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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    If I'm reading Coyoteco's point correctly, it seems he/she believes that these folks were doing that just to make a fuss, as opposed to being innocent and being denied. And that does happen, people often walk into a Lion's Den just so they can make a fuss. I'm not sure that is the case here, but like I mentioned before, I missed the whole bruhaha, so I may not have all the facts.

    Regardless of intent, it sounds like the action was against the law, which is kind of a tricky law IMO, but I'm not sure if I see a better way of doing things.

    Again, and for the record, I think they should be able to buy cupcakes. I'm just talking about the legal part.

    Related to intestate laws, there are loads of weird situations related to that. One *should* check your State's laws
    It doesn't matter whether a customer orders a cake or a cupcake or why, if a customer is denied service simply because of his or her sexuality, that is bigotry on the part of the business. Since when is bigotry unimportant? Why should the customer keep quiet about it?


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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    They re horrible people because they went out to find a person to bully. They had many places from which to order cupcakes. They selected this man because they knew of his beliefs and they wanted to punish him for his beliefs. He was polite to them and said he'd be happy to serve them for any other event and he welcomed them as customers.
    They are intolerant bullies. That is what I mean.

    Cupcakes are not within the definition of "public accommodations". It is that simple.
    And you think the person telling you 'sorry, I don't serve your kind' isn't a bully?

    Again, it's a law you cannot deny services on the grounds of race, gender sexual orientation and religion...if you have a problem with either one of those groups, don't open a business!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    It doesn't matter whether a customer orders a cake or a cupcake or why, if a customer is denied service simply because of his or her sexuality, that is bigotry on the part of the business. Since when is bigotry unimportant? Why should the customer keep quiet about it?
    I agree with you, I was just translating.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #164
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    I know , I was just making my point to Coyoteco.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    If I'm reading Coyoteco's point correctly, it seems he/she believes that these folks were doing that just to make a fuss, as opposed to being innocent and being denied. And that does happen, people often walk into a Lion's Den just so they can make a fuss. I'm not sure that is the case here, but like I mentioned before, I missed the whole bruhaha, so I may not have all the facts.

    Regardless of intent, it sounds like the action was against the law, which is kind of a tricky law IMO, but I'm not sure if I see a better way of doing things.

    Again, and for the record, I think they should be able to buy cupcakes. I'm just talking about the legal part.

    Related to intestate laws, there are loads of weird situations related to that. One *should* check your State's laws
    During the civil rights protests in the 60s, there were plenty of examples of people who sat in certain seats, entered certain businesses, and requested certain services just to "make a fuss". I'm sure they were considered radical activists.

    If the baker refused to serve a mixed race couple planning their wedding due to his beliefs, nobody would think of defending him.

    Do the right thing. Be on the right side of history.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e


    13 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    Do the right thing. Be on the right side of history.
    Again, of course, I was just translating. Not sure why that is hard to understand.

    I am pro gay marriage and absolutely believe all gay folks should have as many cupcakes as they desire.

    That doesn't mean that it doesn't open curious thought and examinations about law. Or is that also cause for concern?



  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    Like I said, all that is inequitable can be fixed with simple legal documents (more simple than they were 30 years ago when I started drafting them) and some change in the tax code. Easy, easy. And, I certainly remember a case many years ago where the court gave custody to the gay father over the fundamentalist Christian mother based exclusively on that issue - Gay verses Fundamentalist Christian. Gay better.

    Custody? Seriously....it's worse to be a smoker than to be gay in a custody hearing.
    Hey, you know what else is easy and simple? Allowing gay people to get married and have the same rights as everybody else!
    Blog: http://movingonupeventing.blogspot.com/

    Don't believe the hype.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  8. #168
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    Where did I say they shouldn't? You people certainly do like to stick to your talking points.
    My point is everybody should be able to do what they want, everybody should be able to believe what they want, everyone should be able to think what they want, and everyone has the right to be wrong, also.

    Lighten up people - let people be who they are and if one person doesn't want to make you cupcakes, go somewhere else and grow up!



  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    Where did I say they shouldn't? You people certainly do like to stick to your talking points.
    My point is everybody should be able to do what they want, everybody should be able to believe what they want, everyone should be able to think what they want, and everyone has the right to be wrong, also.

    Lighten up people - let people be who they are and if one person doesn't want to make you cupcakes, go somewhere else and grow up!

    I think if someone is breaking a civil rights law, and you're the victim, it's within reason to speak up and take legal action.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    And you think the person telling you 'sorry, I don't serve your kind' isn't a bully?

    Again, it's a law you cannot deny services on the grounds of race, gender sexual orientation and religion...if you have a problem with either one of those groups, don't open a business!
    You are going to have to go back and read with comprehension. You are wrong about the facts and you are wrong about the law.



  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    I think if someone is breaking a civil rights law, and you're the victim, it's within reason to speak up and take legal action.
    Another one: wrong about the facts and wrong about the law.



  12. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    You are going to have to go back and read with comprehension. You are wrong about the facts and you are wrong about the law.

    No she's not. CO law covers sexual orientation in its civil rights laws.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  13. #173
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    Doh!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    Where did I say they shouldn't? You people certainly do like to stick to your talking points.
    My point is everybody should be able to do what they want, everybody should be able to believe what they want, everyone should be able to think what they want, and everyone has the right to be wrong, also.

    Lighten up people - let people be who they are and if one person doesn't want to make you cupcakes, go somewhere else and grow up!
    Lighten up: It's not only about cupcakes.
    Don't make it sound like you didn't say all the things you said, skipping from one topic to the next, hoping we'd forget.

    In short:
    You may not discriminate against people based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. If that is too much for you, don't open a store.

    A marriage license covers a slew of rights for the couple for which other people have to pay a small fortune to get close to the same benefits. Close, not exact, because some things are simply not covered. Don't say you didn't comment on that in a less than enlightened fashion!

    And sometimes growing up means taking a stand.
    That's how the world is changing. Otherwise we'd still be chattel, at the mercy of our fathers and husbands, unable to make our voices heard, hold property, get an education and live independent, free lives.

    You do not get to tell strangers that they are going to hell because you do not approve of the way they live their lives.

    what did I leave out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175

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    The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).


    10 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
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    I've often wondered what the difference is between creed and religion?

    I want to start a thread that says "I had a lovely day today with family and friends" (just that) and see how long it takes to deteriorate. But really, what I'd like is if just once this cluster of miscommunication and real or perceived misunderstanding could be avoided. We are victims of a common language.
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post

    You do not get to tell strangers that they are going to hell because you do not approve of the way they live their lives.

    what did I leave out?
    The first amendment. You were going fine and then you added that last sentence.
    And thats the law too.



  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    The first amendment. You were going fine and then you added that last sentence.
    And thats the law too.
    Ah, no. That amendment only means government does not get to tell you what you can say.
    In Society you might be able to say these things, but you are not protected from the consequences. Even though you might feel entitled, you are out of bounds.
    Or in other words, your rights end where the tip of my nose start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179

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    Where did I see something that said "The First Amendment protects your freedom of speech. It does not protect you from being called an ---hole."

    Whatever happened to "If you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything at all"? That's the point of the post... Which we've totally strayed from.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    Where did I see something that said "The First Amendment protects your freedom of speech. It does not protect you from being called an ---hole."

    Whatever happened to "If you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything at all"? That's the point of the post... Which we've totally strayed from.
    Thank you.

    not to mention sometimes one (generic) ought to mind one's own business...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



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