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  1. #21
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    Sep. 13, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Agree with J4J - the one time cost for a pump is much less expensive than the ED pills which can have pretty nasty side effects.

    Why have PP for guys past a certain age - just an observation based on interesting conversations with DH confirmed by medical sources. Starting with puberty males "are aroused" multiple times throughout the day and night. During their teen years - there is often no reason - which can make it extremely embarrassing. For most males, once puberty ends, the erection is a common and "comforting" occurance - after all it is step one in reproduction.
    Very simply - it is what makes them a "man".
    So when males loss this ability it really affects their self-worth. Just like some women are strongly tied to their ability to have children and become severely depressed if they are unable or when they hit menopause.
    Another thought many of those guys are married. When young their wives understood without certain protection they would become pregant. Now their wives are in menopause and are able to enjoy sex without any concern of becoming pregant and the husband is not available. . . .
    As always these thing raise more questions. I don't know the answers. But I do know you have to ask the right questions. When it comes to the right to health care, does this extend to the right to a feel like a man, or a woman? Or the right or a healthy relationship? The right to have children, or the right to not have children.Or a right to feel good about yourself? If these things are rights, who bestows these rights on us or for us? Who promised us these things?
    How do the providers of health care decide what is necessary, or important, Typically,medicine treats disease, or injury. Are we redefining disease?
    Further, if we have a socialized health system that we all share the pool in, and have a stake in, then who decides how that money will be spent? We don't trust insurance companies, because we say, hey, I paid for that, now you won't do it!
    So once the government takes it over, do I get to say then, hey, did I agree to pay for that? What that is, is the question.


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  2. #22
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    seems to me that penis pumps and Viagra should be sold out of "adult equipment" stores and paid for out of pocket. Medicare and medical insurance should only cover medically necessary items, and last time I checked, no one has yet to die or even suffer disability from "lack of sex".

    Women do die and suffer disability from "lack of birth control" though.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jun. 25, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wirt View Post
    As always these thing raise more questions. I don't know the answers. But I do know you have to ask the right questions. When it comes to the right to health care, does this extend to the right to a feel like a man, or a woman? Or the right or a healthy relationship? The right to have children, or the right to not have children.Or a right to feel good about yourself? If these things are rights, who bestows these rights on us or for us? Who promised us these things?
    How do the providers of health care decide what is necessary, or important, Typically,medicine treats disease, or injury. Are we redefining disease?
    Further, if we have a socialized health system that we all share the pool in, and have a stake in, then who decides how that money will be spent? We don't trust insurance companies, because we say, hey, I paid for that, now you won't do it!
    So once the government takes it over, do I get to say then, hey, did I agree to pay for that? What that is, is the question.
    Yes- I don't have the answers, only more and more questions.

    IMO - we, as a society, need to decide whether all products related to both male and female "reproductive systems" are covered by insurance or not.
    Plus this must be reviewed every 1-2 years to keep up with medical advances.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  4. #24
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    One need only watch about 2 hours of regular TV evening programs and notice the Ad-nauseam libeto commercials. The pharmaceutical companies make the natural aging process and resulting life changes relating to intimacy something to fret about. It is an extension of our adolescent American culture that business can cash in on.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Oct. 29, 2001
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    Colorado
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    My issue is not that PP are paid for out of Medicare. I don't even much care for the argument of are men's erections tied to their self worth, maybe, hell in a lot of cases probably.

    What I take issue with is that the government pays DOUBLE retail cost. And people focus on the ACA like that's their fault. Every problem with health expenditures in this country go hand in hand. The fact is that this country's medical institutions charge astronomical rates for procedures, shots, tests, and these rates are NOT mandated or controlled by the government.

    There was an exceptionally good article like a year ago in time magazine highlighting these issues and how they correspond with insurance costs. One factoid that comes to mind is that an MRI in this country costs $7,000, whereas is most European countries it's less than half that.

    ANother really excellent example, my BO's young daughter broke her leg a couple of years ago. Family doesn't make enough to afford a traditional family insurance plan, so the just have major medical/accident coverage. Took daughter to ER, got an Xray and a cast. Cost: $750. Takes paperwork and submits to their insurance company. Receives check 6 weeks later.... for $1500. BO calls company to clear up discrepancy and is told "no, no, that is what the hospital charges us.' What????

    Hospitals have a sliding scale of charges for procedures, depending on if the individual is paying out of pocket or what insurance company they have. The ACA isn't the big bag some people want to make it out to be. But it's not a whole solution either. The health care system in the country is ****ed, and there is no simple, cut and dry answer.
    You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.


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  6. #26
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Maryland has a new program to limit hospital costs, this will be a program to watch, if it succeeds, I'm guessing we will see a nationwide roll out eventually.

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles...rges-statewide
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  7. #27
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atypical View Post
    My issue is not that PP are paid for out of Medicare. I don't even much care for the argument of are men's erections tied to their self worth, maybe, hell in a lot of cases probably.

    What I take issue with is that the government pays DOUBLE retail cost. And people focus on the ACA like that's their fault. Every problem with health expenditures in this country go hand in hand. The fact is that this country's medical institutions charge astronomical rates for procedures, shots, tests, and these rates are NOT mandated or controlled by the government.

    There was an exceptionally good article like a year ago in time magazine highlighting these issues and how they correspond with insurance costs. One factoid that comes to mind is that an MRI in this country costs $7,000, whereas is most European countries it's less than half that.

    ANother really excellent example, my BO's young daughter broke her leg a couple of years ago. Family doesn't make enough to afford a traditional family insurance plan, so the just have major medical/accident coverage. Took daughter to ER, got an Xray and a cast. Cost: $750. Takes paperwork and submits to their insurance company. Receives check 6 weeks later.... for $1500. BO calls company to clear up discrepancy and is told "no, no, that is what the hospital charges us.' What????

    Hospitals have a sliding scale of charges for procedures, depending on if the individual is paying out of pocket or what insurance company they have. The ACA isn't the big bag some people want to make it out to be. But it's not a whole solution either. The health care system in the country is ****ed, and there is no simple, cut and dry answer.
    Those prices are largely negotiated between the hospitals and the Insurance companies.

    What those costs also cover are the uninsured or underinsured care that the hospital provides but does not get paid for... in essence Romneys famous guy in his apt. having a heart attack whom we treat... but who can not pay for the services he receives. For every paid procedure or medication, there are several that are not. The cost of the one that gets paid covers that procedure/medication and a portion of those who can not/do not pay.

    The health care industry in this country is actually Sick Care.
    We need Health Care, in which people get nutrition and exercise advice, as well as care for costly chronic conditions so that we do not end up paying exhorbitent costs to treat untreated diseases/disorders when they present in an acute phase at the ER which gets treated as a primary care provider.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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  8. #28
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    This part isn't correct.
    "Hospitals have a sliding scale of charges for procedures, depending on if the individual is paying out of pocket or what insurance company they have."

    Hospitals have one CHARGEMASTER and that is their list of charges for each service. It is like "retail" price or "rack rate" on a hotel room. They do have a different list of amounts they will accept for payment for each charge. That depends on who is paying (insurance, medicare,medicaid, personal pay) and is determined by their contracts with those payers.
    RoseLane Sporthorses-Westfalen horses and ponies
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  9. #29
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    Oct. 29, 2001
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    Colorado
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    Honeylips, thank you for reiterating my point, but having the accurate language. Sliding scale was not accurate, rates they will accept depending on carrier due to Chargemaster, is.

    And yes, those costs are there due to having to pay for the uninsured, which is part of the reason behind the ACA. So that everyone is insured. But still compared to other 1st world countries, the prices are exorbitant.
    You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    May. 30, 2006
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    Little Rhody
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    So, when is Medicare going to start paying for facelifts? I'm starting to feel less like a woman and more like a basset hound every time I look in the mirror. My self imagine is taking a beating! Does that count?


    14 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Nov. 6, 2001
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    Fairfax
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    Several unrelated.observations:

    First, LOVE the title of the thread
    Second, my self worth is tied to having a nice 4 yr holsteiner. Can we get that paid for?
    Third, IMO, neither penis pumps, Viagra or BC (excluding BC taken for current medical conditions) should be paid for using taxpayer funding/subsidies.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Sep. 13, 2012
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    332

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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    seems to me that penis pumps and Viagra should be sold out of "adult equipment" stores and paid for out of pocket. Medicare and medical insurance should only cover medically necessary items, and last time I checked, no one has yet to die or even suffer disability from "lack of sex".

    Women do die and suffer disability from "lack of birth control" though.
    On your first point, I agree. I can understand a doctor recommending a PP, and medicare covering the visits. Why then do they need to buy the pump, and pay double what it would cost if you just went to the store and bought it yourself. Why should they pay for the device at all?

    To your other point, and I do not want to start an abortion debate or anything like that at all here, but aside from rape, or gynecological problems relating to giving birth, lack of birth control will not hurt them, if no one forced them to have sex. It goes back to the core question of rights. Do we have a right to have sex, along with a right to an erection or a right to feel good bout ourselves? Because it feels good? Having sex is still a choice,(should be) so is not getting pregnant. Is it the government job to insure that a woman should not get pregnant, when there are no health issues involved?
    If the government is willing to pay for an abortion, why don't they encourage vasectomies and pay for those? That would solve the abortion issue pretty quickly. Personally, I would much rather get a vasectomy, freeze some of my sperm, then have a woman I love get an abortion. Where does personal choice, responsibility, enter into this?
    Maybe I just started another thread. lol


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Jul. 31, 2002
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    Harrisonburg, VA
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    MEDICARE is by AGE, so shouldn't pay for any of this stuff...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinL View Post
    MEDICARE is by AGE, so shouldn't pay for any of this stuff...
    The majority of Medicare is by age. However if the person is disabled and qualifies for Social Security they eventually.
    One of the conditions that causes ED is diabetes. Long term diabetes can cause kidney failure and require dialysis, End Stage Renal Disease. (ESRD) Therefore if somebody has diabetes and ESRD they can have ED due to a disease. The ESRD qualifies them for SS. He can qualify for Medicare either or the 1st month or the 3rd month of dialysis depending on what type of dialysis.

    If the person had juvenile diabetes or got diabetes young they may be fairly young and still qualify for Medicare.

    Remember what seemed "OLD" when you were a teenager versus now is very different. 65 is not that old anymore. My parents are 64 and 66. My in-laws are 81 and 83, heck my grandmom is still alive at 92. Grandmom isn't doing anything but I guarantee both sets of parents are still having some fun. So just because you turn 65 magically you shouldn't need/want sex.

    When I was paying insurance many years ago to pay for a PP there had to be an underlying medical diagnosis such as paralysis, diabetes, side effect of a heart medication etc.... before we would pay for a PP. Viagra wasn't around yet.

    Since a number of medications can cause ED do we want to discourage patients from taking a life saving drug when another device or drug can counteract that side effect?

    Yes, I think paying two times retail is a problem but I don't see a problem with the device or the drugs for ED.

    I really don't like the argument that sex isn't a right therefore insurance shouldn't have to pay for it. Is getting pregnant and having kids a right? If so, should insurance have to pay for fertility drugs? How about embryo transplant or surrogate mothers? Where do you draw a line?

    When I first started paying health claims pregnancy was not covered under many of the policies I administered. This was only back in 1989. It is neither due to an accidental injury or a sickness. It was a choice and a natural biological process. As the fees associated with a routine delivery and hospital stay became more expensive more policies added it to coverage. It was a selling point for employers.

    Guess what health insurance pays for lots of things that are a result of life-style choices. I don't have/want children. So maybe I don't think insurance should pay for pregnancy related expenses. I don't smoke- sorry people with lung cancer- no treatment for you.
    Oh I am fat so no high blood pressure meds for me since you are a healthy weight.
    Once you start restricting treatment by age you start opening the thoughts that maybe it is okay to decline medical care based on age. My grandmom broke both her hips last year. One she had repaired and one was a total hip replacement. Was she too old for the hip replacement?
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    May. 2, 2011
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    Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn4jenny View Post
    It's a perfectly valid way to treat erectile dysfunction. It's a lot cheaper than paying for pills (Viagra and such are typically $10+ per pill whereas a penis pump is about $140 as a one-time expense) and using a penis pump can, in some cases, restore natural erectile function.

    As for men having a "right" to a natural erection, I don't know about all that, but I do know that ED can wreak havoc on a man's intimate relationships. It's a factor in about 20% of all divorces. It can have major consequences for the man's self esteem in other areas of his life. God knows women should understand that sort of domino effect from enduring a lifetime of being told that they're not pretty enough, smart enough, or interesting enough. And if a man ends up depressed and divorced--or worse, stressed out to the point of developing heart problems or something--that is a LOT more expensive than prescribing him a $140 penis pump.

    So personally, I have no problem with Medicare covering penis pumps in cases where it makes good medical sense. I'm concerned that they're overpaying for them and I would like to see that corrected, but it's a perfectly valid medical issue and pumps are still cheaper than pills.
    I get where your coming from however, the same reasoning can apply to women as well. As you point out, ED can cause self esteem & image issues for men; pockets of fat on a woman's stomach, hips, or upper thighs can cause self esteem problems for them too. Should Medicare pay for a tummy tuck or lipo? I get angry (OP, not at you personally, just in general) when purchasing penis pumps is justified b/c the man might suffer image problems, yet treatments that may help women are denied. I'm not doing a good job making my point, I suppose. I'm not arguing that Medicare should pay the costs of lipo or plastic surgery for women, I'm arguing Medicare should not pay for penis pumps for men.
    "When a president can pick and choose which laws to follow and which to ignore, he is no longer a president. " Ted Cruz


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    On the healthcare billing drama. Yep, one can qualify for Medicare on something other than age...ESRD, disability, Black Lung Disease, right off the top of my head.

    I work in healthcare billing. We always bill at 100% of our fee schedule, but we book revenue based on what we expect to be paid...which depends on the contract. The contract might be between us and the federal government (Medicare), the state government (Medicaid), a commercial insurer, or an individual. In the case of individuals, they may be pre-approved for indigent waivers of between 0% and 90%...based on pre-determined evaluation of their ability to pay.


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  17. #37
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonriverfarm View Post
    I worked for a state senator for many years. When I had been there about a month, he called me from the senate floor to go look in his drawer for a bill that needed to be brought in. In the drawer was a penis pump. I was just without words. I never asked why it was in his office, never let my mind go to whether it had been used, or by who, etc. I liked my job but that was not the last time the pump came to my attention.
    For those condoning the gubment paying for erections, on the assumption that it is medically/emotionally necessary for men to get it up, how bout asking same gubment to pay for my horse and his care, since not getting to ride all week due to having a JOB affects my relationships,makes me quite bitchy and cuts down on exercise which in turn might make me less healthy.
    Am I the only one who read this and wondered why the senator is using a penis pump at work?


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  18. #38
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    First thing that I thought of was this was equivalent to breast reconstruction.


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  19. #39
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    First thing that I thought of was this was equivalent to breast reconstruction.
    Which does have federal laws regarding coverage of post mastectomy breast reconstructions.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  20. #40
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    He was a Democrat :-)



    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    Am I the only one who read this and wondered why the senator is using a penis pump at work?
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