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  1. #61
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    After looking at the photo of the carriage horses in the daily news - question- why are all 3 horses standing with their front end up on the curb and their backend on the roadbed? What's the reason?



  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    After looking at the photo of the carriage horses in the daily news - question- why are all 3 horses standing with their front end up on the curb and their backend on the roadbed? What's the reason?
    I am thinking somebody mentioned it like a hundred threads ago:

    Should the unthinkable happen and a parked carriage is rear ended, the vehicle and horse are shoved up the sidewalk instead of into the carriage in front.

    Looks weird but makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    After looking at the photo of the carriage horses in the daily news - question- why are all 3 horses standing with their front end up on the curb and their backend on the roadbed? What's the reason?
    Thanx for asking, pezk. When I started in the biz in 1981, most of the old timers frowned on the horses stepping up on the sidewalk, they didn't see it as 'proper', and would put the horse back down anytime one of them would try it (they can also knock the rubber off the front wheel if they are too close to the curb when they climb up, and that is a PITA) The reason they would try it was as a signal they wanted to eat; we keep buckets of grain under the carriage, and the horses will turn around and eventually climb up on the sidewalk, fussing to be fed. They also did the same when they heard the carrot bag crinkling. A bunch of us young people entered the biz at the same time in the 80s, and we liked our horses up on the sidewalk; we found the passersby liked it as well, as did prospective customers, so we didn't discourage it.

    In the mid 80s, an elderly woman named Mrs. Allen became our first "carrot lady"; someone who just loved our horses and would come down everyday to feed each one a carrot. All of the horses started to be able to recognize her at 30 paces LOL, and they would all get up on the sidewalk to wait for their carrot.

    Since the 80s, it has just developed into an accepted thing that some horses prefer to stand on the sidewalk. Also, some drivers have trained the horses to know that when they park and put their front feet on the sidewalk, that they are to stay there, and not move up automatically as many of them do when the line moves up.

    But there are some horses that refuse to stand on the sidewalk; my STB George hated it, would never do it. But most of them either don't mind, or like to.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I am thinking somebody mentioned it like a hundred threads ago:

    Should the unthinkable happen and a parked carriage is rear ended, the vehicle and horse are shoved up the sidewalk instead of into the carriage in front.

    Looks weird but makes sense.
    Well, that is just a nice by-product of the situation, but not the reason
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    Well, that is just a nice by-product of the situation, but not the reason
    We'll take it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    This particular issue sounds beyond stupid to me. Why not just move the horse forward five feet? Seriously? Simply remove this issue as a point of argument.

    I think carriages in New York seem charming. I do. But from some of the things I have read on this forum from the pro carriage side, I am starting to question that. Why are you fighting over something this dumb? Why would you not go out of your way to make such a simple change to improve public relations and improve your public image? It's a smaaaaaall thing to just inch the horse forward. Just a few feet. Really. And if you don't, and if that rare instance occurs and the horse is hit with an exploding manhole cover, then what? Was it worth it to not just... move... the horse... forward... a little... bit.
    Nobody has a problem with it except the RARAs - and they do not count when it comes to complaints, they got a million of 'em, all designed to crush the breath out of us. (And manholes are far from their biggest complaint)I am surprised and disappointed it even became an issue on this thread, when the topic was private property rights and jail time proposals for selling your horse to the 'wrong' person.

    We have a limited number of spots assigned to us by the city, with manholes sprinkled throughout; every carriage line is designated by DOT signage. We have 68 carriages and spots for about 50 carriages, so you can imagine that we would be loathe to give up any of the ones we have, especially one right in the middle of the "five-line" the most prime spot in the city for us.

    The manholes are a non-issue. Cannot understand how that topic could make you question whether or not we are "charming"?
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    Then it'll be something else.

    A horse licked the water off the cover of a trash can and the howling about it went on for days.
    Exactly. It's a time-worn strategy; just keep hop-scotching from one complaint to the other, constantly moving the goal-posts, and try to get your target to capitulate and appease at every turn.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    some drivers have trained the horses to know that when they park and put their front feet on the sidewalk, that they are to stay there, and not move up automatically as many of them do when the line moves up.
    So it is like a rider that teaches their horse to "ground tie" and not move from that spot.
    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
    Bernard M. Baruch


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  9. #69
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    In all my life growing up in NYC, I never not once heard of or let alone saw a manhole cover explode. You can't move in NYC without coming across a manhole cover or subway vent. Everything is under the streets in NYC! I would think by chance, if one were to blow, a pedistrian or car is far more likely to be on the recieving end as there of hundreds of thousands more of them, then horses & carriages! Worrying about this is as stupid as wanting helmets for leadline pony rides in a zoo! Good grief!


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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenfox1 View Post
    In all my life growing up in NYC, I never not once heard of or let alone saw a manhole cover explode. You can't move in NYC without coming across a manhole cover or subway vent. Everything is under the streets in NYC! I would think by chance, if one were to blow, a pedistrian or car is far more likely to be on the recieving end as there of hundreds of thousands more of them, then horses & carriages! Worrying about this is as stupid as wanting helmets for leadline pony rides in a zoo! Good grief!
    You mean wanting any kid under 18 to wear a helmet when on horseback based on a not enforced NYS Law that requires same?

    Thanks for making my point for me... there are lots and lots of laws out there, that never ever get enforced. Good Grief indeed.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    You mean wanting any kid under 18 to wear a helmet when on horseback based on a not enforced NYS Law that requires same?

    Thanks for making my point for me... there are lots and lots of laws out there, that never ever get enforced. Good Grief indeed.
    No, not 'on horse back' but on a pony ride.
    big difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenfox1 View Post
    In all my life growing up in NYC, I never not once heard of or let alone saw a manhole cover explode. You can't move in NYC without coming across a manhole cover or subway vent. Everything is under the streets in NYC! I would think by chance, if one were to blow, a pedistrian or car is far more likely to be on the recieving end as there of hundreds of thousands more of them, then horses & carriages! Worrying about this is as stupid as wanting helmets for leadline pony rides in a zoo! Good grief!
    I had never heard of them before either. Who knew?

    Looks like winter weather is a factor. Interesting article about manhole covers and other problems from the winter of 2011. In the month from Jan 1st to when the article was printed on Feb 4th, there were "65 manhole incidents":
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...71374I20110204
    ...Consolidated Edison, which supplies power to the five boroughs of New York City and Westchester, pointed to a mix of salt, spread on the roads during storms, and melting snow or ice as the culprit. When salty water contacts a corroded cable or underground utility box, fire or explosion can result.

    "It's a seasonal issue," said spokesman Chris Olert, noting corrosive salty water seeps to the lowest point underground, where power equipment is often located. "Manholes are like utility closets for our crews who work on equipment."

    The utility giant said there have been 65 manhole incidents since January 1...


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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    No, not 'on horse back' but on a pony ride.
    big difference.
    Thank you for spelling it out!



  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    I had never heard of them before either. Who knew?

    ]
    LOL! I never feared the manhole covers, just the pidgeons!


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenfox1 View Post
    Thank you for spelling it out!
    Except ponies are included in the helmet law.



  16. #76
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    Maybe those of you inclined to offer suggestions would be interested in seeing a glimpse into what the industry is really up against:

    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...GS04/130929970
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Except ponies are included in the helmet law.
    I read some article that it possibly did not cover persons riding on private property anyone know anything about that ?

    Editing found the article its fairly recent and says

    "The law has only been enforced on roads open to public traffic and will not likely affect children riding at private stables, horse shows or on most trails."

    http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-ne...elmet-law.aspx

    Sorry not trying to hijack just was unsure about context of how the law was written vs interpreted.

    This article also points out that the amendment only applies to horses ridden on public roads
    " the statute only applies to riding horses upon highways and public roads open to public motor vehicle traffic and would not apply to "off road" events such as rodeos or horse shows in arenas."

    So if that is the case events such as pony rides unless they took place on a public road , the law would not apply to them.

    http://www.esqha.org/helmet_law.htm
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    I read some article that it possibly did not cover persons riding on private property anyone know anything about that ?

    Editing found the article its fairly recent and says

    "The law has only been enforced on roads open to public traffic and will not likely affect children riding at private stables, horse shows or on most trails."

    http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-ne...elmet-law.aspx

    Sorry not trying to hijack just was unsure about context of how the law was written vs interpreted.

    This article also points out that the amendment only applies to horses ridden on public roads
    " the statute only applies to riding horses upon highways and public roads open to public motor vehicle traffic and would not apply to "off road" events such as rodeos or horse shows in arenas."

    So if that is the case events such as pony rides unless they took place on a public road , the law would not apply to them.

    http://www.esqha.org/helmet_law.htm
    I believe you just proved Angela's point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    You mean wanting any kid under 18 to wear a helmet when on horseback based on a not enforced NYS Law that requires same?

    Thanks for making my point for me... there are lots and lots of laws out there, that never ever get enforced. Good Grief indeed.



  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I believe you just proved Angela's point.
    How does that prove her point when the law states it doesn't apply to anything other then public road ways and schooling establishments.

    It isn't saying the law isn't enforced its saying it only applys. Those are different don't you think ?

    Although I do like how they handle their summons and fines if there is one written.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    Maybe those of you inclined to offer suggestions would be interested in seeing a glimpse into what the industry is really up against:

    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...GS04/130929970

    Interesting that they are unsure where NYCLASS got all its donation money from.

    Perhaps NYCLASS isn't being upfront with all their panhandling done under the guise of the "electric cars" and "save the horses" and is funneling that money to be used for campaign funds.

    The most interesting and not spoken or connected fact is that it does report that NYCLASS's one 5k donation came from NYC is not for sale ...Which was FOUNDED BY STEVE NISLICK ...you know THE SAME GUY WHO FOUNDED NYCLASS and his animal activist buddy Wendy Neu.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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