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  1. #21
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    Well, yes, VAERS is often self-reported but many people don't even know it exists, so the chances of data going unreported is also very high. I have a friend who had a child experience partial paralysis after a vaccine (not HPV) and her doctor refused to help her report it because he didn't think it was necessarily related to the vaccine (although it happened within minutes of the vaccine and lasted 2 days). So I think the potential for non-reported adverse reactions is also very high.

    It comes down to assessing your risk. I think the HPV vaccine is very worthwhile for some people, at certain times of their life. My participation in an old thread on this subject began with me stating I didn't think it was a worthwhile risk for my pre-teen and young teen daughters when I KNEW that their current risk was zero. (At which I was then called a mother with her head in the sand).

    However, as a child's (girl or boy) risk increases, it is different. Certainly it does not seem necessary to vaccinate every 9 year old girl or boy, or every person in general, if they deem themselves not to be at risk. And yes, I agree that our daughters do need to be part of the decision-making process. By 14 or 15 (or earlier)...they should not be just told "you're getting this vaccine, it will help prevent cancer"...but be told exactly what the vaccine does, and what it does (and does not) protect them from.

    My other issue with this vaccine protocol in general is the idea that while everyone is willing to jump on the bandwagon and give it to our kids to help prevent HPV and cervical cancer, many parents are woefully behind in having basic sex ed discussions with their kids about all the other diseases they can get that can be prevented by using condoms. (Which, in theory, so can HPV). It is great that there is *something* out there to help minimize cervical cancer....but it's not the only danger to girls' fertility and health. Nor is it probably the biggest one....I think fertility is affected by many STDs that can't be vaccinated against.



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Well, yes, VAERS is often self-reported but many people don't even know it exists, so the chances of data going unreported is also very high. I have a friend who had a child experience partial paralysis after a vaccine (not HPV) and her doctor refused to help her report it because he didn't think it was necessarily related to the vaccine (although it happened within minutes of the vaccine and lasted 2 days). So I think the potential for non-reported adverse reactions is also very high.

    It comes down to assessing your risk. I think the HPV vaccine is very worthwhile for some people, at certain times of their life. My participation in an old thread on this subject began with me stating I didn't think it was a worthwhile risk for my pre-teen and young teen daughters when I KNEW that their current risk was zero. (At which I was then called a mother with her head in the sand).

    However, as a child's (girl or boy) risk increases, it is different. Certainly it does not seem necessary to vaccinate every 9 year old girl or boy, or every person in general, if they deem themselves not to be at risk. And yes, I agree that our daughters do need to be part of the decision-making process. By 14 or 15 (or earlier)...they should not be just told "you're getting this vaccine, it will help prevent cancer"...but be told exactly what the vaccine does, and what it does (and does not) protect them from.

    My other issue with this vaccine protocol in general is the idea that while everyone is willing to jump on the bandwagon and give it to our kids to help prevent HPV and cervical cancer, many parents are woefully behind in having basic sex ed discussions with their kids about all the other diseases they can get that can be prevented by using condoms. (Which, in theory, so can HPV). It is great that there is *something* out there to help minimize cervical cancer....but it's not the only danger to girls' fertility and health. Nor is it probably the biggest one....I think fertility is affected by many STDs that can't be vaccinated against.

    Just a slight correction. HPV is not prevented by condoms, as there is usually contact with the skin prior to putting one on or while using one.


    The problem occurs in that if you are a woman, who is getting tested and only has partners that get tested, there is no way for your male partner to know if they have hpv. Yes, women might contact former partners to let them know, but it is not exactly common. Even someone who practices safe sex, (which includes std testing for both partners) is at risk.

    There are more than just infertility risks associated with hpv and treatment. LEEP and cone biopsies are known risk factors for preterm delivery.

    And I'm a huge believer in there being better sex Ed in this country. I went to university and heard a lot of interesting ideas about sex. Things such as douching with Mountain Dew to prevent std and pregnancies, praying as a couple after sex, non traditional sex being completely safe.


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  3. #23
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    You can get HPV without having sex. There has been cases where the woman/girl was still a virgin and tested positive for it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    I hope none of you will ever know the feeling you get in your gut after an abnormal pap. Even when one does everything right, is careful and cautious and very selective, things can go wrong.

    My experience with HPV was devastating--emotionally. But luckily, with very fast care, it wasn't deadly. It could have been though as things were progressing faster than the literature says it does. I still get very frequent check-ups and even though I'm ok now, that fear will always lurk in the back of my mind.

    There are health professionals that support any/all vaccines There are health professionals that are more skeptical. There are health professionals that support the ACA. There are health professionals that don't. To hold up any one individual's opinion as infallible is lunacy. And to assume that you can control or account for every thing that might happen to you throughout life...well that's just plain bat crap crazy.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Show boots View Post
    You do realize that VAERS data is pretty spotty. 1) you can report any illness even if it is unrelated to the vaccine. So if you get a vaccine, and an illness you can report it. You also report deaths, and of all of the deaths less than a handful have been attributed to Gardasil. Heck this study includes someone reporting death from Gardasil, even though the cause of death was drug overdose.
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/jama.html
    2). Data is self reported, and once a vaccine gets bad press the reports go up.
    I think there is a lot of confusion here. The purpose of VAERS is not to DETERMINE whether or not certain side affects are a result of vaccines, it is to provide data that the FDA/CDC can easily access in order to investigate whether or not certain side affects are in fact linked to a vaccine. One cannot look at what conditions have been reported through VAERS and come to ANY conclusions with regards to whether or not those conditions were associated in any way with the vaccine. It simply provides a crucial way to share information so that the experts can analyze that information. In and of itself, that information means nothing.

    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm179549.htm

    LauraKY, can you provide more information regarding all the deaths due to Gardasil? I'm genuinely curious, as I have not seen any credible evidence that they ever happened.



  6. #26
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    I got it even though BF and I had been together for awhile at that point (still together btw). I'm glad I did it. No adverse reactions.
    No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotted draft x filly View Post
    You can get HPV without having sex. There has been cases where the woman/girl was still a virgin and tested positive for it.
    From what I can find on the internet, that seems extraordinarily rare. There's the possibility of prenatal transmission (in which case you'd be exposed long before the vaccine) and controversial evidence of blood transmission. Everything else is sexually transmitted.



  8. #28
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    Co-worker's sister's husband cheated on her on a business trip. Supposedly used a condom. Gave his wife HPV, yes she divorced him for cheating on her. She had to be treated surgically less than a year after the treatment for HPV. I am sure she wished she had the vaccine if it had been available when she was younger. She sure thought she was in a monogamous relationship.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I am sure she wished she had the vaccine if it had been available when she was younger. She sure thought she was in a monogamous relationship.
    If she had been given it at age 11 it would likely have been long gone anyway. (Not taking anything away from her situation, that stinks.) But the vaccine will not last forever, which is one more reason I hate that it is being pushed on 9 year olds.


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    I hope none of you will ever know the feeling you get in your gut after an abnormal pap. Even when one does everything right, is careful and cautious and very selective, things can go wrong.
    Yep. Imagine the horror and guilt and mortification associated with the diagnosis of ANAL cancer. Imagine strangers assuming nasty things about your sex life, despite the fact that any body part can develop a cancerous tumor at any time for any reason. Imagine being told you'll never have a[nother] child or that your child will never give you grandchildren because the radiation treatment necessary to save your/his/her life will render you/him/her sterile. Yes, I have learned to tell the judgypants jerks off, but why should that be on me?

    An estimated 66 children a day in the U.S. are injured in shopping cart accidents. That’s one child injured badly enough every 22 minutes to go to the emergency room, or more than 24,000 children a year, according to research from Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. That's far, far more than have adverse effects from any vaccination, yet parents aren't freaking out about putting their babies in shopping carts.

    Anti-vaccination people make me feel stabby.
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    If she had been given it at age 11 it would likely have been long gone anyway. (Not taking anything away from her situation, that stinks.) But the vaccine will not last forever, which is one more reason I hate that it is being pushed on 9 year olds.
    How do you know this? Links to peer-reviewed articles from respected scientific journals showing real-life scientific evidence will suffice as far as providing evidence. Thanks in advance.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    If she had been given it at age 11 it would likely have been long gone anyway. (Not taking anything away from her situation, that stinks.) But the vaccine will not last forever, which is one more reason I hate that it is being pushed on 9 year olds.
    That may not be true, although it's too soon to tell for sure.

    http://www.translational-medicine.com/content/8/1/105

    "Does the vaccine activate the immune-memory system?
    In other words, is it stated that vaccines will induce a generation of long-life memory immune cells that, after re-exposure to the relevant antigen, generate a potent immune response preventing HPV infection?

    The mechanisms of long-term immune-protection by means of memory B-cells have been, once again, elucidated for the hepatitis B virus vaccine, whose evoked-immunity appears similar to that of the HPV vaccination [35]. Certainly, memory B cells play an important role in effective immunization and in the memory-mechanism that produces antibodies in response to further antigenic challenges [36]. Indeed, circulating B memory cells can be detected soon after HPV bivalent vaccination [37]. "



  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    How do you know this? Links to peer-reviewed articles from respected scientific journals showing real-life scientific evidence will suffice as far as providing evidence. Thanks in advance.
    Sorry, should probably have said *may* be long gone. My own OB/GYN is concerned about how long this will last (and therefore recommends putting it off as long as "safely" possible), and interviews I have read (including the CBS one on this thread) say thing like *if* it lasts 15 years. So I was under the impression that it was never expected to be a lifelong protection.



  14. #34
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    Another nifty side effect of radiation to the pelvic region is tissue damage to the point that I will never be able to properly canoe OR kayak again.

    I never expected an HPV vaccination to last a lifetime any more than pertussis or tetanus lasts a lifetime. Boosters aren't a sign of failure.
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFlyinBey++ View Post
    Boosters aren't a sign of failure.
    I know you have a personal issue here, but no one is saying that this is a failure. It's simply not a good argument to say that someone in their 30s or 40s would "have wished they had gotten the vaccine when they were younger." Even if they had, there is no reason to believe it would protect them.

    Some people are adamantly against this vaccine, but many of us are not - we're only against the rampant and full-on push to vaccinate every single 9-11 year old girl and boy, regardless of their sexual activity (or lack thereof). Because there are potential dangers to EVERY vaccine (or treatment, or medication), these should be weighed against the risk of the actual threat of disease.

    That's all.



  16. #36
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    You do realize that the vaccinations are suggested for 9 year olds because statistically they start experimenting with kissing, touching and yes, some do have sex that young and it is imperative that they're given protection as soon as possible? And you do realize that the suggestion that since the long-term efficacy is questionable and thus the potential need for booster shots is most definitely a suggestion that the overall vaccine for HPV is a failure?

    I am 44 and I DO wish there had been a vaccine available prior to my first experience at age 17 because it would have reduced my risk of being one of the special few chosen at random to actually develop disease. It is as viable an argument for vaccination as is your argument to roll the dice and risk your child's health and reproductive system based on your assessment against the risk of side effect from vaccination and the actual threat of disease. Bless your heart and good luck to your kids.
    Last edited by HighFlyinBey++; Jan. 23, 2014 at 12:34 PM. Reason: That is all.
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    I know you have a personal issue here, but no one is saying that this is a failure. It's simply not a good argument to say that someone in their 30s or 40s would "have wished they had gotten the vaccine when they were younger." Even if they had, there is no reason to believe it would protect them.

    Some people are adamantly against this vaccine, but many of us are not - we're only against the rampant and full-on push to vaccinate every single 9-11 year old girl and boy, regardless of their sexual activity (or lack thereof). Because there are potential dangers to EVERY vaccine (or treatment, or medication), these should be weighed against the risk of the actual threat of disease.

    That's all.
    The CDC is currently recommending vaccines for 11-12 year olds.

    http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-vaccine-hcp.htm



  18. #38
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    I think the push for younger girls has to do with that 25% of girls have engaged in intercourse at 15. This is actual intercourse it does not include other sexual activities. (Kinsey institute) I can't find a statistic about age of first oral sex but lets say the percentage of girls that have engaged in oral by 15 is close to double.

    Once a teenager engages in sex , 2/3 of those that have had sex have had multiple partners.

    It seems the approach is to get the series done prior to puberty, and first sexual contact of any kind.



  19. #39
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    The percentage of 15-year-olds who have practiced oral sex is not close to 50%: http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationshi...ex-intercourse. According to new numbers from the CDC it's about 23% of girls ages 15-19. 55% of 15-19-year-olds have had oral sex or sexual intercourse.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; Jan. 23, 2014 at 03:49 PM.



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    The percentage of 15-year-olds who have practiced oral sex is not close to 50%: http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationshi...ex-intercourse. According to new numbers from the CDC it's about 16% of girls ages 15-19. 55% of 15-19-year-olds have had sex.


    Your leaving out numbers from your own article. 7.1% are engaging in oral sex without having vaginal intercourse, and 15.9% engaged in oral sex prior to having intercourse. I will assume those that are having sex are likely also engaging in oral contact. So thats 50+ percent engaging in sex. It says 45.8% of 15-19 year old females have not engaged in any sex.

    http://www.childtrends.org/?indicato...rs-among-teens



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