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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Stolen - honestly. How is this the biased lense of the far right media?

    Forget the source, although many on this board site the huffington post, nbc news, msnbc, rachel maddow, time, newsweek, as fact -
    a girl was murdered in broad daylight. She was white. Unarmed. Murdered by two black 18 years olds. No riots. No looting.

    That's all. Those are facts. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Didn't read your link but were the 2 perpetrators arrested? Were they law enforcement officers that have power and control over citizens? Can you not see the difference between criminals killing someone and an unarmed citizen being shot by a police officer?

    It may very well be a "good" shoot but don't pretend there is not a difference between the 2 scenarios. And if non-locals are the ones causing the violence, then don't start condemning all the citizens of Ferguson. I think MOST of the Ferguson population is participating in peaceful protests (or staying out of it.) But, everyone wants to paint the entire black population of Ferguson with the same brush as the handful of people creating chaos.
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  2. #722
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    Oh dear, just what is needed in the area right now...

    http://www.abc17news.com/missouri-ne...knife/27617188


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Stolen - honestly. How is this the biased lense of the far right media?

    Forget the source, although many on this board site the huffington post, nbc news, msnbc, rachel maddow, time, newsweek, as fact -
    a girl was murdered in broad daylight. She was white. Unarmed. Murdered by two black 18 years olds. No riots. No looting.

    That's all. Those are facts. Nothing more, nothing less.
    There usually isn't riots or looting if a random citizen kills another random citizen.

    The riots and looting (or protests) come when police kill a citizen who's perceived to either be innocent or, if not innocent, at least not committing a crime worthy of officially sanctioned dispatchment off the mortal coil.
    In the Zimmerman case, the protests happeend not because a white man killed a black teen, but because, without going through formal investigation or trial, the cops declined to charge. Again, it really had little to do with Zimmerman himself - it was a reaction to the perception of police actions.

    There were also no riots and looting when Michael Dunn (white) shot teen Jordan Davis (black), or when Ted Wafer (white) shot Renisha McBride (black), or when Rodney Bruce Black (white) shot the Hopkins brothers (black), etc - and the first 2 cases were written about, and Sharpton even commented on the McBride shooting. It was in the Trayvon Martin aftermath and they generated discussion on stand your ground laws.

    But. No riots and looting, citizens killing citizens, with the police duly investigating and charging suspects.
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  4. #724
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    Yup.

    I guess the point I was making is that this has gone FAR beyond what may have happened. And the fact that it is happening, and on such a scale, certainly makes one think that at this point, no MATTER what the outcome, there will be no resolution.

    So many untruths and lies are being pushed, mainly by the media and the race hustlers, that is what has blown this out of proportion.

    Why is Holder going there?? Does this department have a history of racial violations? Is there NO investigation going on?

    Or is it for the "optics". The very fact that Holder is asking for a THIRD autopsy, and going there himself certainly seems to slant things one way.
    And we all know how Holder feels about racial issues, and let's just say he's a "little biased".

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBGP View Post
    And the murderers were arrested pretty immediately, yes?

    I am not in Ferguson. My world is nowhere near the realm of Ferguson. But it's not a simple answer to why this one event set off the powder keg. It's not like everyone in Ferguson is looting, rioting, or even protesting. The vast majority are frustrated and wanting to be heard and feel safe in their hometown. The minority are taking advantage, having a good time, stirring the sh*t, etc.

    If murders like the one you posted happened in that area every day and locals felt like nothing was being done about it, then there very well could have been the same reaction. I am very sorry to hear about her, she seemed like a lovely individual.


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  5. #725
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    So glad you've read my posts and know how I think EYEROLL.


    Quote Originally Posted by inca View Post
    Didn't read your link but were the 2 perpetrators arrested? Were they law enforcement officers that have power and control over citizens? Can you not see the difference between criminals killing someone and an unarmed citizen being shot by a police officer?

    It may very well be a "good" shoot but don't pretend there is not a difference between the 2 scenarios. And if non-locals are the ones causing the violence, then don't start condemning all the citizens of Ferguson. I think MOST of the Ferguson population is participating in peaceful protests (or staying out of it.) But, everyone wants to paint the entire black population of Ferguson with the same brush as the handful of people creating chaos.


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  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Hands up position? Not necessarily. Which just goes to show more information is needed.

    What's the angle of entry? We were shooting each other with dart guns (the rubber kid's kind) here the other day. When one of us ran at the other, guess where some of the "bullets" hit? Yep, the inside of the forearms. When both the shooter and the charging person were both right-handed, the "bullets" ended up in a similar pattern: all along the right-hand side of the "attacker." When the attacker was farther away, the shots weren't all so nicely down one side. We couldn't do that if we tried.

    It does seem odd to me that most of the shots are to his right arm.

    The real question is the head shot: lowered head in a charge or a struggle, or head hit while he was leaning/tumbling/falling forward after the other shots, or execution shot while he was already lying on the ground?

    I'm sure the forensics people are recreating all possible scenarios and we'll find out eventually.
    Possibly he was aiming for the torso but the eye injury made his shots group to the left side (of shooter/rt side of person shot).
    I think of a head down, arms out charge like a linebacker...
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  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Possibly he was aiming for the torso but the eye injury made his shots group to the left side (of shooter/rt side of person shot).
    I think of a head down, arms out charge like a linebacker...
    Just think, what if the deceased had been white and the policeman black?
    Would the rabble rousers still have shown up to incite riots, for days now?

    Something else is wrong here and it is not what happened, that has not even been explained fully yet sufficiently to lay blame any one way.

    Honestly, protests, maybe, all that violence and riots ... and still at it?


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  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverley View Post
    Gateway's statement based on 'two reliable sources' is not compelling to me. Presumably if there were fractures he'd have been treated at the hospital and we should have had a medical report by now, which is not to say that there hasn't been one and I missed it. I do agree that probably the biggest problem in all of this is the police departments' stunning incompetence in information dissemination.
    Hippa forbids releasing people's medical history.
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  9. #729
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    Not jumping into the fray about who was at fault or innocent in Ferguson, but am perplexed about the totally different responses to the death and news coverage of Garner in Staten Island.



  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Hippa forbids releasing people's medical history.
    Also, I expect right now the police department is hogtied and muzzled and not permitted to even go to the bathroom without first asking for permission and those in charge are taking their time deciding what to give permission to.

    I would not say they have a free hand to do what they want, the way things are going there.
    I would not wonder why they do or don't anything we may think is reasonable for them to do, but ask those that have taken charge.


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  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    You know what scares me? There is a photo of a table at the spot where Michael Brown was shot, registering people to vote - Democratic.

    THAT scares me. Jeez, talk about disgusting exploitation.
    There is a registration table set up in front of the memorial for Michael Brown -- what is so disgusting about that? Are you disgusted that they are registering Democrats? lol

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3Ar0eSA3h


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  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Hippa forbids releasing people's medical history.
    So where did the info for the gateway report come from, if not an official medical report?



  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    You know what scares me? There is a photo of a table at the spot where Michael Brown was shot, registering people to vote - Democratic.

    THAT scares me. Jeez, talk about disgusting exploitation.
    Exploitation? There's a white mayor, mostly white police force and mostly white city council. How do you think that happens?

    Part of is that the local elections are held in off years in April, not at the same time national elections are held.

    If you want a representative government, you have to vote. When did registering to vote become a bad thing?
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  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly View Post
    So where did the info for the gateway report come from, if not an official medical report?
    Probably leaked. But the hospital would not be able to release it or release the patient history. (Which is what someone wanted to know/have earlier in the post.)

    "Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the Prosecuting Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police."
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  15. #735
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    Gateway may be right, but like Beverly I am surprised that a medical report for the officer hasn't been released yet.


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  16. #736
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    Over many decades, I've marched and protested in D.C., St Louis, Berkeley, San Francisco, Atlanta and Savannah and NYC and Lake Tahoe even (I think that's all the cities) against LBJ and the war in Vietnam, for civil rights for blacks, and for women's rights. We were pretty darn successful in all but women's rights. I never saw anyone out of the many blacks, whites and gays, men and women, etc., who marched with me, riot or loot or throw rocks or molotov cocktails at cops. Our leaders got the permits, and we marched with our signs and slogans, except that one time I got my father's big new convertible in LBJ's parade, LOL, and we pulled out our signs when we got downtown. We all learned that peaceful protests were the way to go when we were teenagers and college students.

    The looters in Ferguson are using the death of Brown as an excuse to steal. And the fact that the state patrolman backed down the first night he was in charge added fuel to the fire. Black leaders, like ours in Atlanta, stood up and told people to get out of the streets when we had the Rodney King verdict rioting. And they even shut down Freaknik because that yearly festival was hurting conventions and business. You must have strong leaders who are willing to stop the mayhem and violence. And they must be consistent in their firmness and resolve.


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  17. #737
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    Um, how do you know the political preference of those being registered?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly View Post
    So where did the info for the gateway report come from, if not an official medical report?
    If you had actually read the article at the link, one source was from the DA's office, and one from the St Louis County PD.


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  19. #739
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    Ray Kelly, the previous NYC police commissioner (Mr. Stop & Frisk) thinks the Ferguson police/authorities have really screwed up.

    "By Mark Niquette Aug 19, 2014 3:07 PM

    Officials can reduce violence in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson by releasing all available details about the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, said Raymond Kelly, a former New York City police commissioner.

    Police in the Missouri city waited almost a week before disclosing the name of the white officer involved in the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown on Aug. 9, and no official autopsy has been released. The Brown family yesterday provided its own autopsy, conducted by former New York City medical examiner Michael Baden, which showed the teenager had been shot at least six times.

    Putting out information such as how many bullets were fired as early as possible is appreciated by people angered by such an event, said Kelly, president of risk management services for real estate brokerage Cushman & Wakefield Inc. in New York. It can help soothe tensions among protesters while those breaking the law are arrested, he said.

    “It certainly has the potential for quelling or lessening disturbances,” Kelly said in a telephone interview. “You tell them what you know and tell them what you don’t know, rather than dribbling it out.”

    Missouri Governor Jay Nixon ordered the state National Guard to restore peace after a third straight night of violence in Ferguson. Early yesterday morning, organized groups attacked police officers with firearms and gasoline bombs, leading police to fire tear gas into the streets.

    Not Core

    While it’s understandable that the governor would want Guardsmen brought in to help restore order, they should be used primarily for security on the perimeter of activity to free up police, who should be better trained to deal with the public, Kelly said.

    “These are people who are, generally speaking, not trained in policing tactics,” Kelly said. “Military don’t do that; that’s not in their core mission.”

    The National Guard can be helpful because there are elements of the community that don’t trust the local police, said Scott Bates, president of the nonpartisan Center for National Policy in Washington and a former police commissioner in Stonington, Connecticut.

    “It’s performing the policing function, but maybe it’s seen as more of a trusted party,” Bates said. “It’s a very strong statement -- whenever you see those uniforms on the street, it really is a wake-up call to everyone in the community that the situation is almost beyond control.”

    ‘Military Solution’

    Norm Stamper, police chief in Seattle during demonstrations against the World Trade Organization in 1999, said he’s still divided about using the National Guard then. While it helped bring peace and ensure safety, it was “a military solution to a First Amendment situation,” he said.

    It would help in Ferguson to assemble a crisis team of police, elected officials and members of the community with credibility to manage the conflict, speak with one voice and resolve tensions, Stamper said. “De-militarizing” the police would help, he said.

    “Anything that we can do now to shift police officers out of that military mindset is vital,” Stamper said.

    Kelly, 72, was in charge when Sean Bell, an unarmed 23-year-old man, was killed by police in a 50-bullet barrage outside a nightclub in Queens just hours before he was to be married in November 2006. While the incident drew public outrage, it didn’t spark the type of civil unrest seen in Ferguson.

    One Voice

    Besides getting out information quickly, it’s important to have one person in charge of the tactical response, a single spokesman, and experienced legal advisers -- which hasn’t always been evident in Ferguson, he said.

    “The toothpaste is out of the tube here,” Kelly said. “There’s lots of things that should have been done differently, and you have to live with them.”

    While authorities may be following procedures to withhold information for any future court case, it’s created a vacuum that is fueling speculation and heightening tensions, said Ed Davis, the former police commissioner in Boston. More compassion for the family and the community needs to be shown, said Davis, who led the department during the Boston Marathon bombings last year.

    “It’s hard to fix this because it’s gone so bad,” said Davis, who was commissioner from 2006 to 2013 and now leads Ed Davis LLC, a security advisory firm in Boston. “If people look at the human side of this and not just the legalistic side of it, they’d be better off right now.”

    ‘Mind-Boggling’

    It’s “mind-boggling” that the Ferguson Police Department of 53 has only three black officers for a community that is almost 70 percent black, Kelly said. It’s critical that the force increases its diversity, he said.

    Kelly worked from 2002 through 2013 under former Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the founder and majority owner of Bloomberg News parent Bloomberg LP. He also served an earlier stint, from 1992 to 1994, which makes him New York’s longest-serving police commissioner.

    Governance in Ferguson hasn’t caught up with the increasing numbers of black residents, and the “old boy’s network” of recruiting dominates many smaller police departments, said Colin Gordon, a professor at the University of Iowa who has mapped demographic shifts in the region.

    ‘True Diversity’

    “‘My dad was a cop, I’m going to become a cop’ is the sort of pipeline of recruitment,” Gordon said.

    Increasing the diversity of a police department isn’t just the right thing to do morally; it also makes the force stronger, said Fred Bealefeld, a retired Baltimore police commissioner.

    Bealefeld cited the Maryland city’s efforts to recruit Latino officers during his time as commissioner from 2007 to 2012 in response to a growing Hispanic community.

    “You can’t say, ‘Let’s just teach a bunch of white guys to start speaking Spanish,’ Bealefeld said. ‘‘You have to recruit from within the Hispanic community so that you’re getting true diversity.”

    Bealefeld said the best way to attract minority officers is to reach out to community groups and tap existing members of the force to recruit qualified friends and family members. Baltimore offered financial incentives for officers who did, he said. Kelly said he recruited officers at black churches.

    Even so, it would be a mistake and setback for diversity to rush to hire officers who aren’t qualified, Stamper in Seattle said.

    “It requires immediate action, but it does not mean hiring individuals who are destined to fail,” he said."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...-violence.html
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  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    If you had actually read the article at the link, one source was from the DA's office, and one from the St Louis County PD.
    That's problematic. It's selected dissemination to smear the victim...and to hear the prosecutor's office is a part of it is really discouraging. No one is going to believe there will be a fair investigation. The prosecutor has been asked to step aside already and has refused.
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