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  1. #21
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    Massachusetts is a relatively "rich" state. What works in Massachusetts will not necessarily work in the rest of the country.

    The ACA does not really result in AFFORDABLE coverage. The prices that I have heard quoted all of the country sound ridiculous to me for a person to pay out of pocket.

    The USA still will spend the most on health coverage by far and has worse medical outcomes than other first world countries. There are a number of small reasons but the one really huge difference is that the government cannot negotiate prices. A single payer system is the only way to do health care and make it affordable.

    Here is the REAL explanation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

    Everyone needs to educate himself on this issue.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    12 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    My Dad's business partner has been on the phone all day with the insurance (sorry, this was Friday, not today). His insurance, and hang on lemme get the email...


    OK, here's the direct quote from the email:

    "He just got his insurance notice. He has blue cross/blue shield. His insurance is going from 177.00/month to 645.00/month. Gotta love that Obamacare."

    My Dad is anti ACA, so he calls it Obamacare just like all the other Tea Partyers, but that doesn't make him stupid. He knows why the insurance is going up.

    ETA: Thankfully my Dad is retired military, so he's covered affordably while finishing up cancer treatment. DH is active duty and I'm union covered. I pity people who have insurance now and are going to be affected by this, not in a condescending way, just in a sad way.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    So far the only ridiculous prices for the ACA plans I've heard have been easily debunked on snopes.com as total BS.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    So far the only ridiculous prices for the ACA plans I've heard have been easily debunked on snopes.com as total BS.
    Well, CBS (a national news media company) has reported that it varies depending on the state, or even location within a state. But it quoted an average for a single 40 year old man as close to $400 per month. As you know, family plans are usually at least double that. Do I have to snopes check the main stream media now?

    Now, how much is too much to pay for health insurance? If housing costs are calculated at 40% of a person's income (as permitted by mortgagees) then how much of the remainder is affordable for health insurance?

    I think some people have no idea what incomes are like for most people in most of the USA. The median is about $50,000 per household. So a family plan can cost 20% of gross household income. That is probably the second highest cost after housing and is not affordable in my view.

    The solution is lowering the cost of health care. Not propping it up artificially so that we can continue to pay far more money for worse medical outcomes than the rest of the first world.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    13 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Massachusetts is a relatively "rich" state. What works in Massachusetts will not necessarily work in the rest of the country.

    The ACA does not really result in AFFORDABLE coverage. The prices that I have heard quoted all of the country sound ridiculous to me for a person to pay out of pocket.

    The USA still will spend the most on health coverage by far and has worse medical outcomes than other first world countries. There are a number of small reasons but the one really huge difference is that the government cannot negotiate prices. A single payer system is the only way to do health care and make it affordable.

    Here is the REAL explanation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

    Everyone needs to educate himself on this issue.
    I was very surprised last week to learn that my company is taking away our current health insurance plan and substituting it for high deductible plan with coinsurance. That is a big change from $20 co pay for a Dr visit and everything else covered.

    At first I was really pissed but then stopped to think about it. I currently pay $167 a month for an individual plan. That is roughly $2000 a year.

    That will change to $50 per month or $60 per year.

    I will have a $1500 deductible which bites. My company will contribute $450 to an HSA so that drops my out of pocket to roughly $1000 per year. The $1000 comes out of my HSA pretax, to is probably equivalent to $700 out of pocket.

    So far, so good. I can handle that.

    The very distasteful part is the 10% coinsurance up to $4500. so, if I break a leg and have $45000 in bills, I will have another $4500 out of pocket expenses.

    I am lucky in that I can afford that $4500 and presumably (hopefully) that kind of expense would be rare.

    The benefit of the HSA type insurance is I can contribute extra, up to $3300 a year pre-tax and that money can be invested somewhere. I'm guessing the investment vehicle will not be anything exciting but it will be pretax and earning at least some pittance of insurance.

    In less that two years, I can at least have a years worth of coinsurance at my fingertips.

    Also, you can set it up so your coinsurance automatically gets paid out of your HSA or not. One suggestion is to not pay it automatically and pay small, manageable expenses out of pocket in order to let the HSA account grow. I'm supposed to believe this is a good thing because this HSA stays with me even when i leave jobs and I take it with me into retirement.

    Woohoo. I suppose when we get screwed on social security and medicaide after the baby boomers have wiped us out, the money I can save in that 20 years would probably pay for my first hospitalization before I am bankrupt.

    I'm trying to remain open minded, I really am. I know the system is broken. But I'm not happy my employer, who has pretty much held pay increases for 5 years is now also passing on health care expense to me. OTOH, it makes me much less likely to continue to think I need to be employed by a company. Self employment has become more affordable since there are options.

    And, if I think my employers plan sucks, I can spend more and go to a state run exchange for about $350 a month but with a low deductible plan. But I'm thinking that is only worth it if you have reason to believe you would have needed your insurance enough to have to pay out that deductible.

    I have a feeling within the next few years, my employer will move us all to an HSA account where they make a small contribution but we then go shop for our won insurance. I'm also sure that my company will not pass along the huge savings to us..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Small businesses who have under 50 employees are not mandated to provide health insurance as a benefit under the ACA, so unless this business has over 50 employees, this sounds like BS, or a planted post by those that want to trash the ACA, and they will take any opportunity to do it. So much ignorance out there.

    You have the option for shopping for your own plan now that might be cheaper. Or quit the job and go turn your life upside down, your choice.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    May. 12, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Well, CBS (a national news media company) has reported that it varies depending on the state, or even location within a state. But it quoted an average for a single 40 year old man as close to $400 per month. As you know, family plans are usually at least double that. Do I have to snopes check the main stream media now?
    Well, a friend, in his 50's was paying for two individual policies - one for himself and one for his wife after his COBRA ran out from his lay off. They could not get a family plan because she is a cancer survivor. Her plan was $1500/month and recently they had to drop it due to expenses. His plan is just under $1000/month now. If a new plan, even a high deductible plan, would cost $500/month, they would be thrilled.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    Well, a friend, in his 50's was paying for two individual policies - one for himself and one for his wife after his COBRA ran out from his lay off. They could not get a family plan because she is a cancer survivor. Her plan was $1500/month and recently they had to drop it due to expenses. His plan is just under $1000/month now. If a new plan, even a high deductible plan, would cost $500/month, they would be thrilled.
    Of course! But it is the healthy young people who are being asked to sign up to subsidize those people, which may not in and of itself be a negative thing, but it is not affordable for them--particularly where they are really not going to consume the benefit. Again, I ask, why does the USA continue to pay far, far more (at least double) for healthcare and have worse medical outcomes. The ACA does nothing to fix this--instead it perpetuates it. Please look at the video that I posted at #21.

    Maybe they should have called "the more affordable health care act for some people?"
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    10 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Of course! But it is the healthy young people who are being asked to sign up to subsidize those people, which may not in and of itself be a negative thing, but it is not affordable for them--particularly where they are really not going to consume the benefit. Again, I ask, why does the USA continue to pay far, far more (at least double) for healthcare and have worse medical outcomes. The ACA does nothing to fix this--instead it perpetuates it. Please look at the video that I posted at #21.

    Maybe they should have called "the more affordable health care act for some people?"
    I agree, I would have much preferred single payer. How do you propose to get that through Congress and our current political situation.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    11 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    May. 12, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Of course! But it is the healthy young people who are being asked to sign up to subsidize those people, which may not in and of itself be a negative thing, but it is not affordable for them--particularly where they are really not going to consume the benefit. Again, I ask, why does the USA continue to pay far, far more (at least double) for healthcare and have worse medical outcomes. The ACA does nothing to fix this--instead it perpetuates it. Please look at the video that I posted at #21.

    Maybe they should have called "the more affordable health care act for some people?"
    I do not agree with you for my area of the country. My friend has been paying about $400/month in insurance for years and she is 31. She has had an individual plan since she was about 23. It may be different where you are from, but a single person in good health has been paying about $400 for years now.

    I just looked myself up in the marketplace. It starts with a $10,000 deductible, %20 coinsurance and $0 copay for $59.61. For $422/month, I get a PPO with a $100 deductible, %10 coinsurance and $25 copay. That's a pretty nice plan for a cost you may think is to high, but most medium sized companies I know do not offer a plan as nice as that.

    For $198.10/ month, you can have a $1,000 deductible 30% coinsurance, $0 copay. That is about the average plan around here. Deductible is usually higher, but it is about average. When I last had health benefits through a small employer, I paid about $350/month for a plan that was a bit worse than that. It had a $2,000 deductible and $30 copay. That was about six years ago.

    It may be different in another area of the country, but around here, the plans are very affordable and through major carriers.

    The major carriers may be upping their premiums a lot this year with the thought to get as many people on a subsidized plan as possible, thinking that is more guaranteed money.
    Last edited by Ajierene; Oct. 13, 2013 at 09:30 AM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Apr. 18, 2010
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    A single payer plan not connected to employment would be better...maybe in 20 years we can catch up to other developed countries and offer it

    The RW /GOP has always voted down single payer insurance calling it "socialist"....never mind that everyone would benefit. Maybe in two decades it will happen, or sooner if people stop being brainwashed .


    10 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I agree, I would have much preferred single payer. How do you propose to get that through Congress and our current political situation.
    A lot more education like the video that I posted at #21 might start to change public opinion and put pressure on politicians. People in the USA all parrot that we have THE BEST healthcare on the planet and this is simply not true at all as statistics show. Perhaps if we let the real free market play out (instead of ensuring the profits of big insurance, big pharma and big med) people would come to see that we need a single payer system.

    To be honest, I don't believe that either party really wants to change the status quo. Insurance company and medical industry have too much at stake and they lobby and donate very effectively. Remember that the prescription drug coverage act has an express provision in the law that prohibits the government from negotiating prices with the drug companies. That's NUTS! I see an incredible amount of advertising of drugs and of hospital services (joint replacements, etc.) on television. Why do they need to advertise products and services that people need? Where do they get the money to do that? The system is completely broken and people need to learn the facts.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    11 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourcolorfuladdiction View Post
    Yup it's a real bummer that he want's everyone to have health care so that when you go to the hospital for surgery you're not paying exorbitant fees because joe shmoe came through the ER last week, needed surgery, and then defaulted on his bill because he had no health insurance to cover the surgery and couldn't pay for it. Darn, I know how much you must love paying high fees for surgery.

    Also, "saw a big jump when allowing dependents until age 26 was added. Who did the American people think was going to pay for this." I'm pretty sure the primary policy holder pays for the dependent And there wasn't a big jump, again, the increases have been lower more recently.

    Obamacare has been passed by the congress and the house of representatives and upheld by the supreme court. I think it's pathetic that the republicans have stooped so low as to shut down the government and put so many hard working people on furlough because they want to change it instead of just passing a reasonable budget.
    I'm not going to rehash the whole Obamacare bill to law disaster other than to say I was one who agreed, health insurance had problems. A thoughtful review and new regulations were in order to assist those caught in loopholes. What was created has turned the system upside down and the problems outweigh the benefits to date.

    Has anyone considered how much money is being sucked out of average peoples pockets for health insurance coverage in 2014 that will not be spent on dinners out, on little improvements around homes and other things that come under "disposable income"? If it cost $100-$400 more each month for health insurance that money isn't going into the economy. For example, on a local level folks will cancel horseback riding lessons, some folks will end up selling their horses because it's over their budget now, horse show numbers will go down, less work for farriers, vets, tack and feed stores. It will have a ripple effect just like we saw a few years back.

    Knock yourself out defending the law. I could not care less. It is an unmitigated disaster and the damage will be felt for years (generation) to come until something is changed. FTR, I have a kiddo who is furloughed and they are toughing it out. OTOH, her active duty solider husband is allowed once a year live ammo target practice field time due to military budget cutbacks. This is the second or third year for that. So a man who is employed to use a gun accurately at variable distances, a man who is "on call" for deployment, does not fire live rounds. But Sandra Fluke got her contraception. What a country, everyone gets screwed.


    19 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    I'm interested in this thread as a friend is very pro-ACA and hates it when I call it Obamacare, which of course I do all the time (same as the liberal newscasters ).

    "Supposedly" Medicare is not to be affected. I'll wait and see. Last yr my Medicare expense went down from $110 to $99.90(Obamacare had not yet kicked in). Also last yr the company I retired from that was "supposed" to provide health insurance coverage till I die, dropped all the retirees that were Medicare eligible. I was able to pick up a plan with BCBS for $0 premium as compared a similar plan that MVP offered for $48/month. I have a health care meeting this coming Friday with BCBS to see what they are offering this year.
    Sue
    Back in my day, we didn't have as many warning labels because people weren't so dang stupid!



  15. #35
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    I think it is not possible to judge till it is fully in place (this is the first week the exchanges are even open, and they opened amidst a gov t shutdown)

    It has to be a year before we know the initial results, how people can jump to conclusions before it is even in place and competition develops from providers and enough people buy from the exchanges to matter is a big question mark.

    Nobody is "forced " to buy a high price policy, buy a low base level policy if that suits you and spend the extra money on dinners etc.

    Overall, with more options, more people will likely pay less for insurance than presently, but we have to give it time before we really know.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Countrywood- the fees for health insurance coverage are going up no matter the type of policy someone has chosen. We have a basic to mid-level policy and it went up. In this thread there have been examples of fee increases that are measurable. Time will tell for sure.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    My husband works for a large multi-national corporation. Health ins costs have been going up every yr since forever. Deductibles have been increasing etc. this is nothing new. Many corps have stated many times over the yrs that they shouldn't be in the business of insuring their employees. Can't blame ACA.
    As far as having to pay for health ins and not able to pay for riding lessons etc....
    Too bad. I don't want to pay for your injuries riding your horse. Many on this board have criticized horse owners who own the horse but can pay for the vet etc. Well that can be extended to their own well being.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrywood View Post
    A single payer plan not connected to employment would be better...maybe in 20 years we can catch up to other developed countries and offer it

    The RW /GOP has always voted down single payer insurance calling it "socialist"....never mind that everyone would benefit. Maybe in two decades it will happen, or sooner if people stop being brainwashed .
    We are held hostage by insurance companies greedy for profits. My employer pays for my health plan, they pay almost $1200.00 per month, and I still have deductibles, co pays, etc. If they gave that money to me I would shop for a better and cheaper plan. I know they are out there.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*


    6 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    My Lord, you need a college/university degree to understand all that lingo.. it boggles the mind of Canadians, really! I still would rather pay income tax and not have to worry about all the deductibles, co-pays, which doctor/hospital I can go to. I hardly pay any income tax and I have peace of mind!
    How can the supposedly greatest country in the world be so backwards when it comes to health care?


    18 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Aug. 6, 2002
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    My insurance is great & cost didn't raise at all. Usually we have a 10 -15% increase per year, but this year, nothing.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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