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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Have to wonder what Ted was thinking ...but thanks Florida.
    At least according to Ann Rule, he went to Florida precisely because at that time it was the state most likely to execute. Go figure. I'm just glad he's dead.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    At least according to Ann Rule, he went to Florida precisely because at that time it was the state most likely to execute. Go figure. I'm just glad he's dead.
    Yeah, but at that time Ann Rule still had the romantic notion of "the Ted that should have been" inside the adult Ted, some kind of subconscious, guiding him to self-destruct. She was emotionally involved, and her points on what makes a sociopath were more Hollywood than reality (I don't think she was actually influenced by Hollywood, just that the field was pretty new - all that nonsense about always charming, invariably highly intelligent, blahblah).

    She dropped those notions in subsequent books about other sociopathic killers.
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia



  3. #43
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    Georgia doesn't have to prove motive? Just means and opportunity?
    How does that work? It makes me squirm a little.



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    Georgia doesn't have to prove motive? Just means and opportunity?
    How does that work? It makes me squirm a little.
    I don't do criminal law, but it's my understanding that no state has to prove motive. The state just has to prove the defendant committed the crime, beyond a reasonable doubt. Not why the defendant might've been motivated to do it.

    Although, as c and c points out, juries generally want to know what the defendant's motive might have been.


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Yeah, but at that time Ann Rule still had the romantic notion of "the Ted that should have been" inside the adult Ted, some kind of subconscious, guiding him to self-destruct. She was emotionally involved, and her points on what makes a sociopath were more Hollywood than reality (I don't think she was actually influenced by Hollywood, just that the field was pretty new - all that nonsense about always charming, invariably highly intelligent, blahblah).

    She dropped those notions in subsequent books about other sociopathic killers.
    Charming, huh? I guess she'd never met our Pee Wee Gaskins.

    I loved Stranger Beside Me. I guess because it was such a creepy notion, that the good-looking guy manning the crisis hotline with you might be a serial killer. But I only read one of her other books. I suppose because you're right - most serial killers aren't all that charming.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    Charming, huh? I guess she'd never met our Pee Wee Gaskins.

    I loved Stranger Beside Me. I guess because it was such a creepy notion, that the good-looking guy manning the crisis hotline with you might be a serial killer. But I only read one of her other books. I suppose because you're right - most serial killers aren't all that charming.
    I found some of her books absolutely fascinating, like End of the Dream, If You Really Loved Me, Small Sacrifices, Bitter Harvest... they all seem to be '90's, really good indepth profiles of sociopaths.

    At some point she seemed to start writing at the vic's family's request (Every Breath You Take, In the Still of the Night) and the books just went downhill by presenting the victims as perfect Mary Sues instead of human beings, like the earlier books. You felt like you were kind of reading fiction, not a true story. It's weird.
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia



  7. #47
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    they are monsters. Death is too good for them. Let them ROT. I'll pay for it.

    And yes, I don't support mandatory minimums. I support people thinking, considering, and meting out justice.

    May They ROT.


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    I'm strapping on a helmet!

    (Parents seem guilty as sin here. The insurance policies, the internet search, the accessing the car, the weird remarks. Monsters.)
    I agree! Sexting a 16 yr old!!!! He has no shame, doesn't he?

    Paint: Good thinking there. I hope you guys nail that scum bag to the wall!
    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher


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  9. #49
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    Paint-Ann Rule also wrote about a case or two, where the victim knew that their attacker would never stop, and actually said that Ann Rule would write her story someday.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  10. #50
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    A lot has been made about the websites the father visited. As an fyi, the subtreddit "r/childfree" is basically a board for people who don't want to have kids. I've been there a few times and it's not so different from many coth threads that express that opinion. It's not like a "get rid of your kids" board or anything like that at all.

    I think of the guy did this on purpose he should be left in a locked car till he dies, but visiting childfree, or even some of the morbid sites, aren't exactly case-clinchers.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


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  11. #51
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    I don't think the point is that the father did any "one" thing to suggest that he is guilty. It is a combination of events that point to a life that was not what he portrayed to the public. It was an officer who thought that some events (which are likely not disclosed) did not make sense at the time that lead to a combination of events.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I don't think the point is that the father did any "one" thing to suggest that he is guilty. It is a combination of events that point to a life that was not what he portrayed to the public. It was an officer who thought that some events (which are likely not disclosed) did not make sense at the time that lead to a combination of events.

    Exactly...like the car stinking horribly even hrs later with the doors left open. Yet the dad supposedly, got in and drove 2 miles without noticing anything, then pulled over, and jumped out saying his baby was choking...When rigor mortis had set in, and the baby was stiff. No way it was choking, and no way he missed the stench when he opened the door to get in at work.


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  13. #53
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    Thanks, caf, I agree the emphasis on him visiting childfree boards is disturbing. I don't know which sites he was reading, but he wouldn't get advice on killing his kid on any CF board I have seen. The consensus there is horror and disgust, with a strong theme of, "If he hadn't wanted kids he should have not had one."

    They should have enough evidence without the websites, though. The mother went to the daycare and found the child not there and commented he must have left it in the car? WTF, why wasn't the child found then? Who finds their kid missing and doesn't go look for him?
    The hooves of the horses! Oh witching and sweet is the music earth steals from the iron-shod feet. Will Ogilvie



  14. #54
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    Right. It's cumulative evidence that he went to the child free site in addition to all the other things he did. You add up, for deductive reasoning, what the father (and mother) did or didn't do, and then you decide if he is guilty or not. So every bit of admissible evidence that is relevant to "intent" of the defendant is admissible in court.

    Once you get outside of Atlanta/Fulton Co., the jurors are more likely to vote for the death penalty. Fulton is very liberal. Remember, that's the county where a judge and his court reporter was murdered in the courtroom, a deputy was shot outside, and a federal agent was killed for his vehicle, and the jury would not vote for the death penalty for the killer of 3 people!. (That judge when a magistrate filling in for my judge had once run out of a courtroom when a guilty verdict was returned and the defendant's family and friends rioted....leaving me to cover the jury while the deputies physically fought to restore order. He should have run when the defendant started shooting up his courtroom.) We hardly ever went for the death penalty because of the jurors not wanting to give it. (I got it once on the killing of a child, but didn't get it once on the killing to the head teller in a bank during an armed robbery. I only asked for the death penalty 2x in over 20 yrs. And I tried a lot of baby killers)

    Don't confuse "intent" with "motive." We had to prove intent to kill for a malice murder conviction. We also have the "felony murder" statute which allows a murder conviction if we prove the underlying felony. For felony murder, we have to prove the intent to commit the underlying felony, but not the intent to kill. It could be "cruelty to children" in this case, or "aggravated assault" or another felony. And those counts, malice murder and felony murder, can be alternative counts in an indictment so that the jury has a choice. We didn't have to prove premeditation to get a malice murder count as in this state if you "form the intent instantly and kill, and immediately regret it" it is still malice murder. some states have degrees of murder and first degree can require premeditation, but not GA. We always tried to prove motive, although some crimes were totally senseless, because defendants always wanted lesser included offenses charges like voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, which carry less prison time.

    I think Ann Rule's book on Ted Bundy was a classic study of a serial killer. I personally have always studied serial killers because they are so morbidly fascinating. Bundy was the classic good looking intelligent white male who hated women. And remember, he had women begging him to marry them while he was on trial in FL. OK so how many women want to marry a guy who crams bottles and branches up women and strangles them? Apparently many, since one of the women married him. Another great serial killer book is "The Michigan Murders." It's a good study of another good looking and intelligent white male serial murderer who hated his mother (as did Bundy).

    While the Cobb County case does not involve a serial murderer, it is going to be an interesting case to watch. Obviously the wife knew more than she is letting on. OK, in GA, we have to prove more than someone knew a crime was to be committed. In fact, in our state, "mere presence at the scene of the crime" is insufficient to get a conviction. So you can ride along with a buddy who tells you he's going to murder someone, and stand there and watch him do it, and we cannot convict you. Unless you, oops, hand him the gun as some of my defendants did on numerous cases. Then you get convicted of murder. And if you are the "getaway driver" we can convict you as a "party to the crime" and you get the same verdict as the killer.

    As for rigor, the temperature is a big factor. The child was in rigor as his legs were stiff when the cops got there, so he'd been dead for hours in that heat. Not alive so no choking, so that excuse for stopping by the father is not going to fly. And stomach contents can help determine the time of death. If the child is on video eating one of those chicken biscuits at chickfila, then the extent of digestion of the breakfast will help determine time of death. When you are killed, digestion stops. When you are in mortal fear of death, digestion slows or stops. (like when someone buries you alive or points a guy to your head.) Time of death is not an exact science, but it can be used to help determine how long the child suffered before he died. If his breakfast at chickfila was digested, then he suffered for a long time. And suffering adds to the determination of whether or not a jury will give him the death penalty. This is all presuming that the DA will "seek the death penalty" in this case. (Ironically, the defendant had applied for a job with chickfila.)

    In the instant case, the visiting of the child free website is only one piece of evidence showing that the defendant intended to kill his son. It's important evidence in this case. But it's not the only evidence of guilt and wouldn't be used alone to prove that the guy wanted to kill his son. This guy just did everything he could to show that he wanted to kill his son.


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  15. #55
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    Often uttered in jest, but there are better ways to get rid of unwanted children....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  16. #56
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    Cloudy-Another big piece of evidence will be the DNA. Mother may have used donor sperm since they were having trouble conceiving and likely the police already know that answer and will wait to release that fact when the DNA test is complete.


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  17. #57
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    I hope not to get too off the topic here, but what are the resources for a parent who doesn't want to parent?
    How easy or hard is it to willingly surrender your child of whatever age (without a situation of prior neglect/abuse)? I know there's strong societal pressure to 'keep at it' if you're the custodial parent, and financial aid etc if it's logistically difficult... But what if someone just.... Can't do it (parent)?
    People abandon their kids with relatives I guess, and I've heard of babies being left at churches/fire stations, but what else? Can a parent go to, I don't know, the department of family services and say, I'm done... Would there be a lot of shaming/guilt tripping/refusal to take the kids without the presence/evidence of a neglectful or dangerous situation?

    I'm just trying to figure out why other avenues weren't taken.
    Of course hard to get into the head of a killer, I know.
    (A decidedly unhorsey) MrB knocks over a feed bucket at the tack shop and mutters, "Oh crap. I failed the stadium jumping phase."
    (he does listen!)


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  18. #58
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    Safe haven laws are appropriate for infants, but for older children? It's a person, not a puppy. I can't imagine the psychological damage that would result from a parent dropping a 4 or 5 year old off at the fire station.

    Of course,you could argue it would be no worse than that caused by abuse or neglect...

    Point - if you don't want children, don't have them. Once they're here, they are people and therefore are not disposable.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris



  19. #59
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    As far as I know...there aren't. It's the one job that you don't find out that you might not be suited for until it is too late. Someone somewhere opened up a "no questions asked" child turnover and it was so filled with teenagers that they had to stop it.


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  20. #60
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    I know someone that was given away to his father's friends when he was seven years old. Neither his mother or his father wanted him and they gave him away. It was a good family that he went to and they treated him very well but it left a life-long mark on him.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey



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