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  1. #41
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    Feb. 14, 2012
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    I have two kiddos and honestly sometimes I hate the situation that we're in. I LOVE my kids, don't get me wrong, but I'm pretty independent and it was hard for me to go from working 3 jobs and contributing to our bank account, to hanging out at home and making a few bucks here and there riding young horses. My husband's job is what throws the wrench in the works, 99.9999% of the time.

    I recently had a job opportunity to go work at a lovely farm. Great pay, housing, and the opportunity to learn from some really, really knowledgeable people in the field that I would love to get into. Equine rehab and baby raising. DH was supportive and we sat down and wrote down the pros and cons of my going back to work. It finally boiled down to, who is going to take care of the kids. Hubby's schedule is...erratic... at best. An "early" night is 7, but pretty often 7 turns into 9 which turns into "10 and I have to be back to the office at 4am." We all know that horses, especially those birthing babies and on intensive rehab schedules, are not a 9-5 job. Sure I could stick the girls in daycare from 6-6... but what happens when I'm on foal watch and a tricky birth happens at 4am and hubby is in the office? Or I need to change bandages at 6 and hubby is late at work? They are 2 years and 3 months... not exactly old enough to stay home by themselves and daycare late fees are $$$ (currently $10/minute at DD1's daycare). We could hire a sitter for after hours, but he/she would have to be live in. There goes my salary. While I would still be learning and growing in my field of choice (rehab), I feel like I owe it to my kids that at least ONE parent be there for them consistently.

    I had to be a big girl about it (after I threw a fit) and decline the position. Luckily I have a great friend that I can call up about ANYTHING and cry/yell/throw a fit over the phone. It really helps. I think that she is more invaluable support system than anybody who would take my kids off my hands for me for a little while, because she's always there with no questions or judgement. She's in a similar situation to me (except she has nicer horses ) so she "gets it".

    We are not living in poverty and while my mental status is shakey at best, I'm grateful for my girls. That job would have given us considerable extra, though, that would have made my horsey life and goals more attainable (lessons, clinics, etc.). However, if I'm going to blame anything, I usually choose to blame my husband's job. We CHOSE to have children.

    OTOH, one of my good friends is living with her nasty husband and they have a daughter who has very low functioning autism. Her therapists think that she is never going to talk. This girl and her husband take advantage of every single welfare opportunity offered to them. WIC, Section 8 housing, Food Stamps, free daycare (she doesn't work), etc. You name it, they've got it. They even went as far as to fake a divorce so that they could keep collecting when he got promoted and made too much. The state is going to be paying for their daughter for the rest of her life. Wife has no marketable skills, no motivation, and her husband is just a loser. They are thousands of dollars in debt. They have ACTIVELY chosen to have another child. This child has the potential to have down syndrome (via ultrasound, right now. He's not due until June). They are talking about having more children. THAT is the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I prefer them outside playing as opposed to standing in the barn aisle playing "I can crap more than you"
    New Year, New Blog... follow Willow and I here.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2010
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    yonder a bit, GA
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    Another observation that I find unusual is how many people- coworkers, acquaintances, even my dental hygienist- now that I'm 28, make comments about when I'm going to have a child, that I shouldn't wait much longer, why I haven't had any already, etc (yes all this during a tooth cleaning! Talk about cultivating an aversion to the dentist!).
    I don't want to jump to the conclusion that it's just a Southern small town thing, but none of my hometown (DC area) people or acquaintances from the northeast are amongst the people asking these questions, it's all people from my current small town. I would actually welcome a baby if it were a surprise (and it'd be a statistical anomaly given I'm on Depo lol) and I'd do everything in my power to provide for it, but in my current situation to purposefully have a child would be SO irresponsible financially and career wise. But all these people are like, "Oooh you'd be such a good mama!" Good mama or not, I would like to be a little more financially secure on my own first!
    I get that I have some friends that had kids without having their ideal jobs aligned first and they're happy where they are, but I don't think I could handle, or want to handle the stress of trying to make ends meet every month PLUS being a good, patient mom at the same time. Parenting is tough enough without having to worry about the mortgage payment plus daycare plus medical bills for an extra person etc.
    (A decidedly unhorsey) MrB knocks over a feed bucket at the tack shop and mutters, "Oh crap. I failed the stadium jumping phase."
    (he does listen!)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Jul. 24, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superminion View Post
    We CHOSE to have children.
    I thought yours were both "oops" babies?
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2011
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    Its not nowhere, but you can see it from here
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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    I thought yours were both "oops" babies?
    I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but maybe SM was referencing the fact that staying pregnant was a choice. Just because you get pregnant doesn't mean you have to have a baby
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Apr. 13, 2008
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    statistically speaking children of single parents are disadvantaged in almost every possible way. Theres a lot of research on this. Specifically Dr Sara McLanahan's work on single parent families. No question about outcomes on that... However, as a single mom by choice, I am actively trying to disprove the theory. THere are choices to be made that profoundly impact my career, and our financial options. I work in an Institution closer to home, instead of one that would highlight my strengths and promotability... I say no to overtime,when I could really use the extra earning power, a whole host of things that little by little sideline my career. But theres the fella. Hes really and truly worth it, but a former life of travel, opportunity, and yes, my horse who I had high hopes for are for sale!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezzy View Post
    SO you think it's ok to make family members take care of a person's children? Yeah sure rope the family into taking care of the kids, and don't pay them very much, b/c you know Grandma just loves the kids..
    The support system can be just that Grandma takes the kids for an evening so Mom and Dad can go out to dinner. Or for the weekend so mom/dad can have a weekend away without the kids. Which is probably healthy for their relationship.
    It can be that the family had a nice baby shower and bought all the expensive things like crib, car seat, bassinet for the couple so that they are a little better off financially.
    It could be that Grandma comes over occasionally to help clean and Grandpa helps repaint a room in the house, or do minor repairs so they don't have to pay a contractor.
    It may be Grandma/Grandpa loaning the parents money for the minivan with zero interest. Yes, parents need to pay it back.
    Having family support can be minor time and financially savings things and emotional support. Not just that Grandma takes care of kids while the parents work.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2012
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    Fern Creek, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustbreeches View Post
    I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but maybe SM was referencing the fact that staying pregnant was a choice. Just because you get pregnant doesn't mean you have to have a baby
    Yes.

    I was at a point in my life where it would have been very beneficial to my career to terminate the first pregnancy. I couldn't bring myself to do it, even knowing that I would have to make some serious sacrifices that required a total life change. With the second, again, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. My husband and I are in a loving, stable relationship and financially responsible. I am getting spayed as my 25th birthday present to myself. I know that having a third would not be responsible in our situation.

    I terminated a pregnancy in college, because I was NOT in a situation to raise a child and the man that I was with proved his loser status by dumping me the day afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I prefer them outside playing as opposed to standing in the barn aisle playing "I can crap more than you"
    New Year, New Blog... follow Willow and I here.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2010
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    Right Horse at Right Time,

    There is a special place in hell for the people who have been so awful to you.

    <<<<<<<<<<Hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I often wonder how people can be so insensitive!

    You sound like a great ma and I wish you all the best...



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
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    Is having children inconvenient and life changing? Yes.

    So is having a husband. And a horse.

    I wouldn't trade my two kids or my bonus kid (nephew who lives with us) for a simpler, easier life. That said, despite being married at 20 and pregnant at 21, we live a rather comfortable lifestyle. Dh and I are both self employed - something brought about by parenting, actually, and we both make a lot more money than we did as salaried employees. I actually lucked into my career because the graduate classes in my field were the ones offered when my mom could watch my oldest son.

    I don't really understand the negatives of the "family support system". I've watched my nieces and nephews (okay, raising one is going a bit far, but ....) all along, and my brothers, mom, stepmom, and friends have done the same for me. We are a family and we all pull together. What's the downside to that?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Sep. 4, 2012
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    Southeast US
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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    Wow, wait, is there something wrong with that?
    Not at all. In fact, I think it's the best solution to child care IF the arrangement is feasible and everyone is happy with it. I was just responding to Nezzy's accusation that I had foisted my children off on my poor suffering mother.



  11. #51
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    Apr. 14, 2007
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    Pen Argyl PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSuchPerson View Post
    Not at all. In fact, I think it's the best solution to child care IF the arrangement is feasible and everyone is happy with it. I was just responding to Nezzy's accusation that I had foisted my children off on my poor suffering mother.
    YOU are the one who said you needed a strong family support system. I see people doing it all the time. have kids then go back to work and make your family watch your kids.



  12. #52
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    Sep. 4, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezzy View Post
    YOU are the one who said you needed a strong family support system. I see people doing it all the time. have kids then go back to work and make your family watch your kids.
    And several other posters have already provided lists of the many benefits of having a strong family support system that do not involve your family providing full time day care. You made a huge unwarranted assumption and you did it quite rudely.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Well, no. Because there are many, many financially and emotionally successful women that DO have children - single moms and married moms.

    But, poor planning would certainly make things difficult; as would the wrong spouse; child(ren) with special needs; going into debt; mental or physical illness...

    I think that if you had any of the above, adding a/another child would make things even harder.

    Planning is a key component to having a family. If you don't plan well and have an unexpected pregnancy, I think it might often financially hinder a woman (or couple). Mostly because it's not one of those things you can take back....it's sort of a lifetime commitment and doesn't get *easier* or cheaper. (Of course it gets easier in some ways, but new issues arise as well.)

    Well, it's the time vs money deal.
    You spend your time making money to have the financial stability to afford child care....or you spend the time on child care.

    It's not that it can't be done, it is somewhat of a Perpetuum Mobile...you got money, you can afford the support system to continue to earn money...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  14. #54
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Well, it's the time vs money deal.
    You spend your time making money to have the financial stability to afford child care....or you spend the time on child care.

    It's not that it can't be done, it is somewhat of a Perpetuum Mobile...you got money, you can afford the support system to continue to earn money...
    And when you start with women making $.77/$1 made by men in the same field/position... it's easy to see how the slope is set for it being more economical for the woman to take the career hit to stay home with the kids rather than the man, if he's around.
    Then you figure that the mother is often the one who takes time off for all the oops that happen with kids, and not surprising that their careers can and do stagnate quickly, if they don't outright die.
    It's sad because there are some incredibly gifted women, who have alot to contribute to their fields, who are out of their fields because of this dynamic.

    Childcare is incredibly expensive, as it should be. Finding the cheapest care is alot like buying cheap meat.... you get what you pay for in the end and don't be shocked when it makes you sick.

    Having worked in daycare, had I needed to avail myself of such services with my DS, it would have been when he was older and able to talk, rather than younger and not.

    As it was, we had a care giver for a one night babysitting gig who knew my son and was in the field of early childhood education, and I learned from him that she threatened him with a 'smack' if he did not lay down and go to sleep. We got lucky and the threat was all that happened... but to me the ability for him to communicate with me, at least to some degree, was vital in trusting others with his care.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Plus of course we also look down on Stay-at-home dads...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #56
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Plus of course we also look down on Stay-at-home dads...
    We look down on both/either!
    It's sickening. Especially considering the enormous and important role that is caring for kids... yes, lets get some GED educated person who will take minimum wage to do this important job... because any dolt can do it?
    If that's how we value that job, let's not be shocked at the results.
    [sorry, this is one of my soapbox topics I am a lil passionate about].

    Someone a few weeks ago asked me if I would go back to work after DH retires... FIRST of all I DO work, around the house AND I have a small business which this person would know if they were at all interested in asking what I am up to or even a Facebook 'friend' [but then they would have to know my actual last name instead of assuming it's the same as DHs I guess]... Second of all, what business is it of anyone else's what the arrangement is between DH and I re: who 'works'

    I would love to work, I loved my former career and it gave me alot more than just income, I really defined myself by that job and my success at it. My own self esteem has takena huge hit giving up that and riding in a short span of 10 years. Than add in that I am over 45... Ugh!
    But this being a mom and a family is more important in the grand scheme of things than having things that my salary could buy.

    SIL is often saying 'you are so lucky DH works at a school so he's home all the time' [she's quite a whiner, woe-is-me'er]
    First of all he isn't, since he's involved in other work for the Autistic community he works with, and involved in other causes we both think are important for him to be part of.
    However, I would like to suggest that she chose her husband... the guy who is NEVER home, either away in other countries or working very late hours when in the states... so enjoy that second beach home... while I chose a DH who would be a father and husband and around a bit to help raise our son while we do things on a much, much smaller scale than they do.
    Luck had very little to do with it, thank you.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  17. #57
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    So California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superminion View Post
    ...I recently had a job opportunity to go work at a lovely farm. Great pay... ...It finally boiled down to, who is going to take care of the kids... ...daycare late fees are $$$ (currently $10/minute at DD1's daycare). We could hire a sitter for after hours, but he/she would have to be live in. There goes my salary...

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    ...Daycare= Cha-Ching! I went back to work for a while this summer, and ALL my pay for that month went to pay the childcare my son needed... I made $0.
    Some program I saw about budgeting suggested that unless the parent/caregiver in a partnership were to make at least $70,000 a year, it would not be economical for that caregiver to work. In the scenario being discussed the other parent was working so it was not about a single-parent situation. I thought that dollar amount sounded outrageous, but then I started thinking about the explanation: costs for daycare, special lunches and clothing for children, extra costs for lunches for parent, more spent on the family eating out, cost of work clothes and dry cleaning, increased transportation costs, sometimes add-ons like hired services for house cleaning, even the higher income tax cost, etc. Of course people can cut back in some of those areas, but the financial planner was using averages. Interesting.

    Children are expensive, more so for women who earn less than men, and who tend to get custody of children.

    I have always told my son, the key to financial success is to avoid addiction of any kind and early unplanned pregnancy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Apr. 2, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    Some program I saw about budgeting suggested that unless the parent/caregiver in a partnership were to make at least $70,000 a year, it would not be economical for that caregiver to work. In the scenario being discussed the other parent was working so it was not about a single-parent situation. I thought that dollar amount sounded outrageous, but then I started thinking about the explanation: costs for daycare, special lunches and clothing for children, extra costs for lunches for parent, more spent on the family eating out, cost of work clothes and dry cleaning, increased transportation costs, sometimes add-ons like hired services for house cleaning, even the higher income tax cost, etc. Of course people can cut back in some of those areas, but the financial planner was using averages. Interesting.

    Children are expensive, more so for women who earn less than men, and who tend to get custody of children.

    I have always told my son, the key to financial success is to avoid addiction of any kind and early unplanned pregnancy.
    I think that the decision becomes even harder the higher the income number is.

    It makes it basically untenable that I would stay home, even though we could afford to live on just hubby's income, because if I worked we'd have SO MUCH MORE, we could retire sooner, help the kids with college, buy a vacation home...OR I could not work and play with the baby. I want to, I really do, but we got used to the money and giving up a near-6 figure income to stay at home is a very difficult choice for me.

    When I'm working, I have my own money, I can buy the things I want and have hobbies like the horse. When I'm home, I'm down to asking permission for everything, even if I don't HAVE to, it feels like I have to.

    If I was making $40k a year? Yeah, sure, sign me up for stay at home parenthood. But going from $200k a year to $100k a year? Youch. It is very difficult when the parents are equal earners.

    My parents were in the same situation and put me in daycare, and I turned out fine, but my mother was the quintissential 80s career woman and I am not, at all, the same way. For her there was no question and for me, it is going to be a near-impossible decision.



  19. #59
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    Jan. 4, 2009
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    I never had any family support. We deliberately moved far away from toxic family members, and did fine. But it would have been far more difficult if my husband hadn't been a stay-at-home dad for most of our daughter's childhood.

    Rebecca



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSuchPerson View Post
    And several other posters have already provided lists of the many benefits of having a strong family support system that do not involve your family providing full time day care. You made a huge unwarranted assumption and you did it quite rudely.
    it was not rude at all. just a perspective from a person who sees this happen all the time.



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