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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2006
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    Default Can we play armchair vet....looking for experiences that might help

    I've posted a couple of threads about PSD Surgery.

    We ended up at NC State today because it was going to cost too much to ship him out to R and R in Kentucky.

    In hind sight, that ended up being a good thing, because whatever is going on with this horse, doesn't seem to affect the suspensory nerve.

    My field vet ultrasounded him last March and we found old adhesions in the right hind suspensory. We stall rested, did PRP, shockwave, no work for 7 months.

    Horse seemed to be getting better...had a relapse in June..where he couldn't walk. Presented like an abcess...again..Right hind. We treated with stall rest, surpass, bute...in two or three days you would have never known it happened.

    We were cleared to go back SLOWLY two weeks ago...5 minutes of walk and about 1 minute of trot every other day. By the third ride, he was really glitchy in right hind.

    So long story short....we took him to the vet school assuming it was the suspensory and were hoping to have an appendectomy.

    I spent the entire day at the vet school...they blocked the leg..first the lower, then the suspensory, then the stifle....still lame...they blocked the tibula to get the entire mid leg...no change.

    They palpated the pelvis to see if there were signs of pelvic fracture..nothing.

    He goes for a full bone scan tomorrow...of course, we all know and they know that many things will light up. He has two issues...seems to be lame on the right hind and lame on the right front. So now we start sorting this out. I asked one of the vets for a hunch (knowing that he can't diagnose without more test)...his hunch is something with the SI...but told me not to rule out the leg...he may have been painful enough that the blocks didn't work....he doubted it, but still a possibility (Horse had blocked 90-95 percent sound on suspensory in March).

    A friend of mine has suggested having them run a Lymes titer...this horse has lived in MN, NJ, NC, and FL. He seemed to blow up initially when he returned from Florida four years ago. Since then, we've had boughts of lamness, even when we got him sound. Granted...there were some shoeing issues, feet angle issues that were addressed and fixed...led the horse to become sound....but yet, we would still have a bought of lameness that would come on and then subside over a few weeks. He has always carried his tail to the left (he's oldenburg, not arab)...I've had several vets, farriers and chiropractors comment that this is odd. He has carried his tail to the side since I've known him (about 6 years). He also has a high right front foot, low left front.

    Anyone want to offer thoughts. I'm hoping we are finally going to get some sort of answer in the next couple of days. Fingers crossed.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2012
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    518

    Default

    No advice other than saying Lyme disease, and chronic undiagnosed Lyme, is really a silent killer and can present with all kinds of crazy symptoms. If you're going to such extremes as it is to find the cause of your horse's problems you might as well do a Lyme test and/or treat with Doxy for 30 days and see what happens. Sending jingles, hope he feels better soon one way or another!


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    I assume appendectomy is an auto correct fail! Jingles.



  4. #4
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Jingles!

    I assume you ruled out back muscle type issues as they can show has hind end lameness.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2010
    Posts
    547

    Default

    What does his head bobbing look like, in relation to his feet landing?
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 10, 2008
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Neuro...had one that presented with stifle lameness. Blistered, injected, did the whole nine yards, no improvement. Finally sent for bone scan and the neck lit up. Rads showed bone spurs in the neck.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2005
    Location
    Unionville, PA
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    My horse blocked to the suspensory too, and when ultrasounded showed a lesion. But when I took him to New Bolton for PrP, etc. no lesion showed up on US, and he did not block. Just a precautionary tale to bring up the possibility that it might never have been the suspensory. My guy did not block up to the stifle, nor the SI, and nothing significant showed up on the bonescan. The best guess it that it was some sort of soft tissue injury in the SI/glut region. He is still lame about 5 months out, but getting better.

    He did test positive for chronic/acute Lyme, and the treatment seemed to speed up his recovery.
    Last edited by kcmel; Oct. 10, 2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: added info on Lyme
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  8. #8

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    My horse had diagonal lamenesses; RH and LF. It turned out to be a ligament injury around the L1 area in her back. One vet was convinced it was her hocks, another was convinced it was her SI...both areas x-ray'd, bone scanned, and ultrasounded just fine. The bone scan picked up a bit of uptake in her back and an ultrasound found the ligament injury.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    I assume appendectomy is an auto correct fail! Jingles.
    LOL....no, just a tired owner who can't think straight. We were going to have the PSD surgery where the nerve is cut.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    What does his head bobbing look like, in relation to his feet landing?
    Head goes down when the right front lands.....they attached the lameness diagnostic equipment to him (not sure about that).To me, it looked like his feet were everywhere.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalEagle View Post
    Neuro...had one that presented with stifle lameness. Blistered, injected, did the whole nine yards, no improvement. Finally sent for bone scan and the neck lit up. Rads showed bone spurs in the neck.
    Interesting....was there any treatment available, or was the horse done.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    Jingles!

    I assume you ruled out back muscle type issues as they can show has hind end lameness.
    Done everything that I can think of with vets and chiros...thus why we ended up paying for the bone scan.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcmel View Post
    My horse blocked to the suspensory too, and when ultrasounded showed a lesion. But when I took him to New Bolton for PrP, etc. no lesion showed up on US, and he did not block. Just a precautionary tale to bring up the possibility that it might never have been the suspensory. My guy did not block up to the stifle, nor the SI, and nothing significant showed up on the bonescan. The best guess it that it was some sort of soft tissue injury in the SI/glut region. He is still lame about 5 months out, but getting better.

    He did test positive for chronic/acute Lyme, and the treatment seemed to speed up his recovery.

    Yup....or did whatever this is, cause him the suspensory injury. I'm just hoping we get an answer.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 30, 2010
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    Alberta
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    Sounds a lot like how my broken necked gelding presented. I stopped riding him when we couldn't resolve his issues, but it took years to diagnose as it presented like a hind end issue. He is now 10 years old, and retired...and very obnoxious.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    Sounds a lot like how my broken necked gelding presented. I stopped riding him when we couldn't resolve his issues, but it took years to diagnose as it presented like a hind end issue. He is now 10 years old, and retired...and very obnoxious.

    Did you ever do chiro? I'm curious if you did, did he ever act painful in the neck.



  16. #16
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    Sep. 10, 2008
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    Dalpal I elected not to put anymore money into the horse but I was told a myleogram was the next step and injection of the facet joints and or the basket surgery was an option. Horse was done for my purposes.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalEagle View Post
    Dalpal I elected not to put anymore money into the horse but I was told a myleogram was the next step and injection of the facet joints and or the basket surgery was an option. Horse was done for my purposes.
    Understood......I was given this boy a few years back by a friend who was done trying to fix him then. I couldn't afford an upper 5 figure horse, so we took him. Got him sound for a couple of years....so I'm willing to sink a few grand into him to see if we can fix him..knowing that the outcome may simply be closure and knowing it isn't fixable.


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  18. #18
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    Jul. 1, 2010
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    Dalpal, heavy on a front would indicate opposite rear to me, but you say his right hind is a problem. A high low situation indicates to me you either have an upright or clubby foot on the right. Usually not the dominant hoof unless the low one is sore from over use. So what you are describing makes absolutely no sence to me.

    You say his feet look like they are all over the place during the exam, you are probably right, he is probably sore all over his body. Without pictures of the horse standing relaxed as possible it would be hard to detect a sore stance. I can tell you this for sure. A high low situation in the front can be caused by deep seated infection in the sulci of the frog, that usually takes the horse upon his toe to avoid the discomfort in the heel. Causing the heel to go upright and possibly shear from within. It will also short stride on that hoof an the opposite rear as well. This causes an imbalance in the horse and a very uneven stride. As all this is happening his opposite side left front in this case is taking the weight and causing the flattening of the hoof ( it eventually becomes flat low and sore) that will cause him to use the least hurting side ( now in your case the right front) the left front may be low and over worked from the right rear injury and has been that way for some time. That would make sence to me.

    My honest opinion is you have sore front feet, (left possibly sole sore, right being frog sore)an old injury in the right hind and a very sore left hind. Stiff back and neck, and in desperate need on a good Chiro and acupuncture.

    I really do hope you find the cause. But I believe it is caused by multiple things, probably all you can heal on your own. Start on his frogs, and feet.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Default

    What did the bone scan show?



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    Dalpal, heavy on a front would indicate opposite rear to me, but you say his right hind is a problem. A high low situation indicates to me you either have an upright or clubby foot on the right. Usually not the dominant hoof unless the low one is sore from over use. So what you are describing makes absolutely no sence to me.

    You say his feet look like they are all over the place during the exam, you are probably right, he is probably sore all over his body. Without pictures of the horse standing relaxed as possible it would be hard to detect a sore stance. I can tell you this for sure. A high low situation in the front can be caused by deep seated infection in the sulci of the frog, that usually takes the horse upon his toe to avoid the discomfort in the heel. Causing the heel to go upright and possibly shear from within. It will also short stride on that hoof an the opposite rear as well. This causes an imbalance in the horse and a very uneven stride. As all this is happening his opposite side left front in this case is taking the weight and causing the flattening of the hoof ( it eventually becomes flat low and sore) that will cause him to use the least hurting side ( now in your case the right front) the left front may be low and over worked from the right rear injury and has been that way for some time. That would make sence to me.

    My honest opinion is you have sore front feet, (left possibly sole sore, right being frog sore)an old injury in the right hind and a very sore left hind. Stiff back and neck, and in desperate need on a good Chiro and acupuncture.

    I really do hope you find the cause. But I believe it is caused by multiple things, probably all you can heal on your own. Start on his frogs, and feet.
    Yup. I got the horse like this. His feet were so bad that we had the navicular bone rubbing against another bone (I'm terrible at remembering proper names). Have a fabulous farrier who got him sound for two years. I made the mistake of letting his work load become too much with training. We gave him 7 months rest and even let him go barefoot for awhile. It'll be interesting to see bone scan results tomorrow. I'll update the thread.



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