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  1. #1
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    Default Socially Awkward or a Creep

    We've had two threads recently about stalker types and the reaction to them. Here's a really important article about how to tell the difference.

    http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/0...snt-an-excuse/
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2

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    Thank you for this! I think my radar is decent and this article articulates what I think I'm responding to by my gut.

    Having a socially awkward teen...there is a huge difference between her behavior and that of a creeper...and I appreciate that this is recognized!
    LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Jan. 9, 2014
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    Default

    Hmmm.

    I tend to get crap from my friends for being too 'rude' to guys who don't listen, even when I say 'No'. They think I should let them buy me the drink/get my number/have lunch/whatever... I tend to say 'No' or 'No thank you' (I have a lovely SO!), and when they persist, I get defensive, and usually say 'leave me alone' or 'you need to leave' - for clarification, my friends are OK with the No/No thank you part, just not the second part.

    I understand what 'No' means, why don't you?

    I'll have to send them this!


    16 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Default

    "NO is a full sentence" comes to mind ...


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Default

    and what did happen to the stalkers and the Cothers on those threads? Where is our closure?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Default

    I can't tell you how many times I hear "I got bad vibes/he creeped me out, but it didn't seem like enough to complain/do something about it...and now I'm here trying to get a restraining order."
    Aisha, my heart from 03/06/1986 to 08/22/2008.

    COTH's official mini-donk enabler.
    Odie, aka the Evil Burrito, is on Facebook.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonzola View Post
    Hmmm.

    I tend to get crap from my friends for being too 'rude' to guys who don't listen, even when I say 'No'. They think I should let them buy me the drink/get my number/have lunch/whatever... I tend to say 'No' or 'No thank you' (I have a lovely SO!), and when they persist, I get defensive, and usually say 'leave me alone' or 'you need to leave' - for clarification, my friends are OK with the No/No thank you part, just not the second part.

    I understand what 'No' means, why don't you?

    I'll have to send them this!
    I can't read the article (firewall blocked it) but this part resonates with me.

    So often these guys are trying to force whatever they think represents "nice" on you, and everyone else says "he's a nice guy, why don't you give him a chance?" Because, I said no. I don't have to have a reason, but he's violating my boundaries if I say no and he tries to force me not to. That's not nice, that's scum.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed


    13 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    I can't read the article (firewall blocked it) but this part resonates with me.

    So often these guys are trying to force whatever they think represents "nice" on you, and everyone else says "he's a nice guy, why don't you give him a chance?" Because, I said no. I don't have to have a reason, but he's violating my boundaries if I say no and he tries to force me not to. That's not nice, that's scum.
    You, netg, don't need to read the article -- you pretty much summed it up! Well done you for understanding this! So many women don't get it.
    "Ponies are a socially acceptable form of child abuse." - said by a friend when asked if she was going to find a pony for her 5 year old daughter.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    I can't read the article (firewall blocked it) but this part resonates with me.

    So often these guys are trying to force whatever they think represents "nice" on you, and everyone else says "he's a nice guy, why don't you give him a chance?" Because, I said no. I don't have to have a reason, but he's violating my boundaries if I say no and he tries to force me not to. That's not nice, that's scum.
    I completely agree, as long as a clear message has been given. Most people pick up on subtle signs, but I do think that there are people for whom a clearer message is necessary. It always kind of bothers me when someone is portrayed as a stalker, and yet the other party has always tried to be nice. There are times when it really is necessary to simply state something like, "I am not interested in a relationship with you and I do not anticipate that this will change. I intend to move on with my life and you should move on with yours as well. Please do not contact me in the future." Once a clear message has been given, if a person persists it is a bad sign. I wouldn't be that blunt with most people, but if nice and subtle isn't working it is time to try something different.
    I've learned a lot about this at work. I used to have people to sell something that I knew wouldn't be of interest, and I'd try to be nice. A few would call again and again. I finally learned to be nice at first, but when I have someone who is too aggressive I will tell them that I am simply not interested and that I'd appreciate if they would not continue to contact me. It is hardly ever necessary, but sometimes it is.



  11. #11
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    Casey09, you need to read the article about clear messages and creepers.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Casey09, you need to read the article about clear messages and creepers.
    Well, I did (although maybe not carefully enough). Honestly, I don't think it's a great example. Yes, it's obvious that he is pushing way too hard. However, I don't think a soft no is the same as someone who comes right out and says they aren't interested. Personally, before posting online I'd just say I wasn't interested. I can see what the author is saying, but I still think that there is something to be said about being a lot more direct if necessary.

    And FWI: I'm not saying that extreme persistence doesn't indicate that someone might be a predator. If it gets to the point that you are questioning it, though, what is the harm in spelling it out directly?



  13. #13
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    For a creeper, even a very clear "no" will not discourage them. On more than one occasion I have been called a stuck-up bitch for telling a guy very clearly "I am not interested in you please leave me alone". I usually reply with "well, if your definition of bitch is someone who does not want to date you, then I'm a bitch".


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hb View Post
    For a creeper, even a very clear "no" will not discourage them. On more than one occasion I have been called a stuck-up bitch for telling a guy very clearly "I am not interested in you please leave me alone". I usually reply with "well, if your definition of bitch is someone who does not want to date you, then I'm a bitch".
    Bitch, not just a word, a lifestyle.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bitch, not just a word, a lifestyle.
    When someone tells me I'm bitchy, I know I'm living my life the way *I* really want to!

    Kim
    I loff my Quarter horse clique

    I kill threads dead!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    I saw my COTH stalker has reappeared...yay
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  17. #17
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    Default

    That is an excellent article. I noticed the time stamps in the online interchange and formed the exact conclusion as the author... before I saw the author's conclusion.

    The difference between 'socially awkward' and a stalker is the stalker refuses to hear "NO".

    Women need to pay attention when a man ignores - or worse, is obviously angered by - the word "no". Regardless of whether it's verbal or non-verbal.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey09 View Post
    Well, I did (although maybe not carefully enough). Honestly, I don't think it's a great example. Yes, it's obvious that he is pushing way too hard. However, I don't think a soft no is the same as someone who comes right out and says they aren't interested. Personally, before posting online I'd just say I wasn't interested. I can see what the author is saying, but I still think that there is something to be said about being a lot more direct if necessary.

    And FWI: I'm not saying that extreme persistence doesn't indicate that someone might be a predator. If it gets to the point that you are questioning it, though, what is the harm in spelling it out directly?
    The harm is: you already have spelled it out, you said NO. No one needs more than that. Soft no or hard no you still said no. If you have to go into further detail then they have already crossed over that creeper/stalker line.
    Your personal boundaries are a lot more blurred than I would like mine to be. If I'm having to explain that I'm not interested then, to me, the conversation has progressed too far. I'm not interested in letting them down gently or any of the other rubbish we get told to do.

    As an interesting aside I've been thinking about conversations and whether we are taught to listen to what is being said by ourselves as well as others. e.g I was sitting in a food hall eating and saving a seat for a friend. A guy comes over and says 'is this seat taken?' I say 'yes' he then proceeds to try and take the seat and I tell him 'No' and the reaction of him and his friend were 'you didn't need to be like that' 'Geez what an over-reaction' yadayada. I believe he simply wasn't listening to HIS OWN question which I answered (briefly because I had a mouthful). In his mind he was asking if he could have the seat but that wasn't what he verbalized.
    My friend and I had bit of a play around with this scenario and discovered lots of people don't even know what they are saying themselves no wonder there is so much miscommunication going on.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    I do a lot on online dating, mainly because I love meeting new people. So I should preface this by saying that 99% of the time people are perfectly nice, and if I'm not interested for whatever reason I just don't respond and this "soft no" works for all involved.

    That said it is a coincidence that this thread came up because I just got a message from one of the rare creepers. He had messaged me before a few months ago from a different screenname and I checked out his profile and opted not to reply. A week later he messaged again, and then when I still didn't respond, another time. So finally I wrote back and said, "Hey, thanks for the message but I have to say I don't quite understand why you are messaging me when I talk about my three dogs in my profile and yours says you don't like dogs. A non-dog lover would really not get along with them, they are very high energy and have no concept that the furniture isn't for them too, etc, so I just don't see how we would be compatible." So he wrote back that he didn't see why I was bringing that up, he was just opening a conversation and here I was planning to move in to his house. I was like, "See? Completely incompatible already, perfectly fine, might be time to move on to someone you get along with better, God speed!"

    Anyway, he just messaged me again with a new user name but thus same picture. His opening message was something along the lines of "Congratulations, you've found your white knight, lol" and his profile once again discussed how much money he made and how he travels all over the world and gives money to charity, all written in a tone that is just ...off, and then his "You should message me if": section (standard section in all okc profiles) begins, I sh*t you not:

    You don’t use offensive, four letter words like DON’T and STOP – unless they are used together :-) You have a sense of humor, the ability to enjoy life with a dash of silliness, a spark in the eyes, and a killer smile that can melt me any time when I get mad at you.

    It is quite rare that I let one fly in response to a opening message, because I'm really not out to be a jerk, and normally the Quiet Ignore does the trick, but at this point I responded with,

    "You DON'T have a chance, and STOP dreaming."

    That said, I really have 99% positive experiences, and have only ever MET (vs. "been messaged by") nice guys. If I ixnayed the whole thing over the occasional creeper I would have missed out on the funnest date ever last week, with a guy who was super, SUPER nice ...to me, to every server who waited on us, to the bouncer at his favorite place where he was obviously a well liked regular, to the happy drunk people who struck up a conversation with us, and at the end he didn't want me to miss the last train home so he got us a cab and took me literally TO THE DOOR of the train.

    So I think it is important not to get so defensive that all guys get tarred with the "probably a rapist" assessment, because then you'll exclude all of the nice people, of which there are plenty. I look for two things before I respond to a message: 1. generally kind and respectful tone (I have ZERO sense of humor about "jokes" and any and all sarcasm, cynicism, any of it whatsoever is an immediate ticket to ignore-land), and 2. absolutely no pushing of boundaries, whatsoever, AT ALL. If I list Corona as a beer I like, don't make a teasing joke about light beers. If I say I've been trying to eat more and more vegetarian, don't see if you can get me to cheat and have a steak. Those are the "little boundaries" that I think a lot of women see as "just joking" or "just teasing" or "he's probably nervous" but for me they are red flags. ANY kind of joking about boundaries, teasing about boundaries, diminishing things you like, ANY OF IT is not ok. Women do not owe men a sense of humor about boundaries, even the little ones.

    Nice guys, if you say you like a lame beer, don't use the opportunity for one upmanship, even though it may be there. Nice guys, if you say you are trying to eat more and more vegetarian, might choose to order a vegetarian dish that evening instead of trying to get you to order a steak. Nice guys, it should go without saying, don't believe that "DON'T" and "STOP" are offensive four letter words, but the little, less obvious boundaries are really where it's at, because the sum of those parts make the man.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey09 View Post
    It always kind of bothers me when someone is portrayed as a stalker, and yet the other party has always tried to be nice.
    The Hot Topic clerk clearly isn't being nice, and Fedorabeard, from my reading, knows exactly what he's doing. Creepy McCreeperson.

    LOL, HT clerk gets awesomely not-nice in the end:
    http://imgur.com/gallery/g18ls
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia


    4 members found this post helpful.

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