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  1. #21
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    Jun. 10, 2001
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    Rising Sun, Maryland, USA
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    I wish that it was available. My husband died of cancer... did he need to have those last hours gasping for breath unaware of everything else going on around him? His body was so overtaken by tumors and had internal bleeding... he was not going to recover... What is humane about making people suffer???

    His mother died of cancer. For her it was WEEKS... of not being able to even speak... moaning in pain... unable to even roll over in bed... huge bed sores... she was in hospice care with the theory if you don't eat. So basically the patient IMO either starves to death or dehydrates... organs shut down and eventually the patient dies. It was the most horrific thing I have ever had to watch.

    Had either of those people been animals letting them continue with life would have been cruel, inhumane, and we very well could have ended up with animal cruelty charges.

    And of course if anybody commits suicide to avoid going through a horrible and painful decline filled with great suffering... life insurance policies are null and void. So, if you chose to do this, you leave your family and loved ones with nothing.

    Is there a way to prevent people from taking advantage of life insurance policies and other fraud... and to allow people to have a dignified death without suffering... I think it can and should be done.

    RIP- John & Ann... you both are forever in my heart...
    http://www.leakycreek.com/
    http://leakycreek.wordpress.com/ Rainbows & Mourning Doves Blog
    John P. Smith II 1973-2009 Love Always
    Father, Husband, Friend, Firefighter- Cancer Sucks- Cure Melanoma


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2003
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    I am 100% for it.

    Close family member with terminal cancer that will result- when the disease gets hold- in a swift (2-6 weeks) decline and death. He will be incoherent and unaware, and in any moments where he is even somewhat coherent, he will be in horrific pain.

    We put down a family cat for what we suspect was a similiar cancer this past July. Why on earth could we give the cat a dignified, swift, gentle death but have to bind a human family member to a horrible, undignified, agonizing death?

    It is inhumane.
    "The nice thing about memories is the good ones are stronger and linger longer than the bad and we sure have some incredibly good memories." - EverythingButWings


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jul. 19, 2013
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    I have become a believer in assisted suicide/euthanasia while watching my mother decline. The only things wrong with her are old age--will be 98 next month if she lives that long--and moderate dementia. Every week she regresses in capacity. Soon she'll reach the point that she'll be as helpless as a newborn. She is not physically in excruciating pain, but she has no quality of life; no control; no dignity.

    She has around-the-clock private care givers and hospice nurses who show up three times a week, and will make additional visits whenever we require. I can't help comparing the resources she is consuming while truly poor people have to sit in emergency rooms half a day before somebody has time to check a sick baby. (If they can get to an emergency room at all.)

    I doubt that I would have the courage to commit suicide, but I think it would be a good idea to start saving the proper pills in case you're ready to go before your body gives up.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Apr. 20, 2011
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    the absolute worst experience of my life was when my father was brought to the hospital on an "end of life admission"

    doctors were putting him in a medically induced coma, but he was ?fighting? the meds, or maybe they just hadn't worked enough, but he kept "waking up" and yelling "i'm so sorry" and "I love you, I love you all" this went on for hours!

    it. was. HORRIBLE!

    for some unknown to me reason, they had a button HE could push to up the dose of the meds (how could he push it when he was incoherent???!!!) and I kept asking how many times did I have to push it to just be done?? at one point I really thought his Dr was going to clue me in on some way, but he didn't :-(

    this might be horrible to admit, but when my mother was dying, she was at home with hospice, and my sister and I were so terrified to have to go thru the same as with dad, we hoarded her liquid morphine and had every intention of doing every thing we could to prevent it. I think mom knew, and slipped into a coma in the middle of the night.

    for me?? I don't know how I might arrange it, without denying my family of my insurance benefits, but I have every intention of doing what I can to make it quick.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2005
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    Back to Normal.. or as close as I'll ever get
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    When my Dad was in the terminal stages of COPD/CHF the visiting nurses "advised" my brother (Dad's caretaker) to be mindful of the lethal dose of the prescribed morphine & Lorazepam.
    I fully believe they were counseling him on providing a way out for Dad if he chose & I hope I would have had the strength to take that advice.
    *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
    Steppin' Out 1988-2004
    Hey Vern! 1982-2009
    Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2DogsFarm View Post
    When my Dad was in the terminal stages of COPD/CHF the visiting nurses "advised" my brother (Dad's caretaker) to be mindful of the lethal dose of the prescribed morphine & Lorazepam.
    I fully believe they were counseling him on providing a way out for Dad if he chose & I hope I would have had the strength to take that advice.
    When I was looking after someone with COPD, in hospice care at home, the visiting nurses never did say anything about that.
    The choice that patient made was to starve at home under hospice care.
    The alternative would have been living a few more days/weeks in a hospital bed with feeding tubes, ventilator and medical intervention during the crisis, a bad quality to end of life she didn't want.

    Her sister died after several weeks in the hospital with bone cancer and knocked out.
    Every time she was let come out of the painkillers enough to function, she would scream in pain and be extremely agitated asking to be killed, to let her go.
    A horrible experience, an inhumanity to humans we permit, shame on us.

    Sure would have been more humane for a doctor to legally asses the situation, have up front consent forms necessary signed if someone so desires and when the situation comes, if death doesn't happen naturally, give them an overdose.

    I have signed those for the vet clinic, would love to know I can sign one for myself, so I don't have to dread being in that situation some day.
    Do not resuscitate forms don't go far enough.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
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    NY
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    My friend just stopped eating, I don't know if he refused fluids though was told he was drinking Grappa(harsh Italian liquor) the day before he died in the hospital.
    Friend of my fathers stopped drinking water as well as not eating, and died in three days.
    I am glad we don't have it where another person makes the decision, I have too hard a time "second guessing" my pets euthanasia.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Apr. 20, 2011
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    I agree that it's a good thing we don't have it so that another can make a decision, because there's always those who are immoral and unethical and would have their own agendas........

    but for myself, having been there--- and facing the possibility of being there again with my husband due to his returning cancer??

    I have the belief that I could. pull the plug, or push the button or pour the liquid down a throat. no way am I saying it would be easy, but it would definitely be the lesser of "two evils" for lack of a better term.

    ~~ and I'm not putting this out there with selfish intent, as in, because *I* couldn't take watching them suffer, but because just as we don't ever want our animals to linger and suffer, I feel our human loved ones should be afforded the same dignified peaceful (as much as possible) end.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2000
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    CT
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    When my mom was dying of cancer the doctors were pretty good about the pain medication. They did start out with the stupid pump (which mom was soon unable to work in time to avoid pain, but which she had wanted, I think for control)

    When we were very near the end we did stop any forced food or water ( no Iv or tube feeding, she could take in orally what she wanted to- she soon did not want anything) And when the pain was too great she was put on "terminal sedation" which kept her unconscious. I would have ended it sooner for her if I could, but it was fairly humane.

    A more difficult question for my dad. As his dementia progressed, he was unhappy, but now that it has progressed to him being very childlike, he is seemingly content. I know he would not have wanted this, but awfully hard to think of ending his life when he is not in physical pain and is somewhat content with his limited understanding. I think he would want me to, but I think he would have had to have made that decision when he was able.

    For myself, I wish I knew of an "easy" way out in bad circumstances. I dont want to suffer through end-stage cancer if mine reoccurs, nor do I want to have end-stage dementia like my dad. I don't have dependents, so no insurance worries, but I know I would have difficulty doing something violent and I wouldn't want to traumatize someone finding me afterwards...



  10. #30
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    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Rochester,NY,USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    I certainly hope euthanasia is legal in all 50 states by the time I am old
    I'm right there with you on this.
    Sue
    Back in my day, we didn't have as many warning labels because people weren't so dang stupid!



  11. #31
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    Aug. 25, 2012
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    641

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    Check your insurance policy the suicide exclusion is normally for the first 2 years the policy is in place.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, you have all those hospices out there taking care of those that don't want heroic measures taken to keep prolonging their lives, as hospitals are mandated to carry on for most patients under their care.

    If that is not what you want, suicide can be an alternative, but better not wait too long, until you can't carry it on your own.
    When my mom was dying of a brain tumor we did the in home hospice. The nurses told me to give her as much medication as needed to keep her comfortable. I had access to phenobarbitol, fentanyl, morphine and atavan. I did not have to account for the amount I used. When she died, even before her body was removed, the nurse came and dumped all I had remaining down the toilet(in retrospect not the best for the ground water) and there was no autopsy.
    I don't know if I shortened her life by a few hours or days, I certainly could have, but I kept her as comfortable as I could
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  13. #33
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    May. 16, 2005
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    Elmwood, Wisconsin
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    A possible work around in insurance would be to have a
    policy that allows payout when terminally ill but still
    alive. The insurance company's idea was that a person
    might need the money for extreme health care or other
    bills when desparately ill so could collect while still
    living. Someone who was terminal and intending to
    choose euthanasia could take the payout and then terminate
    without losing the benefit. Only problem with that would
    be tax consequences for heirs.
    Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, Wisconsin



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    When my mom was dying of a brain tumor we did the in home hospice. The nurses told me to give her as much medication as needed to keep her comfortable. I had access to phenobarbitol, fentanyl, morphine and atavan. I did not have to account for the amount I used. When she died, even before her body was removed, the nurse came and dumped all I had remaining down the toilet(in retrospect not the best for the ground water) and there was no autopsy.
    I don't know if I shortened her life by a few hours or days, I certainly could have, but I kept her as comfortable as I could
    We only had morphine to give sub-lingual, for anxiety, with COPD there was no real pain.
    I kept records of all we gave or did, medications and how much, baths, food, clean catheter bags, any and all.
    That is what you do to keep track of what is done and when during that stressful time.
    At death, 2 am, the nurse came and did the same, flushed medications down the toilet and took some with her, no records of anything and tore up and discarded all those record sheets we had kept.

    I will say, towards the end, if the patient had thought anyone was going to give her anything to end her life, she would have been way more anxious and worried.
    Not a good idea to have those questions when someone is not thinking clearly any more.

    Would be better if the right to determine when to end your life can be made way beforehand, like the DNR form, not when we may be impaired.


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  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2006
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    GA
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    To me it is a grey area. I agree with ending the suffering because it is the humane thing to do. The horsewoman in me says it is a no brainer. The other part of me says suicide is a mortal sin, and having someone else to do it for you at your request is still suicide, so I don't know. I do not want to be put on life support and if I got cancer and it was caught VERY early, I would do chemo. If it was just a case of extending life instead of a real chance at curing the cancer, I would forego it, and just let nature take its course. I hate that people are put in this position to even have to make this call, and have their hands tied. It should be an individual choice, though the slope is VERY VERY treacherous.

    We had to pull the plug on my mama, and it was the hardest thing I have ever done. Standing there knowing that she was going to be better off, that we were doing the right thing, but realistically letting my mama die and doing nothing to stop it right then just ripped me to shreds.

    When Daddy died it was just weird. He had, supposedly, the beginning stages of dementia/Alzheimers, though my personal belief was that it was a side effect of a particularly nasty bout of West Nile and Encephalitis and a brain bleed he had. I told him I would take care of him, it didn't matter how much care he needed, I would do it gladly. He was my hero and deserved nothing less. He just smiled at me told me he didn't want his grandbabies to see him as a doddering old man. that was in Feb 2005. March 2007, he was hit by a car. I am not sure if he was pushed by the stepmonster at his behest or if he just stepped out in front of it on purpose. The comment was made often in our family that sometimes an accident is an unhappy person's best friend. They medicated him, and told me he was going to be in surgery Monday. This happened Friday night. My sisters and I were not able to get there until late Sunday. He was laughing and cutting up with the nurses and flirting 20 minutes before he died. I think he chose this way out, though he didn't call Dotty Debby or me while he was in the hospital Saturday to say bye. That was his way though. If he knew he would catch grief about something, he followed the better to ask forgiveness than permission route his whole life.

    Sorry for the rambling post. It just touches home and confuses the heck out of me
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  16. #36
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabby.gator View Post
    the absolute worst experience of my life was when my father was brought to the hospital on an "end of life admission"

    doctors were putting him in a medically induced coma, but he was ?fighting? the meds, or maybe they just hadn't worked enough, but he kept "waking up" and yelling "i'm so sorry" and "I love you, I love you all" this went on for hours!

    it. was. HORRIBLE!

    for some unknown to me reason, they had a button HE could push to up the dose of the meds (how could he push it when he was incoherent???!!!) and I kept asking how many times did I have to push it to just be done?? at one point I really thought his Dr was going to clue me in on some way, but he didn't :-(

    this might be horrible to admit, but when my mother was dying, she was at home with hospice, and my sister and I were so terrified to have to go thru the same as with dad, we hoarded her liquid morphine and had every intention of doing every thing we could to prevent it. I think mom knew, and slipped into a coma in the middle of the night.

    for me?? I don't know how I might arrange it, without denying my family of my insurance benefits, but I have every intention of doing what I can to make it quick.
    The pumps have a limit....usually how frequently you can get a dose and how much over an hour. So, you could have pushed that button every second and it wouldn't have made a difference.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  17. #37
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    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Los Angeles, California
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    Doesn't
    ''Do no harm''
    Also mean not prolonging suffering or reducing the rest of the family to homelessness poverty?

    How fast would a hospital honor a patients wishes if instead of a DNR the patient had a signed document that read YOU WON'T BE PAID WON'T BE PAID.
    I'll bet that would be a DNR they would honor.
    The Denver Broncos went to visit an orphanage. "It's so sad looking into their faces so devoid of hope." Sara aged 6



  18. #38
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    Apr. 20, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    The pumps have a limit....usually how frequently you can get a dose and how much over an hour. So, you could have pushed that button every second and it wouldn't have made a difference.
    I know, and knew it then, I think we were just so overwrought that I just wanted to do SOMETHING for him :-(



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    The pumps have a limit....usually how frequently you can get a dose and how much over an hour. So, you could have pushed that button every second and it wouldn't have made a difference.
    ah, jeez, who invented that? So you could sit there endlessly pushing and get nothing because you used up your dose. What the heck is the reasoning there?



  20. #40
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    Aug. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin@DHH View Post
    A possible work around in insurance would be to have a
    policy that allows payout when terminally ill but still
    alive. The insurance company's idea was that a person
    might need the money for extreme health care or other
    bills when desparately ill so could collect while still
    living. Someone who was terminal and intending to
    choose euthanasia could take the payout and then terminate
    without losing the benefit. Only problem with that would
    be tax consequences for heirs.
    The payout isn't for the full life insurance amount though. There is a percentage of the total they will pay out as well as a max dollar amount.

    Again most policies limit the suicide exclusion to the first two years a policy is in place.



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