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  1. #101
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    Jul. 30, 2005
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    I haven't read all of the replies, but I don't think you can expect her to change everything at once. It's too much to ask. Figure out your main sticking points, and what you want to do about them. (So she does the chores properly, or you take away internet. Starts to pay xx towards bills within xx days or you stop letting her use the car.) Stick to those guidelines and be strict about them.

    Please don't just make her life so miserable at home that she rushes to get out and lands in a bad situation. (Like removing the bulbs from her room. Seriously, WFT?!)
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    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #102

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    Whenever I see stuff like this I want to be like, "if this were your horse, would you let her step all over you like this?" No, of course you wouldn't. Treat her like a horse (metaphorically speaking). Establish boundaries, stick to them. Tell her exactly what's expected of her. I'd say ask, tell, demand...but you've already asked. You're at the tell stage. Be firm.

    There is no "suggest" and "polite" at this point. She couldn't give you the courtesy of being polite when you brought your concerns to her, why should you roll over for that?

    Like everyone else says, summarily change the password to your wireless (make it something very hard to guess. If you really want to get serious, you can also set it up so it only recognizes certain MAC addresses as being allowed, do not include her device(s)). Change the password to the netflix account (or if you can live without it, just close the account for the time being).

    If you're paying for her phone, take her off your plan. She pays for her own phone.

    Tell her you expect her to pull her weight in the barn for HER pony. If she starts slacking, you go find a free lease situation to put the pony in for a while.

    Tell her if she doesn't have the money to pay rent, she is expected to do X list of chores (dishes, vacuuming, laundry, bathroom, whatever). If she doesn't want to do that, she's expected to be working at getting a full time job or getting into school (if a 4 year college isn't on the table, like someone else said...trade school is possible, as is community college). If she's going the school route, she's expected to keep her grades at B or above.

    When she says there aren't any full time jobs, she means there aren't any full time jobs that she wants to do. There is incredible turnover in the service industry, for example.

    She does not get use of the car unless she is paying for insurance/gas. (hell, my parents were kind enough to pay for my first car, but I was expected to pay for the insurance, tags, taxes, gas, oil changes, and so on).

    You get the idea. Come up with a plan. Present the plan. Stand firm. Make sure your husband is standing with you on this. Do not deviate. Do not back down when she tantrums. She's had plenty of opportunities already, she doesn't get any more.
    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Well, I don't envy you, OP.

    I guess it might have been useful not to say "we want you to help out more" but perhaps "we want you to become successful in life, and it ain't happening like this. How can we help you to become self-sufficient...because you can't live here forever."

    I'd ignore the tantrum, and start again. Every single day. "What is your plan, because you can't live here forever. How can we help you?"

    And slowly start making your home a not-so-fun place to be anymore y. No Netflix, no car, and every night...a lecture about how she needs to find a way to become self-sufficient, because she can't live there forever.
    A nightly lecture will soon get tuned out.

    I think a better approach will be "What are you going to accomplish today?" in the morning ("Oh I dunno" is NOT acceptable and should be responded to with "Well I expect help with ....") and an evening "What did you accomplish today?"

    I think the car is hers, but I hope she is paying for gas and insurance
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #104
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    Apr. 18, 2010
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    I think parents like this need a support group, similar to al anon. It is far more widespread now than at any time I can remember.

    I don't have kids, but my niece , age 25 is partly in this category....very slow to mature, still soaking her parents for $, even though she lives with her bf and has a baby...her parents are subsidizing her while she stops works to pursue a college degree (she worked a low pay retail job). Which isn't so terrible, except that she is taking two classes a semester, and will take 8 years to finish.

    I know , through professional and, social contacts, many, many people with adult "kids " in their twenties and beyond, that the parents subsidize with cash or by $ for rent, for cars, etc...whether the kids live at home or not. I know the economy is tough, but anyone who wants to work, can find some kind of job, and young people can share apartments as roommates, or work at a barn and live there free exchange for work.

    I think every one of these kids has one thing in common...they are manipulative (I've met quite a few), and they also , many of them, have real issues that interact with their manipulation...some are, quite frankly, not that smart, and unable to do the college level work that is their parent's dream. Others are unmotivated , or think trade school is "beneath " them. Others have substance abuse, or emotional or developmental issues.

    It becomes a real ongoing problem for the parents and sometimes the entire family. It would be amazing if anyone could start forming support groups for these parents.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    A nightly lecture will soon get tuned out.

    I think a better approach will be "What are you going to accomplish today?" in the morning ("Oh I dunno" is NOT acceptable and should be responded to with "Well I expect help with ....") and an evening "What did you accomplish today?"

    I think the car is hers, but I hope she is paying for gas and insurance
    Oh I agree, it certainly would not do much by itself. But my point was just that if the nightly refrain included the part "what can we do to help?" it would be difficult for the adult child to say "and no one will help me."

    The lecture would most definitely have to be part of a whole game plan - cutting the purse strings, expecting chores to be done, and...eventually, some sort of ultimatum. I hope it wouldn't have to come down to selling the house....hoping that before then the adult child would want to leave, and be willing to accept help to make it possible.



  6. #106
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    Apr. 18, 2010
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    Also, what these "kids" have in common, is a sense of entitlement. They almost seem sociopathic in that regard (sorry if that comes off badly, but I have given a lot of thought to it)

    They see older parents struggling or upset, and it seems not to matter. They (the adult kids), seem fine with free loading or demanding $ for rent, cars, or full support, for as long as they can. While unless their parents budgets allow, most of them are not rolling in the high life, they also usually will indulge themselves as far as the payouts allow...spending whatever $ they do earn on entertainment or toys, rather than EVER offering to pitch in for expenses such as car insurance payments or food, if they are living at parent's home.

    On the parent side, it imo reaches a state of enabling similar to al anon or narcotics anonymous family interaction ....

    The fact that a number of these kids also have emotional and other issues such as IQ below ability to have the professional career parents want for them, or are vulnerable to substance abuse issues etc, makes them genuinely needy....thus it hard for the parents to turn their back on that need with "tough love"...a support network for the parents is clearly lacking.
    Last edited by Countrywood; Feb. 10, 2014 at 11:25 AM.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  7. #107
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    Oct. 14, 2010
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    Good luck.

    I would have the pony for sale in a heart beat after that blow up. Right after I sold the TV.

    She can't work 2 part time jobs? I can completely understand why your other daughter is annoyed.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
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    Apr. 18, 2010
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    I don't know anything about OP except she is in a tough spot and seems like a kind hearted person.

    I know in my niece's case, there were issues going on for years that were not addressed, starting when she was a toddler, including teachers urging my sister to get professional help for her daughter (my sister was in denial, made one feeble when child was 9, then let it go) This dynamic doesn't happen overnight, and that is why sometimes these parents are enmeshed or feel too guilty to put their foot down.



  9. #109
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyTuesday View Post
    And people who are busy, very busy, are not likely to sit around being depressed. They don't have time and they have body chemicals moving around and not forming sludge. My husband once knew a psychiatrist who said he never had to treat a serious hobbyist for depression because they are too busy to sit around. I'd say getting off the couch/bed away from the TV and out of the house is the first positive step.

    And I don't blame the younger sibling for resenting her sister. She should.
    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I have no idea what's going on with the OP's daughter, but this statement is well... to put it nicely, highly inaccurate.
    I suspect there is a confusion between clinical depression and simply inertia. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

    She sits around and watches TV because yes she is lazy but also because this is what she does. She needs to learn new patterns.

    I HATE to exercise, particularly on the elliptical. The easiest thing for me to do is to skip the elliptical. And "just for today" easily turns into "maybe next week"
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
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    The new model of retail makes it really hard to work two part time jobs. The employer schedules people for 50-55 hours per week. But you have to call in an hour before your scheduled shift to see if you are needed. In the long run you are lucky if you work for 25-30 hours per week. But the employer manages to tie you up for a much greater portion of your week.
    Of course is you are unavailable for any of those scheduled shifts you are quickly dropped off the schedule or when you are called in drops to more like 18 or 20 hours.

    My niece had this problem with Pier One and a friend's daughter with Bath & Body Works.

    The friend's daughter worked the summer, Thanksgiving, Christmas for BBW. She goes to school 5 hours away. The would constantly try to schedule her for when she was at college. They would randomly change her schedule mid-week. So she would check on Sat and see that they did not schedule her for the week. Then she would get the phone call on why didn't you come in on Weds. Um... maybe because I am 5 hours away at school and you didn't have me on the schedule. Oh, but you are supposed to check the schedule everyday and I guess we forgot to send the email out to update you.

    It is a bit hard to schedule around a part time job that won't give you a consistent schedule, utilizes the whole "on call" thing but then only gives you limited hours.

    My niece did have 2 part times jobs for a bit. She worked at the Y with 3 years olds 3 days a week until noon. Pier 1 knew this. They would constantly try to schedule her for those days with a noon start time. They could not get the concept that niece could not be in two places at once.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Ocala
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    I know a lot of people working 2 jobs just fine. This generation's motto seems to be What I Can't Do rather than What I Can Do.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    6,993

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    Sigh....

    Brat, spoiled, demanding, selfish, self-centred, lazy, slob...."but she can't change everything at once"...Ummm, yes she can. If your husband died you'd have to change at once. Part of being an adult (and not just chronologically) is dealing with life's changes.

    Kick her to the kerb. Give the little darling 2 weeks to find a place to live...shared apartment with girlfriend etc. and she won't be on the street...I love those "You'll be sorry when I'm a crack whore on the street!" threats. Smile and tell her you'll wave when you drive by.

    She doesn't want to leave and is a manipulative bitch. So, who let her get away with this behaviour....and isn't it time to stop it?

    Once every 2 weeks invite her for Sunday dinner, other than that, buh-bye my little flower.

    Is this mean? No...even baby birds eventually get pushed out of the nest. Cancel anythign you contribute to: her phone, insurance, any joint accounts/credit cards, gas cards (do they still have those?)...get her some bags to carry her clothes in etc. If she's nice, let her know you'll let her take the bed in her room...and if she's really nice, her dresser too!

    Change the locks and don't give her a key.

    Time to be a parent and make your spoiled brat grow up.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    14 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
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    Feb. 15, 2010
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    2,996

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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    Whenever I see stuff like this I want to be like, "if this were your horse, would you let her step all over you like this?" No, of course you wouldn't. Treat her like a horse (metaphorically speaking). Establish boundaries, stick to them. Tell her exactly what's expected of her. I'd say ask, tell, demand...but you've already asked. You're at the tell stage. Be firm.

    There is no "suggest" and "polite" at this point. She couldn't give you the courtesy of being polite when you brought your concerns to her, why should you roll over for that?

    Like everyone else says, summarily change the password to your wireless (make it something very hard to guess. If you really want to get serious, you can also set it up so it only recognizes certain MAC addresses as being allowed, do not include her device(s)). Change the password to the netflix account (or if you can live without it, just close the account for the time being).

    If you're paying for her phone, take her off your plan. She pays for her own phone.

    Tell her you expect her to pull her weight in the barn for HER pony. If she starts slacking, you go find a free lease situation to put the pony in for a while.

    Tell her if she doesn't have the money to pay rent, she is expected to do X list of chores (dishes, vacuuming, laundry, bathroom, whatever). If she doesn't want to do that, she's expected to be working at getting a full time job or getting into school (if a 4 year college isn't on the table, like someone else said...trade school is possible, as is community college). If she's going the school route, she's expected to keep her grades at B or above.

    When she says there aren't any full time jobs, she means there aren't any full time jobs that she wants to do. There is incredible turnover in the service industry, for example.

    She does not get use of the car unless she is paying for insurance/gas. (hell, my parents were kind enough to pay for my first car, but I was expected to pay for the insurance, tags, taxes, gas, oil changes, and so on).

    You get the idea. Come up with a plan. Present the plan. Stand firm. Make sure your husband is standing with you on this. Do not deviate. Do not back down when she tantrums. She's had plenty of opportunities already, she doesn't get any more.
    I agree with you on the jobs thing. There are jobs out there for people who actively market themselves to employers, even if it is for mucking stalls or kennels. She needs to get busy getting a job...I am sure there is a gas station or a grain elevator around somewhere even in the boonies. As for another part time job "not being an option", WTF is that?! I held THREE part time jobs at one time back in the days before I had a full time job!
    Proud Member of the "I Don't Do Facebook" Clique


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #114
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    Feb. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrywood View Post
    I think parents like this need a support group, similar to al anon. It is far more widespread now than at any time I can remember.

    I don't have kids, but my niece , age 25 is partly in this category....very slow to mature, still soaking her parents for $, even though she lives with her bf and has a baby...her parents are subsidizing her while she stops works to pursue a college degree (she worked a low pay retail job). Which isn't so terrible, except that she is taking two classes a semester, and will take 8 years to finish.

    I know , through professional and, social contacts, many, many people with adult "kids " in their twenties and beyond, that the parents subsidize with cash or by $ for rent, for cars, etc...whether the kids live at home or not. I know the economy is tough, but anyone who wants to work, can find some kind of job, and young people can share apartments as roommates, or work at a barn and live there free exchange for work.

    I think every one of these kids has one thing in common...they are manipulative (I've met quite a few), and they also , many of them, have real issues that interact with their manipulation...some are, quite frankly, not that smart, and unable to do the college level work that is their parent's dream. Others are unmotivated , or think trade school is "beneath " them. Others have substance abuse, or emotional or developmental issues.

    It becomes a real ongoing problem for the parents and sometimes the entire family. It would be amazing if anyone could start forming support groups for these parents.
    The other thing they have in common is that they have never been forced to toe a line. A person can grow up overnight when the situation demands it...but first that demand has to be made.
    Proud Member of the "I Don't Do Facebook" Clique


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Feb. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I suspect there is a confusion between clinical depression and simply inertia. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

    She sits around and watches TV because yes she is lazy but also because this is what she does. She needs to learn new patterns.

    I HATE to exercise, particularly on the elliptical. The easiest thing for me to do is to skip the elliptical. And "just for today" easily turns into "maybe next week"
    Clinical depression and simple inertia both benefit from forward movement.
    Proud Member of the "I Don't Do Facebook" Clique


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
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    Feb. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Sigh....

    Brat, spoiled, demanding, selfish, self-centred, lazy, slob...."but she can't change everything at once"...Ummm, yes she can. If your husband died you'd have to change at once. Part of being an adult (and not just chronologically) is dealing with life's changes.

    Kick her to the kerb. Give the little darling 2 weeks to find a place to live...shared apartment with girlfriend etc. and she won't be on the street...I love those "You'll be sorry when I'm a crack whore on the street!" threats. Smile and tell her you'll wave when you drive by.

    She doesn't want to leave and is a manipulative bitch. So, who let her get away with this behaviour....and isn't it time to stop it?

    Once every 2 weeks invite her for Sunday dinner, other than that, buh-bye my little flower.

    Is this mean? No...even baby birds eventually get pushed out of the nest. Cancel anythign you contribute to: her phone, insurance, any joint accounts/credit cards, gas cards (do they still have those?)...get her some bags to carry her clothes in etc. If she's nice, let her know you'll let her take the bed in her room...and if she's really nice, her dresser too!

    Change the locks and don't give her a key.

    Time to be a parent and make your spoiled brat grow up.
    One thing I appreciate about your posts, Trak, is you don't let emotions (yours or anyone else's) get in the way of saying it like you see it.
    Proud Member of the "I Don't Do Facebook" Clique


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #117
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    washington state
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    I have to say I agree with Trak. But ultimately it is the parents decision whether she is allowed to be a leech at home-they are the ones allowing it. It may not be a popular thing to say but this one rests solely on the parents shoulders. The title of this OP is "Adult child won't go away"-um, since when do things just go away? Responsibilities do not just "go away" like an annoying mosquito. Children need to be raised up correctly-I am betting this one was not. This now adult cannot be expected to just "go away" when mommy gets sick of her BS that was most likely learned at her parents knee.

    Probably not going to be taken well but it is what it is
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #118
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyTuesday View Post
    And people who are busy, very busy, are not likely to sit around being depressed. They don't have time and they have body chemicals moving around and not forming sludge. My husband once knew a psychiatrist who said he never had to treat a serious hobbyist for depression because they are too busy to sit around. I'd say getting off the couch/bed away from the TV and out of the house is the first positive step.

    And I don't blame the younger sibling for resenting her sister. She should.
    Quote Originally Posted by RubyTuesday View Post
    Clinical depression and simple inertia both benefit from forward movement.
    That would be the new pattern I mentioned
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyTuesday View Post
    Clinical depression and simple inertia both benefit from forward movement.
    Clinical depression also benefits from diagnosis by a doctor, medication, and therapy. When you are mentally ill (and depression is a mental illness) it's not so easy to just "move forward".
    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
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    Jan. 20, 2007
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    Northern Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    Clinical depression also benefits from diagnosis by a doctor, medication, and therapy. When you are mentally ill (and depression is a mental illness) it's not so easy to just "move forward".
    Yes, and anger can also be a symptom of depression.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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