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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2007
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    SE Pennsylvania
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    Default Kid gets WAY popped out of the tack.. suggestions?

    I have a student currently (she is in a group that are 14-15 yr olds) all are on the more novice side-- learning to do some verticals/courses at around 2' (occasionally 2'3 singles) and regulate speeds/distances. She just can't seem to learn to follow the motion and gets popped way out of the tack usually losing both stirrups and ending up on the horses neck. She does ok on the ponies who just don't try as hard/haven't got as much bascule over the fences, but its still not great. Last lesson she did manage to pull herself together and keep a solid leg/heel down. I sometimes feel HER conformation makes it tough on her, she is on the short side with very short legs and just seems to have a hard time keeping a solid leg all the way through... not just lower leg-- her ENTIRE leg. She does have a pretty solid position on the flat, however.

    We do plenty of no stirrup work on that flat (walk, trot and canter) which she does fine with.. I am thinking maybe the key here will also be lots of over fences no stirrup work so she learns to follow, but I am open to any and all suggestions! Thanks in advance
    -SW-
    Precious Few- 1998 OTTB



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2009
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    2,965

    Default

    Neck strap or mane to hold onto, get in a two point 3 strides out, and land in a two point for a few strides.
    .


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2002
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    602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
    Neck strap or mane to hold onto, get in a two point 3 strides out, and land in a two point for a few strides.
    Agreed. I'd hold off the no-stirrups jumping work for now; if she's almost falling off with the stirrups, she's sure to land in the dirt if you take them away. She shouldn't be getting much of a bascule at 2 feet; work on getting in a half seat a few strides out and grabbing mane until she gets the feel of staying with the jump.


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
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    Middleburg, VA
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    Default

    Sounds to me she may be trying TOO hard to maintain her position and making herself tense, and thus not staying soft an following with her body. The above exercises are good, but also encourage her to relax and let her body stay soft and following instead of trying to force a position and becoming tight and tense.


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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2013
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    35

    Default

    Agree with two point a couple strides out as long as your horses are still going to go straight and keep an even pace. I had a student with the same problem and this really helped. She was able to already be in the proper position without having to worry about the timing and just get the feel of going over the jump properly. Then eventually would have her wait until she got closer, and then closer, until eventually she was right on with her timing. This method also helps prevent schoolies getting bumped in the mouth & flopped around on



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2008
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    3,211

    Default

    Ideas.....

    Discuss with the student what their feelings are and ask what they think they may need to work on to feel more secure. Make sure there is no fear issue causing the student to lock up over the jump. Some students may have discomfort issues due to physical, or equipment causes, and may be unaware or embarrassed to bring it up. Approach the subjects empathetically.

    Two point over trot poles.

    Post up, up, down, down.

    Hold dollar bills between calfs and horses sides at canter on the flat.

    On the flat w/t/c, practice rising out of the tack slow from full seat, to light seat, to half seat, and then back down slow.

    Once the balance is good and secure, trot over cross rails while remaining in the two point. Then use that rising slow out of the tack into the two point talent to come into a two point four strides before the cross rail, and come back into the tack four strides after the the jump. Then go to three strides, then two, then one, then follow the horse over the cross rail from a half seat using hands on the crest as a guide.

    Then canter over cavaletti in the two point.

    Build up the riders capacity to begin simple gymnastics.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    Default

    Teach her to fold at the waist, not to rise out of her saddle. Too many think of going UP over fences, rather than coming slightly forward, and with the horse.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2007
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
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    160

    Cool

    Definitely not much bascule at 2' but we do have a few ponies/horses who will just barely jump/half trot over fences this size and then some who still feel like they should try hard to be picture perfect over every fence with a cracked back and knees to eye balls All of them are very honest and go even if the girls get in to position beforehand.

    We have tried doing the trot in and stay in 2 point the last 3-4 strides, and then riding out in it with not a lot of success. She does seem to try TOO hard and get tense through her body. I have never had one get quite THIS popped in to the air. All of the schoolies just stop and let her adjust/get her stirrups back once it has happened. We did take a couple steps back for a few weeks to work on position on the flat (practicing going between the seats, cantering/trotting poles, no stirrups etc). She does extremely well on the flat.

    I have not yet put a neck strap on for her.. that may be the next thing for this week! Thanks for all the pointers I appreciate the different view points.
    -SW-
    Precious Few- 1998 OTTB



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2008
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    The eastern edge of the eventing wasteland
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    Default

    Make sure her heel is not coming back over the fence. Emphasis on almost a chair seat in the air. Grab mane/ neck strap martingale whatever. Encourage her to push her hips back on the air and fold over the horse like a jockey. Esp with the back crackers.
    Have her think of what is going to happen after the fence. Is there a turn, another fence? Or been simpler, have her trot in and halt after a single X. This makes her think of having the leg on over the fence, usually why they get popped loose is the leg slips back in the air
    "You're horse is behind the vertical!"
    "Of course he's behind the vertical, I haven't jumped it yet!"
    - NLK
    "I am a sand dancer... just here for the jumps!" - Schrammo
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  10. #10
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    Nov. 29, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SWpreciousfew View Post
    Definitely not much bascule at 2' but we do have a few ponies/horses who will just barely jump/half trot over fences this size and then some who still feel like they should try hard to be picture perfect over every fence with a cracked back and knees to eye balls All of them are very honest and go even if the girls get in to position beforehand.

    We have tried doing the trot in and stay in 2 point the last 3-4 strides, and then riding out in it with not a lot of success. She does seem to try TOO hard and get tense through her body. I have never had one get quite THIS popped in to the air. All of the schoolies just stop and let her adjust/get her stirrups back once it has happened. We did take a couple steps back for a few weeks to work on position on the flat (practicing going between the seats, cantering/trotting poles, no stirrups etc). She does extremely well on the flat.

    I have not yet put a neck strap on for her.. that may be the next thing for this week! Thanks for all the pointers I appreciate the different view points.
    I think from what you've said, this could be more of a mental issue for this student. Getting tense can lead to gripping, and if her stature is such that she does not have the leg length to wrap around the horses barrel, any griping with the knees or thighs could then increase the propensity for popping up out of the saddle more then it might for the average student.

    The loss of the stirrups might then seem to confirm that her base of support is shifting off of her feet over the fence.

    My intuition is that you may need to help her overcome this tensing up issue so that she will be able to "ride" the fences rather than being "carried" tensely over them.

    If she does not have this issue while riding the ponies, perhaps you might work on refining her base of support with the help of one of the ponies?

    Can she ride gymnastics safely on one of the ponies?

    I think gymnastics can be an excellent tool for helping riders perfect their jumping position.


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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2012
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    Ontario
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    Default

    I second the gymnastics. One of the things that I did with my daughter (who is 8) was to talk about allowing the body to be relaxed, not so tense over the fences. Let the pony come up to you and close the angle of the hips. We found that these things helped her to stay in the saddle, tension was a BIG thing. I also find that trying too hard to manufacture a two point rather than allowing the horse to come up to you tends to shift the base of support, which might account for the loss of stirrups?


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  12. #12
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    Aug. 27, 2007
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    PA
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    Default

    To me, this is not a kid that should be jumping 2' courses….this is a kid that should be doing all the good ideas mentioned above, but over cross rails. Set grids, do no stirrups/eyes/hands but over cross rails. This might also help her tense-ness if the jumps get knocked down a hole or two. What is the rush to get kids jumping around if they don't look good/aren't safe doing it?


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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2007
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    SE Pennsylvania
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    Default

    What I should have said is that they are working TOWARDS doing 2' and towards doing courses. We still do a lot of cross rail work with verticals worked in after everyone has shown that they are with it for the day during the warm ups. They have mostly just done up to one line at 2' and courses over cross rails. We have done two grid days in the last month and half.. Sounds like doing more of that has a big vote :-) she does have better days.. And then last lesson it all just seemed to fall apart for her. She pulled it together over our final fence for the day and had a great following motion with only a little pop up. She came to us about two months ago from another local place. She had her basics but needed some adjustments.. Didnt know the difference between two point and a jumping position.. But tell her something once and she soaks it up like a sponge. I think in time it will come! In the mean time I will take in any advice offered.. I enjoy hearing what everyone has to say and look forward to tweaking what we are already doing to try to help her improve.
    -SW-
    Precious Few- 1998 OTTB



  14. #14
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Default

    How often is kid riding? if less than 4-5 days a week, suggest running & pilates (for riders) to strengthen her leg (especially important when the rider lacks leg length).

    gets popped way out of the tack usually losing both stirrups and ending up on the horses neck.
    If this was my kid, I'd be concerned about safety - no way kid should be losing stirrups & balance & still jumping, she needs to go back & spend more time on foundation/confidence or whatever is lacking.


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  15. #15
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    Jan. 6, 2003
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    CT
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    Default

    Kid needs some private lessons. I would start her on trot poles again, have her half seat well before the first and hold her half seat thru-out.
    Tthen I'd make the last one a small X. Rider does the same thing, cantering aweay.

    Then it's a few trot poles to an X to a one stride.
    Then, one trot pole to bounce to X to one stride.
    Then I'd have the kid do them with her eyes closed. Yes. Closed.

    She's not physically aware of what to do with her body first off. Maybe limited by strength and/ or position. But she's also probably jumping ahead, anticipating and not sure where to close hip angle. In otherwords she's not letting the horse's effort affect her position over the jump. Take her vision away and she won't anticipate, and likely therefore won't get jumped out of the tack.

    Don't blind fold her, of course, and don't put her on anything that my be a dirty stopper or prone to running out.

    Agree with Alto, too, if these exercises don't quickly put her in the right position.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2011
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    1,808

    Default

    Is it possible that the saddles just don't fit her right and its showing when the fences get bigger if her legs are that short?

    A good friend of mine and I are the exact same height, 5'5". However, she has maybe a 28" inseam and I have a 33" inseam. I have one saddle that she CANNOT ride in whatsoever. Her leg is all over the place and she gets flung out of the saddle quite a bit. Throw a different saddle on the same horse and she's just fine. I have a significantly easier time riding in a saddle meant for shorter legs even when my knee is over the flap or in an otherwise weird spot than she does certain saddles meant for a longer leg. I'm not sure what it is exactly about certain saddles but they do really wacky things to her otherwise good balance.

    Just a thought.



  17. #17
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    Aug. 28, 2007
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    Triangle Area, NC
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    Longe her over a tiny X in half seat blind folded and singing.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  18. #18
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    WNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    Longe her over a tiny X in half seat blind folded and singing.
    Exactly. Or have her recite multiplication tables. I bet she CAN do, she's just overthinking, trying too hard, and tensing up.
    Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
    Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
    VW sucks.



  19. #19
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    have you tried shortening her stirrups? Many people with short legs try to ride with their stirrups longer than they should be. this can make it difficult to get out of the saddle and makes them get popped loose. I've seen it in all levels of short riders.

    Also, use a neck strap and make her grab it very jump.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  20. #20
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    Feb. 28, 2007
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    SE Pennsylvania
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    Default

    Candysgirl--- I actually think there may be something to that.. she began riding in our saddles to begin with but the last month she brought her own saddle (I think it belonged to her cousin or another family member.) It is a Stubben, cant remember which model. The few horses she usually uses with us, the saddle fits those horses so I have allowed her to use it. This week I think I will have her ride in one of our school saddles with a shorter/different flap/seat and see if that makes more of a difference. That didn't really hit me until you said something! She only rides twice a week in lessons. Usually one private and one group... occasionally free rides a lesson horse on the weekends (just on the flat).

    We have 12 lesson horses and about 75 students between myself and the other trainer (split about 50/25) so its not always possible for them to do private lessons on a regular basis, especially now that we are losing light
    -SW-
    Precious Few- 1998 OTTB



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