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  1. #181
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Ah, no. That amendment only means government does not get to tell you what you can say.
    In Society you might be able to say these things, but you are not protected from the consequences. Even though you might feel entitled, you are out of bounds.
    Or in other words, your rights end where the tip of my nose start.
    Oh, i'm glad you clarified that. You win. Enjoy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #182
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    Jan. 19, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    Just to let you all know that the civil rights act prohibits denial only od "public accommodations" and that does not include cupcakes. Do none of you notice that the gay man and his mother didn't want to buy anything expensive - they wanted to make their point and wanted to ensure that if he agreed, they wouldn't buy anything that profited him much.

    They are just horrible people and his being gay does not change that fact.
    And you are so certain of their motivations because why? they went to buy a cake and were refused service, they didn't go looking for a confrontation.

    And it was a cake, the cupcakes were a different couple they refused to serve

    And why do you think a bakery is not "public accommodations" ? You probably should look up the definition.....
    Turn off the computer and go ride!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #183

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    Within US law, public accommodations are generally defined as entities, both public and private (thus treating private business enterprises as if they were part of the government), that are used by the public. Examples include retail stores, rental establishments and service establishments, as well as educational institutions, recreation facilities and service centers.


    Can we let this thread die now? If anyone has anymore question a simple trip over to Google should answer them.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #184
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    Seriously, you don't know the intestate laws of your state, and you don't have a will because you'd have to pay a lawyer or research how to draft your own? That's irresponsible, actually. Depending on your state and depending on other things, you may not be leaving everything to your spouse, or he/she to you.
    The little old ladies that I know about were sisters, so I don't know your point.
    And I absolutely do not think it is "discrimination" or "unequal treatment under the law" for a person to take the tiniest bit of responsibility for his/her life.
    Seriously, you do want a nanny state.
    Seroiusly, I DO know the laws of my State, which differs from the laws of other states. Something you fail to grasp.
    Wisconsin marital property Law assumptions

    Wisconsin law presumes that all property and all debts in existence at the time of the divorce are joint and mutual. There are exceptions for property acquired by gift or inheritance. The presumed equal division of property and debts can be altered under some circumstances.
    Division of Debts Under Wisconsin Marital Property Law

    Wisconsin law presumes that all debts arise from the marriage, therefore, all debts are equally born by the spouses. Exceptions can exist for debts incured without a spouses knowledge or for illicit or immoral purposes.
    And here is the little old lady story, if you knew anything about Gay Rights in this country you would have known about this story. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/us/new-york-doma-windsor/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #185
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    WNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by SendenHorse View Post
    yes, but my point was the tone of the article is very off-putting.

    Who is calling them inferior? to me all this assuming and pushing is the issue, not the actual opinions of each side. People just stop listening to the opposing view, that is my issue. Hate on BOTH sides. Not good.
    Not off-putting, it's blunt and to the point. Your opinion on homosexuality does not matter. And you know what? It doesn't. Your opinion on someone's hair color does not matter. Your opinion on what kind of care someone drives does not matter. It doesn't matter. What matters is people's lives and happiness.

    Do you really think your* opinion on something that has nothing to do with you is more important than countless lives? If you do... well, you're beyond anyone's reach and that's a pity. That gay kid down the street or that lesbian couple you see grocery shopping, they're people. They having feelings, they have hopes and dreams and lives to live. They're not a danger to you, they aren't hurting anyone. Upsetting someone's sense of right and wrong is not worth destroying someone's life.

    *"You" here is used a general sense, not directed at anyone in particular.
    Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
    Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
    VW sucks.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #186
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by amastrike View Post
    Not off-putting, it's blunt and to the point. Your opinion on homosexuality does not matter. And you know what? It doesn't. Your opinion on someone's hair color does not matter. Your opinion on what kind of care someone drives does not matter. It doesn't matter. What matters is people's lives and happiness.

    Do you really think your* opinion on something that has nothing to do with you is more important than countless lives? If you do... well, you're beyond anyone's reach and that's a pity. That gay kid down the street or that lesbian couple you see grocery shopping, they're people. They having feelings, they have hopes and dreams and lives to live. They're not a danger to you, they aren't hurting anyone. Upsetting someone's sense of right and wrong is not worth destroying someone's life.

    *"You" here is used a general sense, not directed at anyone in particular.
    This means YOURS also does not matter. If we are talking OPINIONS, neither side "wins".

    There are a whole lot of people who disagree with YOU and think THEY are right.....

    You are deciding here what is important, why do you get that say? why is your side more important then the other side? That is my issue. Why do you get to "shut down" the other side?

    I have left my actual opinions out of this, I could be pro-gay or anti. That is not important here. My point is what counts for one side counts for both.
    Last edited by SendenHorse; Dec. 27, 2013 at 11:28 AM.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #187
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    Apr. 19, 2004
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    USA
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    1,830

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    Quote Originally Posted by SendenHorse View Post
    This means YOURS also does not matter. If we are talking OPINIONS, neither side "wins". If someone can't be wrong, then someone can't be right.

    You are deciding here what is important, why do you get that say? why is your side more important then the other side? That is my issue. Why do you get to "shut down" the other side?

    I have left my actual opinions out of this, I could be pro-gay or anti. That is not important here. My point is what counts for one side counts for both.

    No one gets to speak for anyone else here or play moral police.

    I said nothing about gay rights in general, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the way this post suggests barraging others with what they think should be public policy.
    Not sure as to your intent but you're coming across as extremely self centered on this topic.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #188
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    WNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by SendenHorse View Post
    This means YOURS also does not matter. If we are talking OPINIONS, neither side "wins". If someone can't be wrong, then someone can't be right.

    You are deciding here what is important, why do you get that say? why is your side more important then the other side? That is my issue. Why do you get to "shut down" the other side?

    I have left my actual opinions out of this, I could be pro-gay or anti. That is not important here. My point is what counts for one side counts for both.

    No one gets to speak for anyone else here or play moral police.

    I said nothing about gay rights in general, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the way this post suggests barraging others with what they think should be public policy.
    You're right, no one's opinion matters. Which means that there's no need for me to have an opinion that homosexuals should be left alone to live their lives because there's no opinion that they shouldn't. It's just a given. Problem solved!

    But if my opinion does matter, if I do get to make decisions... that's because my opinion is "live and let live", and people's lives are more important than other people's moral indignation.
    Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
    Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
    VW sucks.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #189
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Well, obviously opinions matter, as people get to VOTE on their opinion to let gay people have the same freedoms straight get or not.



  10. #190
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    But if my opinion does matter, if I do get to make decisions... that's because my opinion is "live and let live", and people's lives are more important than other people's moral indignation.
    In your opinion, right?

    It's my opinion too, but I think we should be clear that they are all opinions.

    Again, I agree with the article - people may want to think about how they are expressing that opinion, and weigh the consequences of that opinion, but if you want to be free to have your opinion then they've got to be free to have theirs.

    A better title for the article may have been something like "Think about the consequences of the opinion you're expressing". That, however, is not pithy enough to have a dialogue about.

    It is, in my opinion, a minor point, but one that I think might be crucial in softening hearts and minds. Bullying people rarely changes minds (an important thought for both sides), listening and informing does.



  11. #191
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    I feel like we're in a courtroom scene from The Good Wife with Judge Anna Gasteyer. (In my opinion...)
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.



  12. #192
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    Lol, we might well be.

    I think, though, if getting gay people the rights they deserve is the end goal, then it still behooves us to think about changing hearts and minds, not bludgeoning people.

    One of the best ways you can do that, though, is to support your gay friends. I have a dear friend who has been with her partner for 20 years, who recently married. When she told her mother that they were getting married, the only response was "oh." Even though they had been together at family get togethers etc, it was not actual homophobia that caused the reaction, it was the belief about marriage. Weird, eh? I thought so.

    We threw the happy couple a party after they got married, because that was what was important to them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #193
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, obviously opinions matter, as people get to VOTE on their opinion to let gay people have the same freedoms straight get or not.
    An hopefully the individual states courts will continue to override voters and legislatures since Rights such as gay marriage should not be up to public opinion- just like other civil rights such as the right for women to vote and banning segregation.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #194
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    An hopefully the individual states courts will continue to override voters and legislatures since Rights such as gay marriage should not be up to public opinion- just like other civil rights such as the right for women to vote and banning segregation.
    That too.

    I think the situation is appalling, that today some still think that they can keep people's rights beholden to the opinions of others denying them such.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #195
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by SendenHorse View Post
    This means YOURS also does not matter. If we are talking OPINIONS, neither side "wins".

    There are a whole lot of people who disagree with YOU and think THEY are right.....

    You are deciding here what is important, why do you get that say? why is your side more important then the other side? That is my issue. Why do you get to "shut down" the other side?

    I have left my actual opinions out of this, I could be pro-gay or anti. That is not important here. My point is what counts for one side counts for both.
    I don't think any side is getting "shut down". And I don't think the title of the article is great, because it does suggest that people are not entitled to an opinion.

    I'm pretty sure you're just arguing for the sake of clarity; and I don't disagree with your argument because of the wording of the article and some of the posts, which is fair. Semantics are important, especially if they put-off the reader, even ones that support the idea.

    I guess my feeling is that when your opinion becomes an action, it may no longer be appropriate. When a person bullies or slanders a person, insinuates religious outcomes ("you will go to hell"), physically assaults them, refuses them service, denies them employment....these are no longer opinions. You can disagree with homosexuality all day long - but when your actions affect (directly or indirectly) another person, it is no longer just an opinion.

    Back to the original article - it's not people's opinions that are causing gay teens to commit suicide at a high rate - it's people's actions.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #196
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    Dec. 2, 2009
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    Well said S1969 - that is what I was trying to articulate but not well.



  17. #197
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    Default Do people stop and think for a moment?

    I have to wonder, because if it was your life and your rights and your being treated equally....would you really talk about "opinions" and rights to having one..in debating peoples' lives.

    Religious beliefs are personal...what gives someone or any church or group the right because of their subjective, religion saying someone is a sinner to try to label them so and treat those in that community within that group less than they would accept.....What authority is any religious doctrine outside the confines of the group and those who practice?? None.
    "All life is precious"
    Sophie Scholl


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #198
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    Jan. 10, 2002
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    Unfortunately, they absolutely believe they have the right push their religious beliefs onto everyone else, and to label people and treat them accordingly. One would be hard pressed to convince them otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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