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  1. #61
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    I guess I'm a freak then. I haven't had little kids in almost 40 years but when I got to my car at the horse show last weekend the first thing I did was walk around it to make sure there were no children playing in the sand.

    I was getting my car because it was time to load up daughter's tack and take it out to the trailer. I could have been thinking about that but I didn't. My first priority was to make sure it was safe to move the car. Then drive carefully to her stabling area.

    I may be a freak but your children are safe around me.
    Ride like you mean it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    What I did to prevent forgetting my daughter was, as soon as I learned I was pregnant (because I'm one of those people who always imagines the worst), starting looking in my car EVERY time I walked away from it, making it a habit. Its amazing what you notice (expensive items left in sight, etc.).

    I still check the backseat of my car every time: my DD is 25.

    There are plenty of good suggestions on this thread to prevent such a tragedy; maybe instead of the public service reminders that come out this time of year that just say "Don't Forget" it would be better to suggest such things as checking car every time, putting a purse or phone in the backseat, etc. to make it a habit, just like not leaving the phone or purse behind is.
    This is basically what I did - and yes I still check the back seat of the car before leaving even though my daughter has her own car at this point!

    I also always put the diaper bag on top of my work stuff so it was impossible to miss (couldn't get into work without my id).

    My husband always put his work laptop and stuff in the backseat next to the baby. He still always puts it there even if he is the only one in the car.

    I did at least once arrive at work - go to get out of the car and look and see I hadn't dropped off my daughter at daycare when she was an infant. Pretty easy to do since the daycare was just across the street and I wasn't usually the one to drop her off in the morning.

    So I really do think an awareness campaign (like the 'back to sleep' etc) would help decrease incidences. Remind people that it can happen to anyone and to give themselves alternate programming that also becomes a pattern (checking the back seat, putting something down as a reminder etc).


    10 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I guess I'm a freak then. I haven't had little kids in almost 40 years but when I got to my car at the horse show last weekend the first thing I did was walk around it to make sure there were no children playing in the sand.

    I was getting my car because it was time to load up daughter's tack and take it out to the trailer. I could have been thinking about that but I didn't. My first priority was to make sure it was safe to move the car. Then drive carefully to her stabling area.

    I may be a freak but your children are safe around me.
    And once again, it's not about priorities or what you're thinking about; it's about the way your brain is wired to complete routine tasks. Your example is apples to oranges.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I guess I'm a freak then. I haven't had little kids in almost 40 years but when I got to my car at the horse show last weekend the first thing I did was walk around it to make sure there were no children playing in the sand.

    I was getting my car because it was time to load up daughter's tack and take it out to the trailer. I could have been thinking about that but I didn't. My first priority was to make sure it was safe to move the car. Then drive carefully to her stabling area.

    I may be a freak but your children are safe around me.
    You are outside of your usual routine in this scenario. Again, imagine that one time on your regular routine that you missed doing something that was not in your regular routine.

    I will give you a personal example. Usually, my wallet is in my purse. I had to take it out for something outside of my usual routine. Next day, grabbed purse and forgot wallet. Now, take something that you have forgotten to do and alter the situation so that it is a child - especially one you do not usually have with you. Again, on your normal routine, not a trip to the mall or horse show or anything else.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Okay, I'll have to accept that I am wrong here. I don't understand it but I accept it.

    Why is checking around my car for children so different? When I had other things on my mind.

    You know what...never mind. This isn't about me. I should never have posted to begin with.
    Ride like you mean it.



  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Okay, I'll have to accept that I am wrong here. I don't understand it but I accept it.

    Why is checking around my car for children so different? When I had other things on my mind.

    You know what...never mind. This isn't about me. I should never have posted to begin with.
    It isn't really different but you have to basically condition yourself to check every single time (even when you know there are no children in the car) so it becomes automatic. For people who always have the kids with them in the car - it is likely less of a possibility than for those who are out of their normal routine.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Okay, I'll have to accept that I am wrong here. I don't understand it but I accept it.

    Why is checking around my car for children so different? When I had other things on my mind.

    You know what...never mind. This isn't about me. I should never have posted to begin with.
    Checking around your car at a horse show is different because it is outside of your normal routine - going to the horse show and the entire day. Do you routinely check around your car for children at the office parking lot?

    I understand you find yourself to be a diligent person, but again, it just takes that one time. So, if you accidentally hit a child with your car in the office parking lot what would you say to someone that insisted they would never do that because they have excellent situational awareness and just do not understand how you could have not known that the small child was behind your car.

    Just trying to help you think outside the box to understand how something like this could happen.


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  8. #68
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    Maybe the habits I've acquired are due to my cynical, 'I see bad things everywhere' nature?

    My son is required to stand on the porch when cars are moving around in the driveway. Yes, he's 10 and as tall as me, and more easily seen these days, but still, he must stand on the porch.

    I always back into parking spaces or better yet pull in forward and all the way through to the next facing one so I am thus facing out... so I don't have to back out and run the risks involved with that.

    I see other parents driving their kids to the bus stop un-seatbelted and/or in the front seat, and I see more bad things... [that's one example]

    I am a woman so I always look under my car and then in it before getting in.
    I was also a pharma rep, so the idea that someone might try to rob you is pretty ingrained.

    I'm not saying that this means the disasters I developed habits to avoid won't someday happen anyway... my interest is in those who don't develop those habits or see the need for developing them.
    Maybe I'm hyper aware of the idea that 'these things happen to people everyday'?
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Why is checking around my car for children so different? When I had other things on my mind.
    You anticipated a child to be around your car, so you looked. In backover accidents, the child is not anticipated to be around the car.

    In a previous post, I mentioned knowing a father who did this. His child was inside the house with mom when he left. Between the time he got in his truck and began to leave, the child exited the house unnoticed. Tragically, that can happen to anyone, including you. Checking all around your car prior to moving it does reduce risk but does not remove blind spots or completely eliminate the opportunity for a small child to enter one.
    Jer 29: 11-13


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Yes, I check. Always. I was brought up to not make mistakes, there's no such thing as accidents, "you didn't forget, you're just lazy". So yes, my thinking is skewed from today's thinking. There were also severe consequences for not making the grade. I learned at an early age not to make mistakes or there will be hell to pay.

    Different time, different world.
    Ride like you mean it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Okay, I'll have to accept that I am wrong here. I don't understand it but I accept it.
    A lot of people don't understand it, almost certainly including those poor souls who've experienced it, but again the Washington Post article does a really great job of explaining how this happens to otherwise responsible and conscientious people. It breaks it down, if you will, in a way that you don't have to be a neurologist to understand. Actually, here's a big chunk of the explanation:

    David Diamond is picking at his breakfast at a Washington hotel, trying to explain.

    “Memory is a machine,” he says, “and it is not flawless. Our conscious mind prioritizes things by importance, but on a cellular level, our memory does not. If you’re capable of forgetting your cellphone, you are potentially capable of forgetting your child.”

    Diamond is a professor of molecular physiology at the University of South Florida and a consultant to the veterans hospital in Tampa. He’s here for a national science conference to give a speech about his research, which involves the intersection of emotion, stress and memory. What he’s found is that under some circumstances, the most sophisticated part of our thought-processing center can be held hostage to a competing memory system, a primitive portion of the brain that is -- by a design as old as the dinosaur’s -- inattentive, pigheaded, nonanalytical, stupid.

    Diamond is the memory expert with a lousy memory, the one who recently realized, while driving to the mall, that his infant granddaughter was asleep in the back of the car. He remembered only because his wife, sitting beside him, mentioned the baby. He understands what could have happened had he been alone with the child. Almost worse, he understands exactly why.

    The human brain, he says, is a magnificent but jury-rigged device in which newer and more sophisticated structures sit atop a junk heap of prototype brains still used by lower species. At the top of the device are the smartest and most nimble parts: the prefrontal cortex, which thinks and analyzes, and the hippocampus, which makes and holds on to our immediate memories. At the bottom is the basal ganglia, nearly identical to the brains of lizards, controlling voluntary but barely conscious actions.

    Diamond says that in situations involving familiar, routine motor skills, the human animal presses the basal ganglia into service as a sort of auxiliary autopilot. When our prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are planning our day on the way to work, the ignorant but efficient basal ganglia is operating the car; that’s why you’ll sometimes find yourself having driven from point A to point B without a clear recollection of the route you took, the turns you made or the scenery you saw.

    Ordinarily, says Diamond, this delegation of duty “works beautifully, like a symphony. But sometimes, it turns into the ‘1812 Overture.’ The cannons take over and overwhelm.”

    By experimentally exposing rats to the presence of cats, and then recording electrochemical changes in the rodents’ brains, Diamond has found that stress -- either sudden or chronic -- can weaken the brain’s higher-functioning centers, making them more susceptible to bullying from the basal ganglia. He’s seen the same sort of thing play out in cases he’s followed involving infant deaths in cars.

    “The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Maybe the habits I've acquired are due to my cynical, 'I see bad things everywhere' nature?

    My son is required to stand on the porch when cars are moving around in the driveway. Yes, he's 10 and as tall as me, and more easily seen these days, but still, he must stand on the porch.

    I always back into parking spaces or better yet pull in forward and all the way through to the next facing one so I am thus facing out... so I don't have to back out and run the risks involved with that.

    I see other parents driving their kids to the bus stop un-seatbelted and/or in the front seat, and I see more bad things... [that's one example]

    I am a woman so I always look under my car and then in it before getting in.
    I was also a pharma rep, so the idea that someone might try to rob you is pretty ingrained.

    I'm not saying that this means the disasters I developed habits to avoid won't someday happen anyway... my interest is in those who don't develop those habits or see the need for developing them.
    Maybe I'm hyper aware of the idea that 'these things happen to people everyday'?
    Hmmmm....


    When I walk behind my Audi, I don't look for a shin-splitting bumper pull receiver hitch.

    When I walk behind my dually, I do look for a shin-splitting bumper pull receiver hitch.

    Does that difference mean that I'm not 'hyper aware that people run into receiver hitches all the time?' I mean someone somewhere has a hitch on their Audi.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Based on that information, then, it seems these deaths are basically inevitable. At some point, some parent will forget to put the purse in the back seat which he or she ALWAYS does, and subsequently forget the child.

    I have caught myself thinking about my ride while driving home. And made myself stop it and pay attention. So I do understand that part of it.
    Ride like you mean it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Yes, I check. Always. I was brought up to not make mistakes, there's no such thing as accidents, "you didn't forget, you're just lazy". So yes, my thinking is skewed from today's thinking. There were also severe consequences for not making the grade. I learned at an early age not to make mistakes or there will be hell to pay.

    Different time, different world.

    so you never, ever, in your adult life (let's say from age 22 til now)...you NEVER made a mistake.

    that's what I'm hearing.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
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    Angela Freda, we have a lot in common.
    Ride like you mean it.


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  16. #76
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    I have not made mistakes that affected other people. I have sewn two pieces of fabric together in the wrong way and I did twist a cable the wrong way but I backed down the cable and retwisted it the right way. I make those kinds of mistakes. Not often tho.

    I'm intrigued that not making mistakes is seen as so bizarre. Isn't that everybody's goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    so you never, ever, in your adult life (let's say from age 22 til now)...you NEVER made a mistake.

    that's what I'm hearing.
    Ride like you mean it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    It is usually a "perfect storm" of events that results in these tragic incidents. From the Washington Post article:

    "On the day Balfour forgot Bryce in the car, she had been up much of the night, first babysitting for a friend who had to take her dog to an emergency vet clinic, then caring for Bryce, who was cranky with a cold. Because the baby was also tired, he uncharacteristically dozed in the car, so he made no noise. Because Balfour was planning to bring Bryce’s usual car seat to the fire station to be professionally installed, Bryce was positioned in a different car seat that day, not behind the passenger but behind the driver, and was thus not visible in the rear-view mirror. Because the family’s second car was on loan to a relative, Balfour drove her husband to work that day, meaning the diaper bag was in the back, not on the passenger seat, as usual, where she could see it. Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell, stressed, solving other people’s problems. Because the babysitter had a new phone, it didn’t yet contain Balfour’s office phone number, only her cell number, meaning that when the sitter phoned to wonder why Balfour hadn’t dropped Bryce off that morning, it rang unheard in Balfour’s pocketbook."

    If any one of these things hadn't happened, the baby might not have been left in the car.

    I've had "one of those days" and left the kettle on, left the garage door open, etc. and I'm sure that it could have happened to me.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    10 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I have not made mistakes that affected other people. I have sewn two pieces of fabric together in the wrong way and I did twist a cable the wrong way but I backed down the cable and retwisted it the right way. I make those kinds of mistakes. Not often tho.

    I'm intrigued that not making mistakes is seen as so bizarre. Isn't that everybody's goal?
    No mistakes is the most common goal that is never achieved.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I have not made mistakes that affected other people.
    I call bull $#&$. Everyone makes mistakes.
    But have fun in your superhero online identity

    This is a horrific topic, and I agree with the suggestion that we need more helpful public service campaigns. So many people think "Oh, that person was just a horrible parent - I'm a great parent & aware of everything so that could never happen to me." Heck, I see people posting that on this thread! Judgement or punishment are not the answer (unless it's drug-related, etc). Awareness is.


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    I have not made mistakes that affected other people. I have sewn two pieces of fabric together in the wrong way and I did twist a cable the wrong way but I backed down the cable and retwisted it the right way. I make those kinds of mistakes. Not often tho.

    I'm intrigued that not making mistakes is seen as so bizarre. Isn't that everybody's goal?
    "I have not made mistakes that affected other people."

    That is very interesting, and I say that gently and kindly. I can't imagine that this is an accurate statement of actual fact. It's just what you perceive to be true. It is how you choose to see your experience. It sounds like your having made a mistake is something you would not and could not ever admit that you did.

    Cross-stitch and needlepoint doesn't really count in the big scheme.

    "I'm intrigued that not making mistakes is seen as so bizarre. Isn't that everybody's goal?"
    Of course it's a goal.






    It's just not a reality. It's a myth.


    14 members found this post helpful.

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