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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
    Posts
    832

    Default Not a cool thing to do....negative 'opinions' public...

    Sometime back, a comment was made here at COTH....
    regarding warmblood /arabian crosses...
    It was a bit disturbing to see it was from a long time member of this forum. And I assume (since I've never met this person) a horseperson of some experience. A newbie might be excused from the faux paux...

    The quote I am referring to from this poster comes after a statement they made that GOV inspectors have seen some nice arabian/warmblood cross examples, Rosenthal/arabian specifically...this poster goes on to say (as regards to a recent Oldenburg Verband inspection)
    " I recently saw two Rosenthal/arabian foals, one was gorgeous, the other, so-so, (pretty but lacking in movement, elasticity, etc. ) There was a vast difference in the quality of the mares and it showed in the offspring."*
    Ouch....
    This poster was describing quite a unique and RECOGNIZABLE scenario. Especially by the owners of the above foals and mares. The poster also conveniently left out some important details.

    1. the 'so-so' foal was APPROVED that day. the difference being the other 'gorgeous' foal went premium. I guess ‘so-so’ is now acceptable to GOV...
    2. The dam of the ‘so-so’ foal, obviously at the other end of the 'quality' spectrum in the 'vast difference' comment made by the poster, was already a Main Book GOV approved mare with 4 foals to her credit. ALL four approved, two of which went premium. Her production speaks for itself. She is also 18 yrs old, drawn down by the foal, far smaller than the plump 5 yr old 15.2h dam of the ‘gorgeous’ foal. The poster’s 'vastly different in quality showed in the offspring' statement left an entirely different impression.
    3. This poster, (along with the inspectors), observed the 'so-so' foal for two minutes. Hardly enough time for someone to make a valid public criticism of the overall quality of the foal. At least the inspectors always caution that they have to judge based on what they are seeing 'AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME'. and that it in no way reflects on the past or future quality or development of that animal. Hardly enough time for an onlooker to make such a rash negative statement publicly about 'quality'.
    The foal was 'quality ' enough to be approved, but did not 'show off' well enough to go premium. Foals who do not express themselves strongly in inspection may not impress as well, even if they have good conformation or movement. It’s a subjective process.
    In any event, what was the point in making this negative opinion public?
    To make this kind of negative comment on a public forum like COTH regarding someone else’s horses is just unfathomable.

    oh yea.. I guess it’s pretty obvious.....that 'so-so' foal and her dam are mine.......

    I thought a long time before speaking out about this. I even contacted the poster privately to no avail.
    I just had to defend my old gal, df China Doll..She deserves it... here is a link to all of this mare's approved GOV foals.

    http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/ma...10519583173266

    The bay filly with four whites (Rachel Arabela) is the ‘so-so’ foal. And the grey mare is the dam (China Doll).
    One of the foals is IronStone, by Ironman, now,6 yrs old & 17.1h. he’s the only one old enough to be competing. He's eventing. With a 14 yr old up.


    27 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2010
    Posts
    649

    Default

    This forum discusses, and yes evaluates, foals, mares, and stallions all the time. How was this any different?


    28 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,189

    Default

    I'm sure it stung, but..... everyone is entitled to an opinion. Surprisingly few people actually read every thread on CoTH (or even read CoTH at all) and remember every detail - my point is that the horse will speak for itself. Don't sweat the small stuff, honestly.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
    Posts
    832

    Default

    Well, that wasn't my point. I was not concerned about the opinion, because as you said, everyone has an opinion. It was the publishing of the opinion and the inaccuracy of the statements that were the most annoying. Valid, constructive criticism can sometimes be helpful. This was anything but.
    I would have felt the same if I had read these comments about the horses of friends or aquaintances. Wrong is wrong..
    Too many people today 'hide' behind technology. It seems to encourage bad manners and bring out the worst in some.
    And I was not concerned about how many people may have read this. I read it..
    I don't really think this forum, or any other civilized venue is the place to criticize someone's horses, performances, etc . 'Evaluating' is not the same as what was said here.
    I was not concerned about a potential client 'recognizing' the horses.
    There was no value or purpose in the comments..
    I do think that many owners would have been similarly irritated and 'sensitive' with the manner in which the 'opinion' was presented.
    I don't find it that odd that one would want to step up and defend one of their horses they felt was inaccurately portrayed..I just wanted to point it out, set a record straight on a nice mare who has done very well.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    15,468

    Default

    There is no "accurate' or"inaccurate" where opinions are concerned. If you don't want to hear them keep your stock at home.
    Last edited by Equibrit; Oct. 23, 2013 at 07:58 PM.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    38 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    477

    Default

    The breeder of our mare Prime Time started with a Russian Arabian mare. He also got a lot of negative feedback from the other breeders in Germany. Time proved that he was correct. Feel free to check out my website for more about this mareline.

    Sometimes you have to put up with the comments. Time will tell if you are making good breeding choices.

    Dan


    9 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2009
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    With respect you are coming across as a jilted owner.

    Opinions are free. Voicing them on an open forum like COTH is also free. In defending your mare/offspring you have voiced your opinion too. All's fair.


    46 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2003
    Location
    Eastern Pacific coast
    Posts
    3,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerole View Post
    With respect you are coming across as a jilted owner.
    I can understand why the OP would be irritated and would want to defend her horses and her successful breeding program.

    Wouldn't most of us have done the same ?
    -Amor vincit omnia-


    12 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    469

    Default

    [edit]

    The poster from what I recalled didn't say your foal was hideous and that she had to go wash out her eyes with bleach after watching him trot... Not did she even name him specifically.

    She simply said he was in her opinion, so-so, meaning average.
    Average gets approved, above average get premium, so it's inline with the inspection results.

    Based on only the pictures I can see, I would probably agree with that assessment. He's cute and decently built and will probably be a very nice riding horse, but based on that snapshot in time he appears to be a nice enough but not spectacular baby.

    But that is based on one moment in time, he may not be showing to his best that day. Foals are tough to judge. Maybe he is spectacular but is not at the best growth phase to judge.

    Also since it's this particular foal under discussion - he is the end result, what the mare has produced previously isn't really relevant.

    I get it that you love your mare and foal, that's important but understand that not everyone has the same preferences.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 27, 2013 at 07:37 AM.


    30 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2010
    Location
    Earlysville, Virginia
    Posts
    3,286

    Default

    I would have never seen your "so-so" foal had you not started this thread.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.


    21 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2012
    Posts
    13

    Default

    OP, chill out.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2003
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    I never saw the original post/comment, but I'd like to point out that foals aren't "approved", they are simply registered. I have never seen a registry turn down a foal; if both parents are approved, the foals are registered, simple as that.
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com


    16 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2007
    Posts
    1,424

    Default

    The great sire Ulft was a 'second tier' rating as a foal

    http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/gre...lions/?gs=1459

    Time will tell, after all. Until your jumper starts pulling rails or your dressage horse cross canters I would not get too upset by opinions of foals.

    Different opinions are why we have so many breeds and types of horses in the first place.

    Personally I find some WB foals to be coarse or 'meaty' and lately have seen some hyper-reactive sorts.
    That doesn't make them any less competitive when they grow up. Judging babies is, well, judging babies.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2009
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Mardi, no I would not.

    I may follow the 'offending' post with a defence of my mare/foal and their looks/performance that day.

    I would not start a new thread on the topic. I would not make two lengthy posts saying it is cruel and unkind to voice an opinion on COTH that did not match mine.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    I dont know about the USA, but in Germany the premium means nothing..... It means that at that moment the commission thinks, that the foal might be an improvement compared to the mother.... If the foal is not having its best day at inspection it doesnt get a premium..
    Most of my foals got premium... So what... doesnt make them any better...


    7 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    18,029

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliCat518 View Post
    I would have never seen your "so-so" foal had you not started this thread.
    I don't know why anyone would "out" their foal as being one that was negatively commented upon anonymously. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Whoever was commenting on your foal is as entitled to hers as you are. Frankly, her comments seem relatively innocous to me. You disagree, which is fine, but she was hardly dragging the foal and your breeding program through the mud. Luckily, the people whose opinion counted on that day (the GOV) was that your foal was nice enough Congrats!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    15 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2010
    Posts
    313

    Default

    After reading the OP here and then searching for the other post it references, I take it that the OP most likely is not taking issue with the assessment of the foal, but rather the comment that the difference between the premium foal and her own was understandable due to quality differences between the mares of said foals.

    FWIW, I did not read that post as particularly inflammatory (I have had much worse said about even my best mare), but I can understand loving a mare and wanting to defend her. I agree with the others that mentioned that it would have been more prudent to bring this up in the other thread in order to perhaps get an explanation from the "offending" poster about why they said it. It could be that there are differences between the mares that made that stallion more preferable for one over the other (I believe the previous thread was about stallions crossing to a certain type of mare) and then the poster could have had the opportunity to clarify and perhaps even educate about this.

    Furthermore, I do not think that the poster was commenting on the mare's production quality, but rather the mare herself. OP, I am glad that your mare is producing high quality offspring for you! Be happy because ultimately what we as breeders are trying to do is to breed mares that out-produce themselves anyway!


    16 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2009
    Location
    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
    Posts
    3,262

    Default

    When you show, do inspections- whichever- you are presenting your animal for an evaluation in the moment..... Relatively in public. If you are that upset over a pretty generic statement- the horse world is not for you. You really need to have a thicker skin.

    I used to get some comments about one of my babies, gasp chestnut filly with bling out of an unregistered mare (but with a performance record) and a not super popular stallion (double gasp). eh. 4 years later she was 6 out of 30 some at Devon, at 5 she hauled her Ammy mother around Devon (me) and people were seeking me out to make offers on her.


    The comments may sting at the time, but time will tell. And please- those comments were mild. Put on big girl breeding panties and let it go. You are letting a vague comment eat at you.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


    12 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ancientoaks View Post
    I don't really think this forum, or any other civilized venue is the place to criticize someone's horses, performances, etc . 'Evaluating' is not the same as what was said here.
    Criticizing (often recognizable or identified) horses, riders, trainers, judges,
    breeders, course designers, show facilities, organizers, etc., is very much part of the culture of this forum. As long as it does not degenerate into "name calling" or the like, it is perfectly acceptable.

    Other people are then free to defend the horse, rider..., and often do.

    There is also plenty of "constructive criticism" .

    But the "unconstructive criticism" is perfectly acceptable as long as it is polite.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


    14 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2008
    Location
    Danville, KY
    Posts
    361

    Default

    If this is the worst thing that has happened to you lately, consider yourself very lucky.
    "I don't know what your generation's fascination is with documenting your every thought... but I can assure you, they're not all diamonds." Mr. G


    21 members found this post helpful.

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