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  1. #1
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    Default Sir Donnerhall and the German Han Verband's Elite Auction

    Noticed four Sir Donnerhalls in the German Hanoverian Verband’s (collection and video on line here http://www.hannoveraner.com/english/) Given the alleged “serious conformational concerns” (or whatever the exact claim about Sir Donnerhall was), I would love to know more about how these foals were received... they didn't seem to go for much (4.000€, 5.000€, 7.000€, and 9.500€).

    Auction tidbits: At 170.000,- €, the jumper Codex One (Contendro I – Glueckspilz) seems to be the top priced horse. I see Laurie’s Crusader as the damsire in several of the top priced horses (# 1, 4, 36)… and I see that #36 -the 3 year old stallion Rotspon's Crusador - was purchased by someone in the USA…. lovely guy… 16.0 ½ hh. Noticed that Rotspon often produces small.
    Last edited by Cartier; Apr. 9, 2006 at 06:30 AM.



  2. #2
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    The prices for the foals were really good I thought (just on top of my head)
    Stedinger fillies, 26K and 22K top selling foals, Contendro 17K, Don Primero 16.5
    Rascalino 12K. and more.

    As far as the Sir Donnerhall, the 5K one is about 7K Dollars, then add 13% on top. So if you were to import this lowest selling one, you would have close to 14K$ in him. Notice NO foals sold to the US!

    It is still early in the season for the foals, they might not have shown well, or had good dams or other thing wrong.

    Yes, Rotspon throws all over the size charts. I tried a 17.2 hand mare in Germany (3 year old!) a few years ago, but have also seen many in the 15.3-16 hands range.

    Bottom line is, with the US dollar so weak, it is not feaseable anymore to buy foals in Germany (unless you are looking for lines you can't get ofcourse).

    I will certainly sell my colts for less than 14K (even the one that is now going to be preseneted to the AHS in a few months was less! ofcourse, we won;t know yet if he makes it, but good chance I think!)

    Sincerely Linda
    www.walnut-farm.com



  3. #3
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    Interesting Linda… but my questions were more specifically about Sir Donnerhall's “serious conformational issues” purportedly noted by the AHS/GHV and whether in fact any such issues exist and are being passed on.

    Irrespective of what it would cost to import a foal[s], these foals were not sold at a “to be imported only” auction… so what it would cost to import them (though interesting) was not one of my concerns and was not a factor in their low auction price. Bottom line, their prices were not high… so, were there serious conformational issue evident in these foals to account for the lower prices? The fact that they were in the Elite Auction suggests that at at least one point in time they were highly thought of. Maybe the foal prices - in general - were just low... with some exceptions like those you noted. I see many (about twenty-five), that went for between 3.000€ and 5.500€ by a wide array of sires.
    Last edited by Cartier; Apr. 9, 2006 at 09:58 PM.



  4. #4
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    Interesting Cartier, that Melissa is buying Sandro Hit mares!!! Also where did you hear the rumors of Sir Donnerhalls conformations defects??? What are they supposed to be?? I thought the foals were pretty nice!!
    http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill



  5. #5
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    Would love to know the scoop on SD. But my all time favorite stallion "Contendro I" is hopefully starting to prove himself thru his foals.



  6. #6
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    In the 2005 April auction, 46 foals sold for an average of $7163

    In the 2006 April auction, 46 foals sold for an average of $9183

    Though no foals sold to the US this year, last year two did though the $ was at a thirty % discount to the euro. THis year it's at a 20% discount.



  7. #7
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    I have only seen three Sir Donnerhall's in person, but all three were spectacular. One was in the Oldenburg Elite Auction. He sold for 45,000 euro. One owned by Judy Yancey...spectacular. One owned by Angela Barilar...same deal. All were out of super nice mares, but even super nice mares don't often produce spectacular. So I too want to know about what the AHS may have said?



  8. #8
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    Well, I am sorry I didn't anwser your specific questions, which I take it as "do the confirmation faults of Sir Donnerhall affect prices?" ??? I didn't see these FOUR foals in person, so can't comment. And also have never so far heard of a trend on Sir Donnerhall foals having "serious conformation fault" what ever that is?????? not sure what sourse that came from, but beware that there is FURIOS competition amongst stallion owners in Germany, and go look for yourself, rather than taking ONE persons word about something.....and then post it. No, don't have a Sir Donnerhall foal and don't plan on using him. But such allegitions really hurts the breeders! I vividly remember when Heike posted the catastrophic news about Rotspons cribbing and that of his offspring, RIGHT as I was trying to sell mine!!! he never did crib and luckily still sold, but I know it DID scare off buyers.

    So, think and confirm before posting. The ramifications of bad info can really hurt someone, and when it hits you, you will perhaps understand?

    Your post was rambling, and hence was my anwser.

    Bottom line: auctions are supply and demand, that simple. Sometime you pay too much, sometimes you get a good deal. If one was always paying to much and no deals to be had, the auctions wouldn't cease to excists.

    So, again, perhaps these FOUR Sir Donnerhall was not showing super? they went for average prices. Like many others like you noted.

    Sincerely Linda
    www.walnut-farm.com



  9. #9
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    By the way, Talked to xxxxx a few days ago, and she was there with 3 clients. Not buying foals, and the foals did not arrive until the day off.

    They bought 2 Sandro Hits.....
    27, 40, 65 91 she wrote, althought it says 40 went to Sweden.....

    Sincerely Linda
    Last edited by Walnut Farm; Apr. 9, 2006 at 08:55 PM.



  10. #10
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    Did anyone notice the fully approved, class 1 stallion that went for $25,400?

    Now the vet report couldn't have been THAT bad, as he had to have radiographs to get approved. I'd really like to know the skinny on that one.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartier
    Given the alleged “serious conformational concerns” (or whatever the exact claim about Sir Donnerhall was), I would love to know more about how these foals were received... they didn't seem to go for much (4.000€, 5.000€, 7.000€, and 9.500€).
    That's absurd. I've seen him in person and while he may not be perfect (no stallion is) I could not take my eyes off of him and he was in the ring with SH at least 20 other SH sons. The foals that I have seen are DDG. I received a video clip of a SD filly a couple of months ago and she was stunning. I tried to buy her but she was already going to the auction. Not sure if it was the Oldenburg or Hanoverian auction. Obviously, the breeder expected to get much more b/c I offered 5,000 euros and I even would have paid a bit more. Irene (WHfarm) would know more since she knows the breeder personally.



  12. #12
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    I would really appriciate if you posted or PM or e-mailed me your sources! Then BS like this wouldn;t happend! I rarely get upset, but this constant unsubstanciated mudslinging speaks very low of ones character!!!

    If you are bored and wanted attention, well, yes, you got mine. I am not going to loose any sleep over it however. Asks for the facts and you shall get them!

    My best
    Linda



  13. #13
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    Quote from Linda Waltz; " Iwould really appriciate if you posted or PM or e-mailed me your sources! Then BS like this wouldn;t happend! I rarely get upset, but this constant unsubstanciated mudslinging speaks very low of ones character!!!

    If you are bored and wanted attention, well, yes, you got mine. I am not going to loose any sleep over it however. Asks for the facts and you shall get them!"


    Linda:

    Boy do you have a chip or what? It is not "bs" as you put it, the fact that you are ignorant of something does not make it false (or bs).

    I am not the only person who knows about this criticism of Sir Donnerhall ... in fact it came up in a discussion with Maryanna Hayman the other day... she had heard of it... it is no secret. (In fact, watching the PSI Stallion DVD at Maryanna's we (Arthur, Wendell, Maryanna and I) were all speculating about what the fault could be... possibly his croup.. but I have no idea and we simply didn't/couldn't see it.) This is not something that I made up. Any Hanoverian breeder in this country who keeps current knows how the AHS feels about SD. If you retract the claws and stop for a moment, you might note that this was not my assessment of Sir Donnerhall, whom we feel is a fabulous young stallion it, it is purportedly the AHS's assessment reflecting some caution in Germany.

    I expect this kind of nasty ignorance from others, but not you. How about you take your own advice and think before you post? On your planet, my posting about information that is commonly known… which you mischaracterize as "constant unsubstanciated mudslinging" "speaks very low of [my] character!!!" Oh really? What does your post say about you? Could it be that you overreact and get personal and nasty out of pure simple ignorance?

    AHS breeders should contact their registry about breeding to Sir Donnerhall and listen to them explain what it is they find objectionable. We think he is a tremendous/superb young stallion.
    Last edited by Cartier; Apr. 9, 2006 at 09:59 PM.



  14. #14
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    Geez, Cartier, as I don't know either of you, I will just say that your prior post sounded like heresay and unsubstantiated rumor, which is not fair to the owners and breeders. When you post something like that on the web, a responsible person will back it up with documented fact, no just malign horses for the fun of it.

    Your post was both vague and derogatory. Both of which are uncalled for, when you're speaking about people's passions and businesses.

    JMHO.

    As a buyer, I would be more inclined to steer clear of breeders who malign others. What they say speaks volumes about themselves.



  15. #15
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    This may be impossible to comprehend, but I did not malign anyone, most certainly not Sir Donnerhall.

    I find Linda's accusations and slurs very offensive and reflective of profound ignorance.

    Nasty personal speculations simply stir the pot. I can understand your mistake (and forgive your not knowing about the AHS postion with respect to Sir Donnerhall)... but I do not understand or excuse the personal attacks based on speculations about my motives. They are so far off base it is frightening.
    Last edited by Cartier; Apr. 9, 2006 at 10:00 PM.



  16. #16
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    What are the alleged serious conformational concerns everyone knows about?



  17. #17
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    Cool

    Elaine/Cartier, Linda is an experienced breeder from Germany. Breeding has been in her family for many generations. She also maintains close contact with German breeders. I would much respect her opinion far over yours. I would recommend you and Arthur taking a nice trip to Germany to see these stallions in person before posting such absurd comments on a public BB. It makes you look really stupid. Hmmmm ... that song by Pink just popped into my head and just won't go away.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoos
    What are the alleged serious conformational concerns everyone knows about?
    She doesn't seem to know. Go figure.



  19. #19
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    as expected, Elaine send me a "nice" e-mail. And it is all hear say.

    What do you want ME to apoligize for? I tried to be nice to answer your original (edited now!!) post?????

    My quirk was NOT with my "apperent ignorance" for Sir Donnerhall, but the fact that you posted hear say (yes, again) and hurting a lot of people? why?

    You STILL have failed to mention the AHS source.....? or the serious conformation fault of Sir Donnerhall? Please enlighten me, since I have no knowledge or keeping current according to you?

    I do NOT claim to know it all!!! and when I don't, I keep my mouth shut!

    Enough said, will e-mail you privately!

    Sincerely Linda



  20. #20
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    70 Day Test Scores from the Celle site:
    (I may have misspelled some of the german words, sorry). Looks pretty impressive to me.

    Here are the scores posted by Celle:
    Charakter, 8
    Temperamer, 9
    Leistrigsber, 9
    Konstitution, 8
    Trob, 9.5
    Galopp, 9.834
    Schritt, 8.334
    Rittigkeit, 10
    Springen, 7.5
    Gelandesper, 8.333

    Gelandeger (sp?), 151.57
    Place, 1
    Dressage, 163.87
    Place, 1
    Springen, 114.08
    Place, 6



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