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  1. #1
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    Default Why Are Some Prominent Hr/Jr Riders Supporting a Radical Animal Rights Organization?

    NYCLASS, a group backed by Peta and a real estate developer, wants to abolish the NYC carriage horse industry. The developer wants the stables currently housing the horses to build parking garages. NYCLASS puts out a list of prominent equestrians, including eventers, who support it. I suspect that many of these people are unaware they are on this list. The radical animal rights activists (RARAs) want to get rid of all horse sports, and eventing is certainly high on the list. If anyone on this list posts here, or if you know them, can they explain why they support his organization? FYI, here is the response given by Edita Birkrant, RARA and head of NYC Friends of Animals, on the death of the jumper Hickstead in 2011:
    Edita Birnkrant How grotesque. A show-jumping horse is not an “athlete,” but merely a slave who has no consent in being bred & treated as a commodity by his masters who will work him until his death.
    2 hours ago · Like
    Edita Birnkrant Tara, we have no way of knowing that he “loved” his existence as a horse-jumping slave, but odds are what he liked or disliked what completely irrelevant to his owners, right up until the very moment he died in agony on the ground.

    Here's the list of supporters as per NYCLASS:

    Georgina Bloomberg, Equestrienne
    Shanette Barth Cohen, Hampton Classic Horse Show, Inc.
    Chris DeRose, President & Founder, Last Chance for Animals
    R Scot Evans, Equine Public Relations Consultant, Commentator
    Jane Hoffman, President, Mayor's Alliance for NYC's Animals
    Joe Fargis, 2-time Olympian, American Show Jumping Champion
    Michael Godfrey, Former U.S. Equestrian Team, Leading Breeder
    Brianne Goutal, 2005 ASPCA Maclay National Champion
    John G. Hynes, D.V.M., P.C. Veterinarian., HSVMA Member
    Linda Lloyd Lambert, ASPCA Board Member
    Wendy Lewis, Professional Trainer, Top U.S. Event Rider
    Francesca Laurita D'Annunzio, Therapeutic Riding Instructor & Animal Welfare Advocate
    Elizabeth "Beezie" Madden, Olympic Equestrian Gold Medalist
    John Madden, Olympic Horse Trainer; Owner, John Madden Sales
    Linda Marcus, Equestrian
    Anna McKnight, Professional Equestrian
    Doug Payne, Professional Equestrian, Founder-DP Equestrian LLP
    Marilyn Payne, "S" Dressage Judge; 2008 Olympic Judge
    John Phillips, Vote Humane
    Morgan Rowsell, Leading Event Course Designer
    Virginia Jenkins Rowsell, Top Event Rider in United States, Professional Trainer
    Ed Sayres, President and CEO, ASPCA
    Sloan von Spiessbach, Equestrienne & Animal Welfare Advocate
    Eva Usadi, EAGALA Certified Equine Assisted


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    Default

    Why don't you ask them?

    Several of those people are pretty easy to find via Google.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    May. 11, 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    Why don't you ask them?

    Several of those people are pretty easy to find via Google.
    I guess because it doesn't have the same panache as listing all the names on a public bulletin board


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by comingback View Post
    I guess because it doesn't have the same panache as listing all the names on a public bulletin board
    All of the names are already listed in public on the NYCLASS supporters page.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Dec. 12, 2009
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    Default

    A simple Google search shows me that Georgina's press contact info is listed on her official fan page. Perhaps you should send an email to her. I'm sure some of the other people on that list might respond too.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Default

    The purpose of the H/J forum is not to encourage us to personally contact well known horse folk over political views they have every right to hold regardless of others who may agree with them on that one opinion and nothing else.

    This belongs on Off Course with the other trainwrecks that get turned into AR debates- check OPs posting history.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    All of the names are already listed in public on the NYCLASS supporters page.
    Then why not ask the people listed?

    Facebook, Google, USEF, etc. It would probably take less than ten minutes to find contact information for at least half of them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Default

    So now hunter/jumper people are the enemy....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    Default

    Several on that list have EASILY available contact info. Ask them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Default

    I just listened to Buck Brannaman's book, The Faraway Horses. He specifically addresses carriage horses and is so level headed about it. He says they have a great life, they get loved on my the public, are well taken care of, etc.

    It's too bad people with no understanding of horses are going to decide their fate.







    *I personally think any animal lover that supports PETA, HSUS, Farm Sanctuary, etc. is on the ignorant side of things.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    13 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=RugBug;7177651]I personally think any animal lover that supports PETA, HSUS, Farm Sanctuary, etc. is on the ignorant side of things."

    Actually, the pro-carriage posters make the claim that anyone who disagrees with their cause is a "radical animal rights supporter" that is their tactic to respond to anyone who disagrees with them. The NYCLASS is a single issue organization not PETA, HSUS or any other organization and is opposed to carriage horses in New York City. It is incorrect to assume that supporters of NYCLASS are radical animal rights supporters, although the pro-carriage posters will always make that claim as they do here on COTH to anyone who questions their agenda.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    CA
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    [QUOTE=stolen virtue;7177703]
    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    I personally think any animal lover that supports PETA, HSUS, Farm Sanctuary, etc. is on the ignorant side of things."

    Actually, the pro-carriage posters make the claim that anyone who disagrees with their cause is a "radical animal rights supporter" that is their tactic to respond to anyone who disagrees with them. The NYCLASS is a single issue organization not PETA, HSUS or any other organization and is opposed to carriage horses in New York City. It is incorrect to assume that supporters of NYCLASS are radical animal rights supporters, although the pro-carriage posters will always make that claim as they do here on COTH to anyone who questions their agenda.
    My statement was an aside. A venting if you will. I have friends how claim to be animal lovers and they support the organizations I mentioned. I think they are pretty ignorant to the goals of the organization...but I can't tell them so because it would probably ruin our friendship...so I just vented here.

    I also think people that are against carriage horses are probably pretty ignorant of horses in general...although that list would beg to differ. I'm super suprised to see Joe Fargis on there. In general, I think the majority of supporters are like the people who think fly masks are blindfolds. They have no real understanding but are taking a stand.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    9 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    I just listened to Buck Brannaman's book, The Faraway Horses. He specifically addresses carriage horses and is so level headed about it. He says they have a great life, they get loved on my the public, are well taken care of, etc.

    It's too bad people with no understanding of horses are going to decide their fate.







    *I personally think any animal lover that supports PETA, HSUS, Farm Sanctuary, etc. is on the ignorant side of things.
    But I think OP's point is that clearly a lot of those people DO understand horses and so it surprises me to see some of those name on that list, but I am very sure they have much better things than reply to an email and justify their position to some anon on a board. That being said, I would be interested to hear such a justification as I have yet to hear a truly knowledgeable horse person speak against the carriage horses and obviously some of those people on the list are amongst the most knowledgeable on our sport.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    It is a New York City issue-not all carriage horses. Your should actually read the issue and not assume...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    It is a New York City issue-not all carriage horses. Your should actually read the issue and not assume...
    Um, BB was addressing NY carriage horses. Maybe YOU should read his book before making assumptions
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    Um, BB was addressing NY carriage horses. Maybe YOU should read his book before making assumptions
    Oh, that's right BB has all of the answers to any horse issue, he is the authority...
    It is a local issue regardless of what your "expert" has to say.
    Last edited by stolen virtue; Sep. 19, 2013 at 12:48 AM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Oh, that's right BB has all of the answers to any horse issue, he is the authority...
    It is a local issue regardless of what your "expert" has to say.
    Firstly I have to apologize on behalf of SV. She can't help herself and finds it necessary to interject on EVERY thread about carriage horses in a negative fashion. As you can see from her dismissal of BB's opinion on the validity of carriage horses her blind contempt stands in the way of logic.

    BB has addressed carriage horses in-particular the NYC horses multiple times always lending his support. Here is the direct quote from his book.

    "Next on my schedule were a couple of young women from MTV and Rolling Stone magazine. One of them asked, “What about those poor horses in Central Park? Don’t you think it’s awful how they have to pull those heavy carriages all day?”I had an answer for that question “No, I don’t,” I said, then explained that the Central Park horses are content. Pulling carriages on rubber-rimmed wheels on paved streets is a low-stress job, and the horses are calm and relaxed, not anxiously laying their ears back or wringing their tails. Plus, these horses get lots of attention and affection from passerby. And horses love attention and affection as much as we do.
    The horses that people should be concerned about are the neglected ones that, after the “newness” of ownership wears off, live in box stalls all day. These horses have no purpose, no jobs to do. All they do is eat and make manure. Even prisoners get to exercise more than these horses, and the horses have never done anything wrong. If they had the choice, these horses would choose to be carriage horses rather than stand in their stalls.
    Buck Brannaman, The Faraway Horses, page 251."
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    I think it's perfectly fine to ask why people who make a living riding and showing horses support an organization that believes their riding is abusive and should be abolished.

    My guess is that they believe that horses pulling carriages in city streets is more cruel than show jumping. I also suspect they are not aware that their organization is also against show jumping.

    I'm not going to say that every single carriage horse is the best treated most happiest horse out there OR that every show jumper is the same, there are bad people everywhere.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    OP - what is known about the connection of NYCLASS and PETA ?

    I can't speak for any of the named riders, but I think it's easy to get sucked into lending support to "help the poor horses" campaigns. EVERYONE should really do their research about these organizations and especially if they give money, what is it actually used for.

    Even ASPCA works with HSUS to sponsor pretty aggressive animal rights legislation. Every time they ask me for money, I write a note back saying not until they get away from HSUS and sponsoring legislation.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    My guess is that they believe that horses pulling carriages in city streets is more cruel than show jumping. I also suspect they are not aware that their organization is also against show jumping.
    I think a tangential approach to the OP's question is "What/how are you teaching your students, that so many successful H/J folks are against carriage driving?" What are you teaching them, directly or indirectly, that makes many people see alternate uses as cruel? Are you educating your students about the reality that many organizations really are trying to do away with horse sports?

    Given the number of prominent H/J riders on that list, I think it is a question pertinent to this part of the forum and not Off Course. That's not to say that the OP hasn't started/contributed several train wrecks.


    7 members found this post helpful.

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