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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
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    4,941

    Default Has anyone here ever done allergy testing on a confirmed tail rubber outer? ;-)

    I'm at my wit's end with this young horse. As a baby (under 2 years) I never had this problem, but it's gotten progressively worse each year. For the past 2 years we have the hives problem in the spring/summer and I cycle through Benadryl/Hydroxyzine/Dex depending on how bad it is. Then late summer we usually get into the tail rubbing and that lasts a couple months. Well, NOW it is just not stopping, it's late in the year and there is not much tail left and it's *killing* me. And before you all get started, I have done the Equimax double worming 2 weeks apart, so let's not get started on that. <smile> I've also tried benign neglect, washing with all sorts of shampoos, Vaseline, baby oil, Listerine, sheath cleaning, etc. etc. etc. He just got his annual vaccines the other day and my vet had 2 recommendations: Daily strongid (I know, I know!) OR allergy testing to see what in the world this boy is allergic to. Thoughts??? The allergy testing is going to be EXPENSIVE, reason for asking.....



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    866

    Default

    One of my barnmates did. The mare had rubbed her tail for several years, rubbed to the point of rawness and resulting in white hairs at the top of her otherwise black tail. The vets had always pointed to her being allergic to the gnats, or, as we call them here in Maine, the noseeums. BO managed her turnout (night) and owner bought multiple fly sheets. This year she had the mare allergy tested. Turns out she isn't allergic to the gnats at all, but she is allergic to pyretherins. How ironic! She is also allergic to wheat and several other typical "grain" ingredients, so now she gets soaked alfalfa pellets. She's a totally easy keeper morgan, so at least feeding her is relatively simple. Good luc
    k with your boy!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,268

    Default

    look at links below next summer by a fly sheet and fly mask

    can get this to help www.camrosa.co.uk

    www.sweet-itch.co.uk



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    144

    Default

    I did it with my guy about 10 years ago. Started out as tail rubbing that eventually, over the course of several years, progressed to rubbing raw and bloody from poll to tip of tail from May thru September. I had him tested soon after they developed a test for the culicoides (the allergy tests had been around for awhile, but they had just added the specific test for the gnats) and he did test positive for those.....along with house flys, cedar, grass, mold....pretty much everything your standard horse comes in contact with day to day. I did the allergy shots for about a year and didn't really see an improvement. The only thing that helped was moving him to an area that did not have an abundance of the gnats. So in his case I think it truly was an allergy to the gnats, but the test and subsequent shots didn't really do much to identify or resolve that.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrcltr View Post
    One of my barnmates did. The mare had rubbed her tail for several years, rubbed to the point of rawness and resulting in white hairs at the top of her otherwise black tail. The vets had always pointed to her being allergic to the gnats, or, as we call them here in Maine, the noseeums. BO managed her turnout (night) and owner bought multiple fly sheets. This year she had the mare allergy tested. Turns out she isn't allergic to the gnats at all, but she is allergic to pyretherins. How ironic! She is also allergic to wheat and several other typical "grain" ingredients, so now she gets soaked alfalfa pellets. She's a totally easy keeper morgan, so at least feeding her is relatively simple. Good luc
    k with your boy!
    OK, this is what I'm looking for! So my little guy already doesn't get "grain", so I think I'm ahead of the curve on this one. I've tried different types of hay, so unless I'm willing to go to an all alfalfa hay diet (which on an easy keeper, I'm not, lol!) I think I've ruled out the hay. We have the no-see-ums too, and I'm sure they are a big part of the problem. What type of fly spray works w/o pyrethrins?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by goeslikestink View Post
    look at links below next summer by a fly sheet and fly mask

    can get this to help www.camrosa.co.uk

    www.sweet-itch.co.uk
    Well, now it's getting to be a year round issue, so no waiting for the summer for me. I wonder if a fly sheet would really be the answer? Has anyone tried this? See I don't know "for sure" that it's simply just the flies, since it's year round...hmmm...maybe the tail cover would help though protect the tail....??

    Quote Originally Posted by SlabSided View Post
    I did it with my guy about 10 years ago. Started out as tail rubbing that eventually, over the course of several years, progressed to rubbing raw and bloody from poll to tip of tail from May thru September. I had him tested soon after they developed a test for the culicoides (the allergy tests had been around for awhile, but they had just added the specific test for the gnats) and he did test positive for those.....along with house flys, cedar, grass, mold....pretty much everything your standard horse comes in contact with day to day. I did the allergy shots for about a year and didn't really see an improvement. The only thing that helped was moving him to an area that did not have an abundance of the gnats. So in his case I think it truly was an allergy to the gnats, but the test and subsequent shots didn't really do much to identify or resolve that.
    Thanks, that too is what I'm looking for, not willing to throw a grand out the window for nothing. He's been boarded at a few different places, I've never thought about different locations for him, it (right now anyway) seems to be an "age/timing" thing. Will put some more thought into that. Did you try a fly sheet with a tail protector? If so, did that help?? TIA!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    Did you try a fly sheet with a tail protector? If so, did that help?? TIA!
    Oh, yeah....he lived in a fly sheet with a neck piece as well. And antihistamines and, for awhile, daily deximethisone. That kept him somewhat comfortable and the sheet provided a layer of protection while outside when he did rub on trees or fences, but he still rubbed, rubbed, rubbed when he was in his stall. For me, a different locations really made all the difference. I had always been told that there simply wasn't anyplace in Virginia that did not have the gnats so I really didn't think it would make a difference. The place where he was at his worst - no mane or tail left, just a bloody trail down his topline - was surrounded by swampy low lying areas. I moved him briefly to another barn not near any water and his skin healed up immediately, as if by magic. Unfortunately, that barn had other issues....sigh. So moved him a few more times and now he is at a place further west (he's retired) that, for some reason, knock on wood, seems to not have the gnats in abundance despite being on a river and he's done really well. And he's largely on field board. During the summer months he rubs his tail abit and his belly when he lies down, but not the point of damage.

    But who knows, maybe it's not the gnats. I do do the double dose of ivermectin each spring just for good measure and I ask the barn manager to keep a fly sheet on him during the buggiest parts of the summer but I don't think that gets done consistently.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2012
    Location
    Moved South from North Pole
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Pin worms.

    Yes, even if your vet says "no pin worms" in an examination, it's going to be pin worms.

    So buy some anthelicideEQ and give it to the horse. Your tail rubbing issues will end. Put the wormer in your rotation and then you will not have to deal with tail rubbing again.

    And make sure you clean mares' udders, and clean the docks of both mares and geldings. Dirty udders and docks equal rubbing also.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2007
    Location
    VA
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    144

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildandWickedWarmbloods View Post
    Pin worms.

    Yes, even if your vet says "no pin worms" in an examination, it's going to be pin worms.
    Well, not in my case. Trust me, over the course of nearly 15 years dealing with the issue - where it progressed far beyond just the tail - I assure you I tested, tried, researched, etc. everything possible under the sun to resolve it. Change of venue was the only real solution and I'm pretty sure if it was pin worms, they would have moved with him wherever he went.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    OK, this is what I'm looking for! We have the no-see-ums too, and I'm sure they are a big part of the problem. What type of fly spray works w/o pyrethrins?!?!
    I'm not sure what she used for fly spray, but I'll ask my BO when I go out tomorrow. I know she continued to wear a fly sheet and to be turned out at night and in during the day.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2005
    Posts
    399

    Default

    I have a mare that developed a tail rubbing issue only when she turned 15. I haven't done the expensive allergy testing/treatment. I did test for worms, and I tried all sorts of gnat and fly sprays and skin treatments, including steroid creams; nothing helped. Instead, I'm substantially controlling the tail hair loss by ALWAYS putting her in a fly sheet in the summer (e.g., Kool Coat) or blanket in the winter that has a LONG tail cover while she's in her stall. (She doesn't rub in the pasture.) I also clean her udder frequently and try to keep her tail hair moisturized/oiled so it doesn't break so easily. It's not a perfect solution, but at least she's still got a decent looking and functional (for fly swatting) tail and isn't rubbing it raw and it's fairly inexpensive.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2012
    Location
    gulf coast
    Posts
    958

    Default

    There is a huge thread on Neck Thread Worms (Onchoserca) hives, sweet itch, tail rubbing are all symptoms.
    There is a special way to worm to get rid of them.
    OK found it and bumped it for you. Title "Something to Kill Adult Onchocerca" by
    calypsocapers. in Horse Care.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
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    4,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WildandWickedWarmbloods View Post
    Pin worms.

    Yes, even if your vet says "no pin worms" in an examination, it's going to be pin worms.

    So buy some anthelicideEQ and give it to the horse. Your tail rubbing issues will end. Put the wormer in your rotation and then you will not have to deal with tail rubbing again.

    And make sure you clean mares' udders, and clean the docks of both mares and geldings. Dirty udders and docks equal rubbing also.
    Quote Originally Posted by csaper58 View Post
    There is a huge thread on Neck Thread Worms (Onchoserca) hives, sweet itch, tail rubbing are all symptoms.
    There is a special way to worm to get rid of them.
    OK found it and bumped it for you. Title "Something to Kill Adult Onchocerca" by
    calypsocapers. in Horse Care.
    I specifically did NOT want to get into the whole deworming thing. See my original post. <smile> I've already been through all that, it's not worms. Let's please keep it on topic with allergic types and what you've done to help them....TIA!!! I think I need to research some fly sheets....hmmmm.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2012
    Location
    Fruita, Colorado
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I'm a bit late in seeing your post, but over the last few years I have been through ALL this with one of our geldings. Started with tail rubbing in the summer, tested for pin worms.....none. Had him allergy tested (blood work) and he came back allergic to 21 different things.........some grasses, oats, insects, molds, etc. Did a full year of build up allergy shots followed by two years of monthly maintenance shots. Tried every topical treatment I heard about.......most were not effective, in my opinion. Tried Platinum performance Allergy supplement and didn't notice much improvement. Used fly sheets and masks religiously in the summer day and night.......this did help with overall skin and coat condition, but didn't stop the rubbing at times. Switched to a fly spray without permethrins, as he seemed to be bothered by that too. There are some that have only natural and not synethic chemicals. This seemed to help some.

    Then, last January I started him on a supplement by Hilton Herbs called Bye Bye Itch. It is pricey but it did work for him. He had the best year he has had since I owned him. Very little rubbing and they also make a lotion to use, if he did rub. He had finally grown his tail and mane out and looked great.

    The really sad part of this story is that he coliced in September and we lost him.

    I know you have addressed the worming issue, and I thought I had too, but looking back I think he did have pin worms at the start. My vet was very conservative as far as worming goes and being a new horse owner, it took me a while to do enough worming research to understand that. When I started an aggressive worming protocol a couple years into this, I did notice an overall improvement in this horses health.

    If you'd like the details of any of this or have questions, PM me and let me know.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
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    5,929

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    Yes, I did. Mare was rubbing her mane and tail raw. She is allergic to 20 plus things and also to corn and barley. Ironically, she is most allergic to flax which I was feeding her to help with her allergies. Poor girl. Anyways the shots worked very well for her as well as modifying her diet.



  15. #15
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    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Yes, I did. Mare was rubbing her mane and tail raw. She is allergic to 20 plus things and also to corn and barley. Ironically, she is most allergic to flax which I was feeding her to help with her allergies. Poor girl. Anyways the shots worked very well for her as well as modifying her diet.
    Oh geez, I've been giving mine flax too, to help with the allergies. I'm still on the fence with this one....Can you elaborate on how you "modified her diet"?? TIA!



  16. #16
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    Feb. 1, 2012
    Location
    Vermont
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    Short of going right to allergy testing, you could eliminate EVERYTHING from his diet except the hay, and see what happens.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    Oh geez, I've been giving mine flax too, to help with the allergies. I'm still on the fence with this one....Can you elaborate on how you "modified her diet"?? TIA!
    Well according her serum allergy test, she is allergic to corn and barley. So, I wanted to get those out of her diet as well as flax. Those 3 thing are in a ton of grain. So she gets fed alfalfa pellets with vit/min as her grain, a fat supplement and just grass hay. It was a big change in her personality.

    The shots helped a lot. She just had a serum test done which are not as accurate. I wants to do the intradermal testing eventually to confirm.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2011
    Posts
    397

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by csaper58 View Post
    There is a huge thread on Neck Thread Worms (Onchoserca) hives, sweet itch, tail rubbing are all symptoms.
    There is a special way to worm to get rid of them.
    OK found it and bumped it for you. Title "Something to Kill Adult Onchocerca" by
    calypsocapers. in Horse Care.
    well i dont mean to be lazy, but that thread has about a million posts, so canyou tell me what is the special way to worm? thanks!



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