The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 201
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2010
    Posts
    7,058

    Default

    JoZ--I get you. I feel clearly female but have never, even as a young child, done the doll thing, or the pink, or the prettied up. I tended to make things and get dirty and be rough--still am.

    I don't think that has anything to do with gender, and what you're all pissed about is people seeing it that way. There are plenty of men who spend WAY more time dressing up and doing their make up etc. (my SO in fact) but that is just more of a way people are that I think has little to do with sexual orientation.

    I believe I know the girl you are talking about. Diane Sawyer did an episode on 60 Minutes with that family. It just made me wan to cry, in a good way.

    I've watched two of the transgender episodes from England. I'm putting up the links as I find them. They are SO good. CS, one of the boys with the bug blue eyes and joyous attitude is who I think of as "you."



  2. #82
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Out for Lent
    Posts
    34,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoZ View Post
    Yep, getting closer! I don't really believe that that's all there is to it. But I don't like that it is put that way. To be fair, in the video I didn't like, when the mother is going through her resistent period, she claims to have checked with her daughter to see if she couldn't be happy as a boy wearing pink. And the child said no, that wouldn't work. But why wouldn't it work? Because there's more to feeling like a girl/identifying as a girl? Or because the child had already been indoctrinated to the idea that boys DON'T wear pink? And while I feel it's great that these videos are getting airplay and support, if there really is more to it than the stereotypical role, start saying that! Stop dwelling on the outward stuff.
    Oh, heck. I heard about one mother taking pink crayons out of her boys assortment....how in the world are they supposed to color in a pig?!

    yes, boys get indoctrinated very early that pink is a girl thing!
    You have to become a douchy teen to wear the pink shirts with pride or a twinkle...

    And thenmos often they are of the pink flood sort (save the ta-tas...)
    http://www.brucescandy.com/uploads/p...y9xvr355w0.jpg

    http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-2921019...2260_263881226
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  3. #83
    Join Date
    Mar. 18, 2012
    Posts
    885

    Default

    It is hard to accept such a decision when there is such a shaky foundation of what is considered inherently male or female behaviour, no? Is that what you're aiming at?

    For instance, one can argue that the child is identifying with a caricature of what it is to be female. Is that it?

    Of course, there's also the argument that all that matters is their own interpretation thereof anyway. It's complicated in such a scenario, though, as the child seems to lack knowledge of the diverse ways in which one can be female. So then, how to judge the validity of her assertion?

    (Not to be confused with other cases, where it is clear that the child identifies with a particular gender, "pinkness" aside).


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2004
    Location
    Left coast, left wing, left field
    Posts
    6,734

    Default

    Yeah, that's pretty much it. I guess the lines are becoming blurred, which in most ways is good... GREAT! Think about centuries ago. Gender roles were more prescribed as were sexual preferences. In the past, a girl might have "felt like a boy" or wanted to be a boy because she was smart, or good at science and math, or non-maternal, or even attracted to women. As we unravel things and decouple them from gender, what is left that defines feeling like a particular gender? I think a lot of women, myself included (obviously!), would have trouble defining what it means to feel like a girl/woman, if one didn't use role stereotypes or sexual preferences in the definition.
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Out for Lent
    Posts
    34,404

    Default

    A blast from the past (many in the US may not know):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fam...e_%28series%29

    George (Georgina) George is a tomboy, demanding that people call her George, and she cuts her hair very short and dresses like a boy. She is headstrong and courageous by nature and, like her father, scientist Quentin Kirrin, has a hot and fiery temper. Blyton eventually revealed that the character was based on herself.[2] George has a loyal dog named Timmy (or Tim) who'd do anything for her. She often fires up when anyone calls her by her real name or makes fun of Timmy. And she loves it when somebody calls her George or mistakes her for a boy. In Five Get into a Fix, the old woman Mrs Jones mistakes her for a boy: even though Julian had said to her that she was a girl, she later forgot this. She sometimes takes this to the point of asking that her name be prefixed with Master instead of Miss. Various references have been made to what meaning should be read into this – for instance "I remember reading in my first Famous Five book about a girl called Master George. What a puzzle and thrill. She claims to never tell lies as that is cowardly."[3]Yet others have interpreted that George had gender dysphoria and may have been a transgender child. It would seem likely to be seen this way by transmen who read the books as children. Several transmen have cited George as being their role model. Hugo Rifkind, writing in a Times supplement, mentioned both these possibilities but considered that Blyton's conservatism meant neither was likely to be intended, as well as citing the follow-up.[4]
    back then (no, I am not THAT old, but read plenty of the books in that series) it just seemed like a quirk. (BTW, these books had been - in newer times - labeled as sexist, as they had pretty clear divided gender roles. But it really didn't seem off or out of place to me, not even in the 70s, at least not to me. I hear that other contemporary kid classics have been reworked to fit the modern standards...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2006
    Location
    ONTARIO CANADA
    Posts
    1,559

    Default

    Here btdt

    Episode #3

    http://youtu.be/q_-MTVz4ZRM
    Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching
    www.facebook.com/btrparadressage

    Proud Team Four Star Minion! Renegade for Life!



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2006
    Location
    ONTARIO CANADA
    Posts
    1,559

    Default

    Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching
    www.facebook.com/btrparadressage

    Proud Team Four Star Minion! Renegade for Life!



  8. #88
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2009
    Location
    Near the cupcake shop
    Posts
    2,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoZ View Post
    Yeah, that's pretty much it. I guess the lines are becoming blurred, which in most ways is good... GREAT! Think about centuries ago. Gender roles were more prescribed as were sexual preferences. In the past, a girl might have "felt like a boy" or wanted to be a boy because she was smart, or good at science and math, or non-maternal, or even attracted to women. As we unravel things and decouple them from gender, what is left that defines feeling like a particular gender? I think a lot of women, myself included (obviously!), would have trouble defining what it means to feel like a girl/woman, if one didn't use role stereotypes or sexual preferences in the definition.
    Being unsure, neurotic, and emotional at times are pretty standard issue woman things that unite us all! I know I am guilty of all of them, so I don't think I would call them stereotypes

    Very interesting thread to read. I try not to over analyze this stuff. To each their own, whoever that might be.



  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2007
    Location
    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
    Posts
    8,533

    Default

    It's got to be more than not identifying with traditional gender roles. I always identified more with the men in my family and enjoyed doing "guy things" but I've always felt like a girl/woman. I would imagine it's about not being quite comfortable in your own skin. Somehow knowing that your heart identifies with an identity that your body/physical appearance conflicts with.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Posts
    1,800

    Default

    @ Ceylon Star - did you catch the recent, although I think repeated from April - CBC's Anna Maria Tremonte conversation with a young kid in Alberta and his mother and sister? He'd been saying since the age of 4 or so - as a she - that "she" was a "he" - and the sister eventually persuaded the parents that s/he wasn't kidding, so, they dealt with it in a really positive fashion - got professional help, ensured that "she" was recognized as as "he" by schools, friends, family, etc, and so much more, of course, but, so far so good! On puberty blockers, etc, iirc. The kid is around 12 now, I believe. I'll see if I can find the link.

    Hope all goes well for you - you're extremely brave, and I imagine this cannot be easy for you.



  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2006
    Posts
    1,800

    Default

    Found the CBC interview with the trans-gendered boy from Alberta, his mother, and his sister:

    http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...sgender-boy-1/

    He is SO bright and articulate - great kid.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Apr. 19, 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,502

    Default

    JoZ, I feel similarly to you. I "wanted to be a boy" when I was 2 or 3 until I was 5 or 6 and old enough to be shamed out of saying it anymore but when I hear these stories I sometimes wonder if my sibling/peers were more "accepting" what would have happened to me. I'm very happily hetro-female. Gender is mysterious, I don't think we (science) understand very much about what it means to be female or male beyond the body we inhabit. Culture is extremely influential even to our subconscious.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    14,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoZ View Post
    No, not that either. I guess if I were to put it really simply (because I tried to do it in a really complicated fashion and it didn't work!) I would say there's got to be something more to identifying as a girl than liking pink and princesses. And what if that didn't mean "girl"? What would define belonging to one gender or another if we took stupid stereotypes away?
    If you look down at your 'parts" when you first wake up, do you think they belong there, or are they wrong because it isn't the genitalia of the other sex? If people refer to you as she, does it make you cringe, and feel like they don't know you? Do you feel like you are living a lie being a female? It has nothing to do with pink, dresses, princesses. Lots of females don't like those, or are Tomboys, but they don't think their parts don't match who they are.
    That's kind of all part of gender identity. CS can correct me if I'm, wrong.



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2013
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    If you look down at your 'parts" when you first wake up, do you think they belong there, or are they wrong because it isn't the genitalia of the other sex? If people refer to you as she, does it make you cringe, and feel like they don't know you? Do you feel like you are living a lie being a female? It has nothing to do with pink, dresses, princesses. Lots of females don't like those, or are Tomboys, but they don't think their parts don't match who they are.
    That's kind of all part of gender identity. CS can correct me if I'm, wrong.
    Really well said!!!!
    Curious about Trans* issues? Feel free to ask!
    Saving Pennies To Get My Own Canoe


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2008
    Posts
    3,964

    Default

    CS, thanks so much for answering our questions. I wish you all the best!

    My question is, how do you feel about transgendered people competing in sports? Particularly a male to female trans - do you think it's fair for them to compete against women in individual competitions?
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**



  16. #96
    Join Date
    Mar. 18, 2012
    Posts
    885

    Default

    ^ great question!



  17. #97
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
    Location
    Southern Ontario
    Posts
    1,535

    Default

    This is a fascinating conversation! JoZ, I think I get exactly what you are saying, as well as what jetsmom wrote. I am biologically female, and have always identified as "female" without really giving it much of a thought. I never identified with pink/princesses, but still feel completely female -- at "home" in my body. So this thread has really got me thinking -- what is it that I identify with? What is that quality of "femaleness" that I identify with?

    I am also really intrigued that "two-spirit" is more accepted in the First Nations community than among European/"white" folks.

    You guys are all very cool people -- I'd love to sit around a table with all of you chatting about these ideas.

    And CS -- if you are half as cool IRL as you are on COTH, I'd love to know you. I wish you all the very best


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    3,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by *Teddy* View Post

    Thanks for posting the links to a fascinating, informative series.

    And thanks, CS, for generously answering questions.



  19. #99
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Out for Lent
    Posts
    34,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    CS, thanks so much for answering our questions. I wish you all the best!

    My question is, how do you feel about transgendered people competing in sports? Particularly a male to female trans - do you think it's fair for them to compete against women in individual competitions?
    http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx

    Well, not the question (direction) you were going but there are a couple of gals who are now guys.
    Number 9 on the list was interesting to me
    Krieger retired from the sport in 1990 and underwent sex reassignment surgery in 1997, and he has publicly said that he wishes he hadn't been drugged so that he could have discovered for himself what his gender preference was.
    There was - back in the 50s or so, a female skier was disqualified, because a (crude) test revealed she was a man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2008
    Posts
    3,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx

    Well, not the question (direction) you were going but there are a couple of gals who are now guys.
    Number 9 on the list was interesting to me


    There was - back in the 50s or so, a female skier was disqualified, because a (crude) test revealed she was a man.
    Wow! I guess with the testosterone a female to male trans would be able to compete on par with the men?
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**



Similar Threads

  1. Happy Birthday, Ceylon Star!
    By JoZ in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Jul. 14, 2014, 09:29 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: May. 29, 2013, 08:25 PM
  3. Exiss Trailer Questions/4 Star Runabout
    By SpicyMonarch in forum Off Course
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Jan. 13, 2009, 12:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •