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  1. #1
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    Oct. 18, 2007
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    Default In utero sales

    I have someone interested in buying one of my babies in utero. I have not done that as of yet but certainly not opposed. Do any of you have some insights as to how to make this transaction go well...pitfalls and tips for success.

    TIA



  2. #2
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    I have some insight, but from the buyers side...which hopefully helps. I never actually did this in the end while I was breeding.

    I purchased an inutero contract last year from Century Ranch (who sell FABULOUS dutch horses) and it has gone so extremely well. I put down a deposit to hold the contract, and the balance was due upon the birth of my healthy foal. I had insurance in place once the foal was 48 hours old and could be inspected by the vet. I have a super colt now by Freestyle out of a ster KWPN mare named Poska by Juventus out of a Rubinstein mare that is on the top producing mare list in Holland. It was an exceptional opportunity for me, and Century Ranch has been an absolute dream to deal with. They have been very flexible with me regarding terms of the contract and I am very happy with my foal. So happy in fact, that I'm in the process of buying the next inutero as well. Great experience!
    Proud Momma:

    Imax - Fresstyle x Juventus x Rubinstein
    2014 - Sister to IMAX (hopefully)


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    EllenAspen is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Default

    Thank you, Amoroso...glad you had a good experience!



  4. #4
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    Mar. 13, 2013
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    I've sold several in utero foals in the past, and have someone seriously interested in one for 2014.
    From the seller's standpoint, you will want to lay everything out very clearly in the contract. I just revised mine to make it even more specific, because the potential client raised some questions before I sent the contract out that I realized were not specified in writing as clearly as they should be. For example, what are the buyer's options if the mare does not deliver a live foal? Will the receive a refund if they paid a deposit? What if they want a filly specifically and the mare has a colt (or vice versa)? Who is responsible for payment of routine vet and farrier care while the foal is on the dam? What if the foal is injured; who is responsible for the vet bill? What does the purchase price include (registration, DNA testing, etc.)? Does it include hauling? Lots of questions! :-)

    Since my 2014 foals are out of my stallion, I want to be able to show them at our National Futurity, so I added a clause stating that the buyer would allow mw to show the weanling (free of charge), and that she would not take possession of him/her until after the futurity. (She receives any money won as the owner.)

    I'd be happy to send you a copy of my purchase agreement if you PM me with your email. You can also do a search, as I know some people have posted links to some of their contracts too.

    It can be a great experience all around if it goes well. I give a discount for inutero purchases, and the buyers get a lot of incentives that make it worth their while. Good luck!
    Last edited by New Horizons; Sep. 24, 2013 at 04:23 PM. Reason: spelling error
    Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
    Standing Stellar TVR, lifetime licensed with WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
    www.newhorizonshaflingers.com
    www.facebook.com/NewHorizonsHaflingers


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  5. #5
    EllenAspen is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizons View Post

    I'd be happy to send you a copy of my purchase agreement if you PM me with your email. You can also do a search, as I know some people have posted links to some of their contracts too.

    It can be a great experience all around if it goes well. I give a discount for inutero purchases, and the buyers get a lot of incentives that make it worth their while. Good luck!
    Thank you...just sent PM



  6. #6
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    Mar. 13, 2013
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    Michigan
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    You are welcome! :-) I'll send it tomorrow as I need to get to a computer to do so.

    Sorry for the typos above. It is tough catching them all when posting from my phone.
    Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
    Standing Stellar TVR, lifetime licensed with WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
    www.newhorizonshaflingers.com
    www.facebook.com/NewHorizonsHaflingers



  7. #7
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    Well...here is a tale of an in-Utero sale gone awry:

    I put $10,000 down on a Sir Donnerhall X Hohenstein foal. The lovely Hohenstein mare proceeded to not get in foal TWICE. We switched gears to Dancier. No go. The poor breeder lost so much money trying to get that mare in foal for me. I got my deposit back and she got the mare in foal at the 11th hour using fresh semen from a stallion who was going to throw a HUGE baby. (she offered the foal to me but I am 5' tall so I declined)

    So, it's not only the buyer who has to be careful, but the breeder! I am fortunate that the breeder I dealt with was so honest...I feel badly that she lost more money than she would have if she didn't have the contract to deal with.

    In this case, the breeder probably would have tried fresh semen a few cycles earlier had she not been trying to honor my in-utero contract.

    Just another thing to think about!


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  8. #8
    EllenAspen is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by arlosmine View Post
    Well...here is a tale of an in-Utero sale gone awry:

    I put $10,000 down on a Sir Donnerhall X Hohenstein foal. The lovely Hohenstein mare proceeded to not get in foal TWICE. We switched gears to Dancier. No go. The poor breeder lost so much money trying to get that mare in foal for me. I got my deposit back and she got the mare in foal at the 11th hour using fresh semen from a stallion who was going to throw a HUGE baby. (she offered the foal to me but I am 5' tall so I declined)

    So, it's not only the buyer who has to be careful, but the breeder! I am fortunate that the breeder I dealt with was so honest...I feel badly that she lost more money than she would have if she didn't have the contract to deal with.

    In this case, the breeder probably would have tried fresh semen a few cycles earlier had she not been trying to honor my in-utero contract.

    Just another thing to think about!
    Thanks, arlosmine...this is a little different situation. This mare is already in foal and the buyer already knows the stallion and the mare. She is buying that combination.



  9. #9
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    Default

    From the sellers point if view, at what time/point in the mares pregnancy would you feel comfortable offering the in-utero sale?
    I am a first time breeder, and I plan on offering the foal for sale. When I was in the initial stages of panning, I was strongly considering offering the baby in-utero. But now that my mare is bred (about 130 days) I haven't been thinking at all about offering the in-utero option! I guess my thinking is there are so many things that can go wrong? or that what if the baby is a real looker/mover and I sell myself short?

    for those breeders that do sell in-utero when did you know that you were ready to do so? (Sorry if this is ot)



  10. #10

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    Ellen, feel free to call me...I've done several and have a pretty good contract
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire)
    KWPN, ISR/Old NA, RPSI, and IHF stallion
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com


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  11. #11
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    HorseCrazy, I advertise the inutero sales that are available once I have a pregnancy confirmed. I think if you do the 60 day preg check and all is good, that you are fine moving forward. It all depends on what you are comfortable with doing, and how you lay out your contract.

    You are right though about possibly selling yourself short. I offer my inutero foals at a significant discount, which works out great for the buyer, but not so great for me if it turns out to be extra special and worth lots more (or so special that I want to keep it). It definitely is a risk on the part of both buyer and seller, but has its advantages as well.
    Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
    Standing Stellar TVR, lifetime licensed with WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
    www.newhorizonshaflingers.com
    www.facebook.com/NewHorizonsHaflingers


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Oct. 3, 2009
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    Default

    I have trouble understanding in utero sales, I mean you just don't know what the foal is going to be like! Could be exceptional, could be a dud, colour, gender, these are all things I care about when I'm buying a foal ... and there are so many variables!

    But I suppose if both sides are happy with the associated risks then it's fine, I just personally wouldn't ever want to do it.


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  13. #13
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    Default

    In-utero sales are not for people (generally speaking) who care about color or sex of the foal, with the exception of some sellers who do offer gender-specific contracts. I have found with my in-utero sales (and I've had quite a few) that the people who buy are generally looking for a particular pedigree, or want to have the first chance at a foal from a specific mare.
    I offer the in-uteros for sale once a pregnancy is established at 30+ days. The previous poster who mentioned putting the money down before breeding is describing what I would think of as a "custom foal" more than a standard in-utero contract. The custom foal contracts, I've found, are even more fraught with risks and complications and I don't do them for that reason (among others).
    To the OP: you need a very good, detailed and comprehensive contract. It needs to cover everything from payment terms and timeline, to what the buyer receives (live foal guarantee?, healthy foal guarantee? ) to what happens if the foal dies or has something wrong with it, to what expenses are included and what the buyer is responsible for after foaling until weaning, when weaning will take place, what the time-frame for shipping after weaning is, what you will provide (vaccines? dewormer? hoof care?) to who is responsible if the foal is injured after payment is received but before it leaves your place, who covers inspection/registration costs, etc. etc. Anything and everything that you can think of needs to be in there!
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    EllenAspen is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside H Ranch View Post
    To the OP: you need a very good, detailed and comprehensive contract. It needs to cover everything from payment terms and timeline, to what the buyer receives (live foal guarantee?, healthy foal guarantee? ) to what happens if the foal dies or has something wrong with it, to what expenses are included and what the buyer is responsible for after foaling until weaning, when weaning will take place, what the time-frame for shipping after weaning is, what you will provide (vaccines? dewormer? hoof care?) to who is responsible if the foal is injured after payment is received but before it leaves your place, who covers inspection/registration costs, etc. etc. Anything and everything that you can think of needs to be in there!
    Thank you...very helpful!


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  15. #15
    EllenAspen is offline Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsechick View Post
    Ellen, feel free to call me...I've done several and have a pretty good contract
    I will call you later today, Ahna. BTW...it is the AmazingXDanka foal they are interested



  16. #16
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    For those who have sold foals with an in-utero contract, what do you do as far as vet care after foaling? Who is responsible for the baby check, IgG test? What do you do about such common problems as angular limb deformity? Although they usually resolve, they often require more frequent farrier work, or vet care.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



  17. #17
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    We do many custom foals for clients, feel free to have a look at our contract:

    http://www.premiumwarmbloods.com/foals.htm

    Best of luck!
    Specializing in Custom Warmblood Foals - www.premiumwarmbloods.com

    Visit Our Facebook Page!



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by clint View Post
    For those who have sold foals with an in-utero contract, what do you do as far as vet care after foaling? Who is responsible for the baby check, IgG test? What do you do about such common problems as angular limb deformity? Although they usually resolve, they often require more frequent farrier work, or vet care.
    For me, the well-foal check, w/an IgG is something that I as the seller take care of. My contract actually guarantees a live, healthy foal and that includes the foal having an IgG >800. I do an IgG test/exam on all foals, whether or not they are for sale/sold in-utero and for me that is the standard of care, so I wouldn't want to be in a position where a buyer didn't want to pay for it, so the foal went without. For the sake of keeping things simple I cover "routine" health costs until weaning (that's deworming, farrier, etc). I also cover the cost of registration/inspection, etc. Those are things I would be responsible for in my non in-utero sales, so I just figure those things into the cost of the in-utero sales, as well. As far as angular limb deformities, I thankfully haven't had that happen, but it would be up to the owner. If the foal is born with anything abnormal (hernia, entropion, angular limb issues, heart issues, eye issues, low IgG, etc) then it is up to them on whether they want to proceed with the purchase. If not, the deposit is sent back and the contract is null and void. If they want to take on whatever issues is present then that is fine, but it is at their expense.
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com


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  19. #19
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    Thanks Hillside H, that is very helpful.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



  20. #20
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    I do the same as Hillside Ranch. I'm responsible for routine care after foal is born through weaning. But, it is up to buyer to carry insurance on the foal, as they are responsible if the foal were to become injured/sick, etc.
    Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
    Standing Stellar TVR, lifetime licensed with WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
    www.newhorizonshaflingers.com
    www.facebook.com/NewHorizonsHaflingers


    1 members found this post helpful.

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