The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 26 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 504
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default I Truly Don't Care WHAT You Believe. But, You Don't Get To Legislate Those Beliefs.

    So many threads flying here where Christians & other conservatives feel persecuted.

    I truly don't care whether you believe homosexuality is a sin, evolution isn't real, or the earth is flat. Really, most people don't care what you believe.

    But, here's the thing: you can't force your beliefs on me via legislation.

    The right wing republicans seem to have forgotten that this Country was founded on the seperation of church and State.

    Nobody cares what you do at home or at church. Why can't you just be content to believe what you believe without trying to: 1. legislate your version of "morality" or 2. passing judgment on those who believe something else.

    Why can't you just live & let live?
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    74 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2005
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    4,598

    Default

    If no one cared what you do at home or at church the whole DD fiasco would not have gotten any attention. Obviously, lefters care just as much as righters.
    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
    Little Star Chihuahua Rescue
    The Barkalicious Bakery
    On Facebook!!!


    11 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2009
    Posts
    3,507

    Default

    I don't think Christians are being persecuted. Going to say that right up front.

    This post by Guillherme though, is good, and I think it bears repeating.

    How about when religion is used to advance one of these views? The entire civil rights movement (from about 1830 to the present day) was almost exclusively lead by Christian ministers of one stripe or another. There were counter voices, but to ignore the fact that devout Christians got dogs set on them, doused with water cannon, and even murdered in the advancement of their beliefs is notable.

    Also notable is the FACT that these devout Christians who believed in racial equality were quite willing to impose their view upon others using the courts, the ballot box, and the street as means to their end.

    So your assertion that it is somehow always wrong to try to "control others" is demonstrably incorrect. Indeed, we have a vast array of civil and criminal and administrative law that seeks to control an ever widening spectrum of human behavior.
    Keep in mind that I'm also pro-LGBT, pro birth control, pro women's health rights and vote progressive.

    We all impose our thoughts and beliefs on other people. All of us do it, every day, which is what legislation IS.

    It's not bad or evil to have different views. Those differences are what allow us to work together to have good solutions. We need both.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2010
    Posts
    2,510

    Default

    Why couldn't you have been happy with the 16 other threads that are a variation on this theme?

    The reverse of your thesis is that YOU don't get legislate against MY beliefs or force me to betray them.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2009
    Posts
    3,507

    Default

    Then don't use birth control, don't have an abortion and don't marry a same sex partner. Easy peasy.
    Laura, the gay marriage thing I don't get, but the abortion thing is about believing that having one is tantamount to murder.

    I'm assuming you'd be against murder, correct?

    Again, I'm pro-choice, but I do see a stickier moral issue with regard to abortion than just trying to control another.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default

    RE: Duck Dynasty. I don't get that at all. I've never seen the show, but just based on its premise, I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that is what those people believe. Look at who they are. Of COURSE that is how they think. But, it is a TV show & they sell some product. Anybody who doesn't want to contribute to that can easily not watch or not buy. Doesn't seem too hard to me.

    The reverse of your thesis is that YOU don't get legislate against MY beliefs or force me to betray them.
    ah, but here's what you don't get. In "my" legislation, nobody is forcing you to betray your beliefs. Don't believe in gay marriage, don't have a same sex marriage or attend a church that performs them. Don't believe in birth control? Don't take it. Don't believe in abortion? Don't have one. You are always free to do or not do as you will. What you want is to tell other people what they can and can't do. And that isn't ok.
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    34 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,515

    Default

    I agree 100% with keeping religion and politics completely unrelated. Neither have ANY business being related to one another. There should be a complete and total separation of church and state at all times concerning all topics.

    The problem is with the politicians and not the religious sects or the non-religious groups/individuals.
    Once organized groups from either side can and do pressure and sway politics and political policies. They can't do that if the politicians don't allow that. Politicians and political policy laws *need* to be stronger and vehemently enforced across the boards. You can't stop groups from lobbying, but you can stop the policies that allow their lobbying to have results.

    Politics are a big business, we need 100% truth and transparency in that area.

    And to back that up, news sources should not be biased because the vast majority of Americans are completely unable to think for themselves, to research in an unbiased manner, etc.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default

    I can see where abortion would be tougher than some of the others.

    But, what I always find ironic is that "prolifers" are prolife right up until the first breath. Then, it is no social services, no food stamps. If they're so heavily invested in getting it here, why not care what happens to it once it is actually here?
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    47 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
    Posts
    9,342

    Default Disclaimer; I am not a Republican or a Christian

    The right wing republicans seem to have forgotten that this Country was founded on the seperation of church and State.
    that statement is factually inaccurate. There is nothing in the constitution that addresses the issue of separation of church and state. Several states had established state religions in the early years of the country with the founders' approval.

    And as a practical matter beliefs are components of most legislation.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default

    Politics are a big business, we need 100% truth and transparency in that area.
    This is so true. Religion is but one of many problems in the lobbying arena.
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2009
    Posts
    3,507

    Default

    But, what I always find ironic is that "prolifers" are prolife right up until the first breath. Then, it is no social services, no food stamps. If they're so heavily invested in getting it here, why not care what happens to it once it is actually here?
    I'm wondering though if they are actually the same people. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, know what I mean?

    Because we only have two parties, the message gets to be more about what we are against instead of what we are for. We make hard choices about which are the "lesser of evils" instead of really advocating for what we believe in.

    Some struggle with some of those programs because they see their local churches and charities doing so much. They feel that having venues to freely give is better than the government taking.

    Some really are ungenerous and haven't thought about it, but I find them to be the minority. And some people really are just judgey pants on both sides.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2009
    Posts
    3,507

    Default

    Once organized groups from either side can and do pressure and sway politics and political policies. They can't do that if the politicians don't allow that. Politicians and political policy laws *need* to be stronger and vehemently enforced across the boards. You can't stop groups from lobbying, but you can stop the policies that allow their lobbying to have results.
    I do agree with this. Particularly related to money.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2007
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Ah, but in your legislation, are you using my funds to pay for someone's abortion. If I believe abortion is murder I would have a big problem with my funds being used to support it.

    (FWIIW, I am not pro-choice but I am very sensitive to the conflict any woman would face if choosing an abortion. What I am very disappointed in, is our country's inability to move beyond this argument to a place where women either do not feel that abortion is the only option or where abortion is not needed in the first place so we don't have to even debate it. I probably did not express myself well here, but just to be clear, I do not judge women who have had abortions. I have not been on their journey nor walked their road, so I cannot sit in judgement on them.)


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 2010
    Posts
    1,433

    Default

    Mr Robertson didn't do anything. He said something that reflects his beliefs. All sorts of people raged that he does not agree with THEM! Tough. THe folks who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding have been slammed. TOUGH. They don't agree and there are plenty of places to buy cakes. WHo is trying to control others?
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein


    12 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default

    that statement is factually inaccurate
    respectfully disagree. Thomas Jefferson originally used the phrase in writing in an 1802 letter.

    The Supreme Court wrote in either 1878 or 1879 (Reynolds v. United States) that Jefferson's words, "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration on the scope and effect of the First Amendment".
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Omg, what are the evil Republicans trying to legislate now??! Last time I checked the Dems had control of everything, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. God and family are dying principles in this country do don't fret yourself. Yeah Liberals never legislate anything. Thank goodness they have our best interest at heart, and never complain!


    BTW, I am being quite sarcastic. I'm not sure what your gripe is, but why can't you just be happy??!


    12 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2005
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    4,598

    Default

    Applause. And the answer to your question on who is trying to control whom is clear as glass. hint: it's not the conservatives.


    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Mr Robertson didn't do anything. He said something that reflects his beliefs. All sorts of people raged that he does not agree with THEM! Tough. THe folks who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding have been slammed. TOUGH. They don't agree and there are plenty of places to buy cakes. WHo is trying to control others?
    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
    Little Star Chihuahua Rescue
    The Barkalicious Bakery
    On Facebook!!!


    9 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2010
    Posts
    543

    Default

    Mr Robertson didn't do anything. He said something that reflects his beliefs. All sorts of people raged that he does not agree with THEM! Tough. THe folks who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding have been slammed. TOUGH. They don't agree and there are plenty of places to buy cakes. WHo is trying to control others?
    If you read up a few posts, you'll see that I don't care what the DD clan has to say on racism, homosexuality, or anything else.

    The bakery incident is different. Think back to before the civil rights movement. African Americans were frequently denied service simply because they were African American. While on the surface it is easy to think, "Who cares about a stupid cake"? really it is a larger discrimination issue.
    You don't have to be good to start, but you do have to start to be good.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr. 19, 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Whether it's factual or not, separation of church and state is one of the things we, who fear the imposition of a theocracy, hold very near and dear about this country. We have the freedom to be a christian or not be a christian... unless, of course, christian law becomes the law of the land.

    So when does a fetus become a person? Scientifically, when the fetus becomes separated from the womb. When imposing law, that is the criteria that should be considered, and nothing more. Christian values, opinions, morals, and law do not apply to the law of the land.

    That's just one example. I don't understand why christians think they are being persecuted when their impositions are rejected legislatively. That is so backwards there almost must be a disconnect in communication here, so this is a good thread to start the discussion on.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
    Posts
    9,342

    Default

    I love Jefferson and am quite familiar with his letter to the Danbury Baptist. But he was just one of several founders and that letter reflects his opinion, which was not included in the constitution.

    The bill of rights prevents the federal government from establishing a national religion but says nothing about individual states. Furthermore many (most) states had established (government sanctioned and funded) religions for several years after the signing of the constitution. The idea of separation of church and state has evolved over the 200 plus years of our country's history. But it was not a founding principle. And even today it is not in the constitution, which is the document that defines the structure of our country.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


    6 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 218
    Last Post: Dec. 12, 2013, 08:59 PM
  2. Replies: 113
    Last Post: Apr. 23, 2011, 07:13 AM
  3. Replies: 45
    Last Post: Apr. 28, 2010, 02:45 PM
  4. What are your religious beliefs?
    By Lazy Palomino Hunter in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: Apr. 11, 2010, 02:53 AM
  5. Replies: 105
    Last Post: Aug. 23, 2002, 01:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •