The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2008
    Location
    Greeley, Colorado
    Posts
    3,761

    Default Bill Nye vs. Creation Museum Founder

    They're going to debate tonight. Bill Nye is going to wipe the floor with this guy. I will definitely be watching. At the very least it will be an entertaining spectacle.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...m-nye/5177257/
    **Friend of bar.ka**

    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
    My equine soulmate


    7 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    9,408

    Default

    I kind of feel like doing it gives Ken Ham legitimacy. :/

    There have been debates over this before, and there's almost no winning them - and I'm kind of sad Bill Nye got sucked into it, since generally I think he's pretty awesome.

    And no matter WHAT is said, Ham will claim victory, while everyone else will watch and sort of scratch their heads, wondering if that really just happened.

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/shou...sts-140105.htm

    "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon -- it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    19 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2007
    Location
    ....in a classroom in Fl, by the ocean
    Posts
    3,675

    Default

    the few times I wish I had cable. I will have to find it on the interwebz later. I am going to class, if someone finds a link online will you please post it?

    Thanks!!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,095

    Default

    Sounds like a free publicity stunt for raising money for their museum.

    This fits here oh so well:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0028642422_img_4438.jpg 
Views:	101 
Size:	22.9 KB 
ID:	39346  


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2008
    Location
    Greeley, Colorado
    Posts
    3,761

    Default

    There's a livestream on CNN.com at 7eastern.
    **Friend of bar.ka**

    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
    My equine soulmate



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2008
    Posts
    2,670

    Default

    I'm kind of with caffeinated on this. Sort of a no win situation for Nye. If someone doesn't want to believe something, there is no way to make them.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Gravity works, and the laws of physics are a bitch.

    Member: Rabid Garden Snail Clique


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Eddie Izzard does a great bit on Noah's Ark!!
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    12,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by charismaryllis View Post
    I'm kind of with caffeinated on this. Sort of a no win situation for Nye. If someone doesn't want to believe something, there is no way to make them.
    You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    19 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Or this one "they have a book" (which is what Ken Ham keeps repeating.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5KvGS_wT_4
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2003
    Location
    Hollywood, but not the one where they have the Oscars!
    Posts
    7,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend.
    I love this, may I make it my sig line????
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2005
    Location
    Where the prairie ends and the mountains begin
    Posts
    2,455

    Default

    Thanks for this heads up. DH and I watched it with much interest.

    While I am agnostic, I do firmly believe that religions of the world and modern science can co-exist. But I think Ham is a nutjob. A well spoken, creative, well educated nutjob. But a nutjob nonetheless.
    Dreaming in Color


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2008
    Location
    Greeley, Colorado
    Posts
    3,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drmgncolor View Post
    Thanks for this heads up. DH and I watched it with much interest.

    While I am agnostic, I do firmly believe that religions of the world and modern science can co-exist. But I think Ham is a nutjob. A well spoken, creative, well educated nutjob. But a nutjob nonetheless.
    I agree with you. I'm all for the theory that a omnipotent being created the big bang which set the universe into motion. I don't think I personally believe that but I cannot argue that rationale.
    **Friend of bar.ka**

    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
    My equine soulmate


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2013
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    62

    Default

    I really wanted to watch this tonight, but had a truckload of work to get done :-( I am a former Christian, now atheist.....and a HUGE fan of science and the scientific method :-)

    Oh! And research! I love research!!!

    BUT I wanted to say that I came across this from Dawkin's Foundation and found it very interesting....gave me pause for thought.

    http://www.richarddawkins.net/founda...debate-ken-ham



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2005
    Location
    Where the prairie ends and the mountains begin
    Posts
    2,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dani0303 View Post
    I agree with you. I'm all for the theory that a omnipotent being created the big bang which set the universe into motion. I don't think I personally believe that but I cannot argue that rationale.
    Nope, I cannot argue that rationale and Nye didn't intend to either. I didn't think Nye was quite on his game though I could see him visibly getting pissed off towards the end.

    I will give it to Ham that he was very creative in how he spun the "science" of creationism, but it grew tiresome to hear him keep rebutting with, "There's this book that explains it all..."

    The kicker for me was Ham's rebuttal when Nye answered a question about what came before the Big Bang Theory. Nye admitted he didn't know but wanted scientists to keep striving to find the answer. Ham came back with something along the lines of, "I know because the bible tells me so."

    Facepalm. And... I'm done.
    Dreaming in Color


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2005
    Location
    Where the prairie ends and the mountains begin
    Posts
    2,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyG View Post
    I really wanted to watch this tonight, but had a truckload of work to get done
    http://debatelive.org

    They said it will be up for a few days.
    Dreaming in Color


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2013
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drmgncolor View Post
    I didn't think Nye was quite on his game though I could see him visibly getting pissed off towards the end.
    This is why the debate MAY not have been a great idea (and I was really excited for the debate when I heard about it!!). Here is this article: http://www.richarddawkins.net/founda...debate-ken-ham copied and pasted.....it IS really interesting!!



    Why Bill Nye shouldn't debate Ken Ham


    Scientists should not debate creationists. Period. This may sound harsh but let's start by looking at what sparked this statement. TV personality and science advocate Bill Nye (Bill Nye the Science Guy) has accepted an invitation to debate Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis / The Creation Museum on February 4, 2014 at the Creation Museum in Kentucky.

    This is a bad idea and here is why.

    Debating creationists offer their position credibility

    When you accept a debate, you are accepting there is something worth debating. Political ideologies are worth debating, religion as it pertains to things like human well-being and flourishing can be worth debating, because these kinds of ideas claim to offer solutions to problems and they are debating the best way to achieve such problems. Debates about the existence of God can be fun, they are not really that meaningful, but they are a debate about ideas and beliefs and can be worth effort.

    Creationism vs. evolution however is not worth debating. Why? Simple, there is nothing to debate. Evolution is a scientific fact, backed by mountains of evidence, peer-reviewed papers you could stack to the moon and an incredible scientific community consensus. Creationism is a debunked mythology that is based solely in faith. It has zero peer-reviewed papers to back up its claims, it has absolutely no scientific consensus and is not even considered science due to the fact it cannot be tested.

    Why would a scientist debate this? Nye would do more good on his own going on TV and discussing evolution and the importance of scientific education instead of giving Ken Ham any publicity and a public forum with thousands, if not millions of viewers, to spew his dishonesty. Ham is a snake oil salesmen and Nye just offered him up an infomercial to sell his product. Ham can repeat his mantra over and over; “teach the controversy”.

    Nye is not a biologist

    I do not know an incredible amount about Bill Nye other than I loved his show. However, a Google search only turned up that Nye has nothing more than a bachelor’s degree in engineering and three honorary doctorate degrees. We fault Christian apologists almost daily for trying to ride their honorary degrees, it would seem only fair we hold Nye to the same standard.

    So we have Nye, a very smart man with a degree in engineering, not biology, not anthropology, and he does not practice any form of research science. Nye should be credited greatly for his work in education; but as a qualified candidate to defend evolution, especially against the likes of conmen like Ken Ham, he is not.

    You must fully understand your opponent

    This is mere speculation but I have no reason to believe that Nye has the firm grasp on creationism that would be needed to go up against the likes of someone like Ham.

    To win a debate successfully you must understand your opponent's position better than they do, in fact, you should know it well enough that you could debate for them.

    Creationists have no rules. Nye will attempt to use proper science and reason to bring down Ham, but Ham will care little for any facts or evidence and will stick to nonsense and will feed on audience ignorance and use terms like "irreducible complexity" to confuse the watchers into thinking he has made a valid point. Key phrases like “half a wing” will fly from his lips as he openly ignores science's amazing understanding of the evolution of things like the eye, or wings. Ham will be relying on faith and pushing the biblical teachings onto the viewers and will attempt to call out anytime science could have been wrong to tear down its credibility.

    This debate is being held at the Creation Museum itself and this will ensure that the brain-dead creationist zombies come out in droves to support Ham and loudly applaud anytime he manages to string together and coherent sentence, or even more likely shouts that his grandmother was no monkey.

    I honestly think it would be fantastic to see Nye destroy Ham, but will that do any good? Suddenly a little known figure outside of his circles, Ham will be thrust into the spotlight, reaching impressionable youths around the world, and as great as it would be to see him taken down, the risks of him winning are greater.

    The American people are not going to dissect Nye’s credentials to accept such a debate and if he goes down, he will take down a lot of hard work in science with him. If the American people, who are already weary of science and already disown the idea of evolution as quickly as possible, see who in their minds is a top scientist lose to a creationist, we will have taken steps backwards in time.

    The risk versus reward in this scenario is not worth it. Nye is putting a lot at risk and he is not the man to do so.

    Creationism is a worthless and uneducated position to hold in our modern society and Nye is about to treat it as an equal, debatable "controversy."





    Quote Originally Posted by drmgncolor View Post
    http://debatelive.org

    They said it will be up for a few days.
    Thank you!! I thought it might be available...I'm going to watch it today.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2008
    Posts
    2,670

    Default

    Ah, so the old, "becuase the bible says so" fallback? Not that i ever find myself in that position, but i'm afraid my response to something like that would be to whip out my copy of The Lord of the Rings (harry potter, the epic of gilgamesh, whatever the scientologists use, some other piece of fiction, take your pick) and cheerfully respond, "well, this is MY holy book. "

    Back when i was a clinic escort, one of the fundamentalist catholics that used to picket the doctor's office we volunteered at would always come up to me with the latest bit from biblical archaelogy or whatever the magazine is, trying to convince me of the historical veracity of the bible. I finally turned to him in irritation and asked, "jim, who are you trying to convince here--you or me?" That one threw him a bit. If he believed in it, proof should not have been necessary. Which is why this Ham guy will never change his views.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Gravity works, and the laws of physics are a bitch.

    Member: Rabid Garden Snail Clique


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    9,408

    Default

    The one thing I think is sort of hilarious (I didn't watch, just read live blogs and reports) is Ham going on about "were you there?" as a way to discredit evolution. While simultaneously saying he has a book that explains it and lions were once vegetarians. Dude, were you there? No?
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    9,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drmgncolor View Post
    http://debatelive.org

    They said it will be up for a few days.
    ugh. Which means, of course, more traffic/clicks for the creation museum. bah.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,095

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    ugh. Which means, of course, more traffic/clicks for the creation museum. bah.
    Yes, it is all about the money, that is what they are saying is paying the salaries of that one fellow and his family and friends, has now for years.

    Keep the donations and fees for talks coming!
    There is one born every minute is true.



Similar Threads

  1. Founder question - can high heels cause founder?
    By 4THEHORSES in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Nov. 8, 2013, 08:02 PM
  2. Website creation software
    By rodawn in forum Off Course
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sep. 30, 2012, 05:14 PM
  3. Job Creation
    By Mike Matson in forum Off Course
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Sep. 3, 2012, 08:27 PM
  4. My newest creation! Don't laugh too hard!
    By tidy rabbit in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: May. 14, 2010, 10:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness