arabian (ridden by a 15-year-old boy) won the Haggin Cup for best-conditioned top-ten finisher at Tevis this year. My Arab is stronger and fitter at 19 than he was 5 years ago. Eighteen is not old for an Arab, not at all!
    RIP Victor... I'll miss you, you big galumph.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 2008
    Location
    Statesboro, GA
    Posts
    1,011

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    ENABLE ENABLE ENABLE! She has an excellent pedigree, top and bottom. Very nice "old fashioned" breeding that has produced a lot of very good, sane, sound horses. If I was still breeding I'd want her for myself. And at her age, if you condition sensibly, she should be fine, and give you years of riding pleasure.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    737

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    A big thank you to whomever filled in the rest of her pedigree on allbreedpedigree.com.
    Her dam's lineage is just as rock solid as her sire's pedigree. And she is a great-great-granddaughter of Comet! If you end up not getting her, please let me know and I'll post her info on the ABN forum and the various Arabian preservation breeders FB groups. JMHO, you really couldn't ask for a better pedigree for a sane, sound, people-oriented, hardy Arabian. She is a real find!
    PA Hi-Ly Visible [PA Hi-Noon (by Magnum Psyche) x Takara Padrona (by *Padron)], 2005 Arabian gelding

    Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
    Location
    The Great, uh, Green (?!?!) North!
    Posts
    3,807

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    I'll be the naysayer. She flipped on a rider and is green broke at 18. Do they know what caused the flip? (If it was a rear caused by the rider or even a baby moment, and then an unbalance/fall, maybe. An evil backwards move that might reappear? No way.)

    I'm not saying don't give her a shot, but be very careful, and be prepared for a pasture pet.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/vf+victorian+elli

    She's been sitting in a field for sale for years now ... saw her in person today, she's a lovely horse, although showing her age from lack of work/too many babies. Kind of love at first sight on my part! I like a flea-bitten chestnut gray (of course it's a chestnut mare underneath).

    A checkered history of course, she was broke to ride in her youth but apparently reared and fell over backwards on a teen and broke the girl's pelvis. Sold as a broodmare immediately after, and was a good one apparently, but owners aren't breeding any more.

    She's pretty much a giveaway now. I love her pedigree, what I can see of it, I like that old time American breeding. Am I being an idiot wanting to take her on as a project? I will be boarding where she lives so it's pretty tempting!! She is however 18 and has sat in a field for her whole life having babies.
    Sure, but I wouldn't plan on her becoming a riding horse.

    Would I personally buy an older mare that flipped? No. I would not. But arabs are super smart and they love getting a great new home. So if you want her in your life no matter what she does, then go for it.

    I had a lot of problems with my arab mare physically once she got to be 16, so I don't have the same "18 is young" mentality that others do, but the cost of a pasture/non-riding horse is lower then trying to keep sound for full work at 18.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
    Posts
    4,224

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    An 18 year old is not that old these days. Plus if she has not been riden for years she likely does not have the kind of wear and tear on her joints that others her age have. She could be one of those horses that has a great older life with a level head.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    681

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    Sounds like you have the opportunity to fool around with her before making a commitment. Take it VERY slow , start as though she was never trained. When it comes to time to ride...I would enlist a professional to see how light on the front end she really is. Nothing like lovely old Arab mares!!! Personally I would ask the owner if you could buy her with first month's board free...which amounts to same as fooling around with her for a month free, except you own her and aren't at risk of falling in love and possibly losing her. Don't transfer papers right away. If after a month you realize it won't work, ask owner to take horse back. My guess is you'll end up loving her, keeping her ride or not. Enabler here!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
    Posts
    4,267

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    For a mare that nice for that price, nothing wrong with taking the calculated risk assuming you'd be OK with it if "pasture ornament" becomes her highest use.

    If you have not done a lot of schooling, re-schooling, or even sitting on greenies before, get to know her over the winter and earn her trust by the usual food-and-grooming route, then see if you can't get in a program next Spring with a GENTLE trainer who understands the Arab mind and is willing to work with an "evergreen." As others have said above, she is middle-aged for an Arab and, if sound, there's no reason why she can't go on to a career under saddle.

    I would cut her benefit of a doubt for ONE "flip," especially if it happened when very young under a young rider who might just have grabbed and scared her or whatever. I have one in my field who was sold out of a therapeutic riding program for a "flip," which happened when some asshat volunteer hung the bit up on his bars taking the bridle off and didn't know enough to let go! Hardly the horse's fault. I bought another who had put a junior in the hospital with a bolt, when it turns out the cause was BEES.

    With patience, no timetable, well-fitted tack and light hands I see no reason not to proceed; but professional help would be a huge plus for you!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug. 13, 2008
    Posts
    2,031

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    I talked to my trainer about her the other day ... he was actually fairly skeptical, too -- he wanted to make sure that it wasn't her "go to" behavior.

    Thanks all for advice/enabling -- I promise to give updates.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,619

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    Am I being an idiot wanting to take her on as a project? I will be boarding where she lives so it's pretty tempting!!
    It will cost you (at least) as much to keep her as any other horse, there is no way to assess her future soundness as a riding horse, unless you have experience training/retraining, those costs will be higher than with many other horses (that are riding horses & assuming that your goal is to have a riding horse), saddle fit may be more costly/difficult than with many other horses, horse was once rather younger & a riding horse - yet after an apparent "single" incident was retired to be a broodmare (ie I'm sceptical that it was a "single" incident), "project" horse often implies selling on the horse as a much improved good horse citizen, even if she does become a GHC, she won't really be a sought after sale horse ... after watching a very experienced "flipping" arab mare, I'm v.e.r.y sceptical of any horse that has been admitted as such ...

    If you would be happy with this horse just as she is, then buy her, if you need her to be something different, and she will be your only horse ...

    In another thread you wrote
    After quite a while off, I am again back in the horse world. I had a bad accident that shook my confidence but I am able to ride now.
    Forget this horse.
    Go find a horse that is doing exactly what you want to do, spend time with that horse, make sure you're comfortable & then buy that horse - once you have your confidence back, look at adding this mare to your routine ... perhaps you can work with her without actually buying/owning ...
    Last edited by alto; Aug. 23, 2014 at 06:57 AM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,194

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    It is going to be very expensive to rehab/train if you also need to board.

    Feet done, teeth, de-worming. Saddle fit.
    training for several months at a minimum (I suggest full time)
    supplements?
    Adequan + legend (I bet money this horse has something in pasterns/ringbone).
    Senior feed

    I love and have arabs/HA. They are usually super hardly and good horses. But they can be very hard to rehab if not done with the right feel and tact. They can outsmart the rider before the rider realizes it.

    There are tons of free ridable and younger arabs. Flippers scare me, would not feel safe with this horse. Just my viewpoint.

    you can get a really nicely bred ridable arab for next to nothing. People are giving away nice horse.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2001
    Location
    Nashville, TN USA
    Posts
    1,177

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    Get her!!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2010
    Location
    S. Calif.
    Posts
    743

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    Get her if you love her, however, I would plan on never riding her as the risk of her flipping even one time would just not be worth it to me.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    5,621

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    Off topic, but...

    Arab folks: is anyone familiar with where some of the horses on this mare's dam side were bred? I'm seeing, way back, American-bred mares bred to stallions who were in the UK and never imported to the USA... so were the American-bred mares sold to UK breeders? E.g. Karazel 1962 by UK stallion Nizzam x Karella, who has Davenport, Gulastra, even *Fadl. Or Dobry Zab 1977 by Dobry (who must have been European-bred) x Pharazab -- with an American-bred sire and a dam whose provenance I just cannot figure out -- with two crosses to American sire Gulastra, but other Blunt/Crabbet lines related to some of the early American imports but not the ones who were imported?
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2000
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,186

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    Wow, somehow I missed the whole flipping thing, lit and fig...

    If you have the money to spend on a horse that you won't ride but want to love on and give a good home to, then try her out. If you want a riding horse but have confidence issues of your own and she has a history of rearing & flipping, then I'd say move on. If you can afford to have two, then give her a happy home with no expectations AND get a riding horse! How's that for enabling?!
    My Mustang Adventures - Mac, my mustang | Annwylid D'Lite - my Cob filly

    "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran


    3 members found this post helpful.

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