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  1. #21
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    I wish people would stop posting this horrible stuff. I am not going to read about it nor look at it because I have a hard enough time as it is trying to stay optimistic and staying asleep at night.
    "When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters, one represents danger, the other represents opportunity."

    John F Kennedy


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  2. #22
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    I did a you tube search too. Not that I want to see this kind of stuff, but I always like to see these things for myself the best I can before passing judgment and commenting. I saw videos like PhoenixFarm mentioned where a bunch of guys are crowded into the arena after the bull. But I also saw videos of a different version maybe? But it involved one person on horseback trying to drop a blanket over the bulls head. It looks like in this version, there is a very good chance the horse will get gored in the stomach just by the way the rider attempts to blanket the bull. In my mind, it might not be the goal of the sport to eviscerate the horse, but I don't think the riders are trying to avoid it either.

    There was also a series of videos called the "The bull that killed 100 horses". I watched about 2 minutes of it, and the bull was definitely aiming at the horses. He looked as if he had learned how to take them out and he was very efficient at it, picking one horse completely up off the ground with his head, horns buried in the horses stomach.. The video narrator says that gorings are not uncommon, and when the fame of this bull spread, the public would pay double the price to watch the bull in action. In other words, paying to see horses eviscerated. Only a step above intentionally eviscerating them in my book. So even though eviscerating horses is not the goal, it is apparent that the riders and public don't give a crap about the horses and they appear completely disposable.

    And since I will be called a RARA for feeling this way, I am going to post a link to the video. Only for those people that want to find some way to actually justify this event for any reason whatsoever, please watch the video and tell me there is nothing wrong with this and us "RARAs" are just over-reacting.

    http://youtu.be/WI3nl6OAZOk

    Since it is another country, my guess is there is little we can do from here. Especially when the general public in the country will pay double to see horses eviscerated.

    Edited to add, that when they did finally decide that enough horses had died, they publically strangled the bull. Yeah, that makes it all better, torture that animal too.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    As Lynnwood wrote...nothing surprises me anymore in some places given the lack of value placed on human life. Am I disgusted, absolutely...and doubly so since there is little to nothing I can do about it. We were in Honduras the first of August (San Pedro Sula & Pena Blanca) and folks with us asked it if bothered me how poorly the horses were kept. Duh...and while nothing justifies it, it bothered me more to see how families lived in "houses" (shacks made from discarded whatever) smaller than my horses' stalls, suffered from malnutrition, corrupt government, crime (highest murder rate in the world in SPS), etc. I will say that in Honduras, most of the folks with horses seemed to be doing their best to care for them...they had value as working animals.


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  4. #24
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    I've seen the videos, this isn't bull fughting its a clusterf*ck of stupidity!

    WARNING: do not proceed unless you can handle some serious gore. Otherwise, skip to 3:00.
    http://youtu.be/TLM2Dw4G76Q
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    I wish people would stop posting this horrible stuff. I am not going to read about it nor look at it because I have a hard enough time as it is trying to stay optimistic and staying asleep at night.
    I guess we should just ignore it and hope it goes away? How often is that effective?
    *CrowneDragon*
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGoose View Post
    I did a you tube search too. Not that I want to see this kind of stuff, but I always like to see these things for myself the best I can before passing judgment and commenting. I saw videos like PhoenixFarm mentioned where a bunch of guys are crowded into the arena after the bull. But I also saw videos of a different version maybe? But it involved one person on horseback trying to drop a blanket over the bulls head. It looks like in this version, there is a very good chance the horse will get gored in the stomach just by the way the rider attempts to blanket the bull. In my mind, it might not be the goal of the sport to eviscerate the horse, but I don't think the riders are trying to avoid it either.

    There was also a series of videos called the "The bull that killed 100 horses". I watched about 2 minutes of it, and the bull was definitely aiming at the horses. He looked as if he had learned how to take them out and he was very efficient at it, picking one horse completely up off the ground with his head, horns buried in the horses stomach.. The video narrator says that gorings are not uncommon, and when the fame of this bull spread, the public would pay double the price to watch the bull in action. In other words, paying to see horses eviscerated. Only a step above intentionally eviscerating them in my book. So even though eviscerating horses is not the goal, it is apparent that the riders and public don't give a crap about the horses and they appear completely disposable.

    And since I will be called a RARA for feeling this way, I am going to post a link to the video. Only for those people that want to find some way to actually justify this event for any reason whatsoever, please watch the video and tell me there is nothing wrong with this and us "RARAs" are just over-reacting.

    http://youtu.be/WI3nl6OAZOk

    Since it is another country, my guess is there is little we can do from here. Especially when the general public in the country will pay double to see horses eviscerated.

    Edited to add, that when they did finally decide that enough horses had died, they publically strangled the bull. Yeah, that makes it all better, torture that animal too.
    That video... just... i have no words...
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  7. #27
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    Some cultural context. In many countries of both East and West, from the earliest days of civilization on, contests of man vs. beast were staged as, basically, fertility rituals. The most fit, virile young lads of the land had to step up in a public venue and prove their fitness via physical courage for the hand of the fairest maiden, who was usually in the audience. There was often a religious component--he must prove his worth before the gods. The outcome verified to the onlookers that this young male was the best of the best, and was usually on the fast track to become the new village leader. Back in those days, there were probably actual, practical reasons that made this form of "natural selection" some sort of a "good idea." The Bull himself, an iconic symbol of male virility, was then enjoyed by the entire village as a sacrificial feast with the Gods present. These are common threads in many cultures of the ancient world.

    Since the advent of modern times, of course it's more about money and the inevitable advertising revenue, and the original meaning of the blood-sacrifice ritual of courage in the face of death has been lost. These spectacles have outlived their original intent and meaning in our times, so we are inevitably looking at them as barbaric and unconscionable animal cruelty. I have a Mexican family who love animals, including horses, working for me and cannot imagine the horror they would express upon seeing this. Best not to paint all members of a culture with a broad brush--as usual, follow the money.

    Given that today the most likely male to see early genetic success is one who can make reservations at a good restaurant via Iphone, it's probably not necessary to fight a bull any more . . .

    My mother warned me when I was a kid that the Mexican and Spanish bullfights frequently resulted in "old, used-up" horses used by the picadors getting gored, and that that was very tough and sad to watch. Nothing new with this at all.

    However, if you want to watch one of the most dazzling displays of the practical applications of truly classical dressage, watch a Portuguese bullfight where the most spectacular Lusitano stallions in the land prove their mettle by literally dancing a potentially lethal pas de deux with the bull--it is the transcendent level of horsemanship and a window into the vanished equestrian world!


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post

    However, if you want to watch one of the most dazzling displays of the practical applications of truly classical dressage, watch a Portuguese bullfight where the most spectacular Lusitano stallions in the land prove their mettle by literally dancing a potentially lethal pas de deux with the bull--it is the transcendent level of horsemanship and a window into the vanished equestrian world!
    It's not so "dazzling" when the "potentially lethal pas de deux" fulfills its "potential" and the horse loses. Not dazzling at all...


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  9. #29
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    Mar. 11, 2012
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    So tired of the "suffering" for tradition mentality. If we can't progress as a race then it is a sad, sad commentary on human nature.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Save us the history lesson, Lady E. These Mexican cowboys are willing participants in this gorefest. The horses aren't and they pay a terrible price. And sometimes the young men are killed or maimed, too.

    The bull's end by strangulation was horrible, too. He was bred to be aggressive -- too bad he didn't meet his end in a bullfighting ring. These kinds of blood sport displays human nature at its primitive worst.


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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    It's not so "dazzling" when the "potentially lethal pas de deux" fulfills its "potential" and the horse loses. Not dazzling at all...
    The purpose of the "pas de deux" is not for the horse to loose. Truly skilled riders know how to put on show and keep their mounts safe.Unfortunately, making the bull bleed is also part of the show.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  12. #32
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    I've seen an evisceration first hand - I caught the intestines in my hand. I have no wish to see it again on a video.
    Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.



  13. #33
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    bullfights are disgusting. The bulls AND the horses are both victims and suffer horribly.
    Can't people watch simulations in movies instead these days instead of inflicting cruelty on innocent animals?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    I don't see enjoyment on the peoples faces. I think the horse got injured and now someone decided to make more out of it then what it is/was.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Some cultural context. In many countries of both East and West, from the earliest days of civilization on, contests of man vs. beast were staged as, basically, fertility rituals. The most fit, virile young lads of the land had to step up in a public venue and prove their fitness via physical courage for the hand of the fairest maiden, who was usually in the audience. There was often a religious component--he must prove his worth before the gods. The outcome verified to the onlookers that this young male was the best of the best, and was usually on the fast track to become the new village leader. Back in those days, there were probably actual, practical reasons that made this form of "natural selection" some sort of a "good idea." The Bull himself, an iconic symbol of male virility, was then enjoyed by the entire village as a sacrificial feast with the Gods present. These are common threads in many cultures of the ancient world.

    Since the advent of modern times, of course it's more about money and the inevitable advertising revenue, and the original meaning of the blood-sacrifice ritual of courage in the face of death has been lost. These spectacles have outlived their original intent and meaning in our times, so we are inevitably looking at them as barbaric and unconscionable animal cruelty. I have a Mexican family who love animals, including horses, working for me and cannot imagine the horror they would express upon seeing this. Best not to paint all members of a culture with a broad brush--as usual, follow the money.

    Given that today the most likely male to see early genetic success is one who can make reservations at a good restaurant via Iphone, it's probably not necessary to fight a bull any more . . .

    My mother warned me when I was a kid that the Mexican and Spanish bullfights frequently resulted in "old, used-up" horses used by the picadors getting gored, and that that was very tough and sad to watch. Nothing new with this at all.

    However, if you want to watch one of the most dazzling displays of the practical applications of truly classical dressage, watch a Portuguese bullfight where the most spectacular Lusitano stallions in the land prove their mettle by literally dancing a potentially lethal pas de deux with the bull--it is the transcendent level of horsemanship and a window into the vanished equestrian world!
    Very well said!



  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    The purpose of the "pas de deux" is not for the horse to loose. Truly skilled riders know how to put on show and keep their mounts safe.Unfortunately, making the bull bleed is also part of the show.
    I do understand that the intention is not for the horse to "lose". However, it does happen. Potentially lethal means just that, POTENTIALLY LETHAL.



  17. #37
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    There are worlds of difference between the Spanish/Mexican and the Portuguese bullfight. It would be wise for those who don't know the differences to go and watch some of the YouTube blood-porn COTHers seem to groove on so much. At least then you'll be able to pearl-clutch more knowledgeably.

    Horses are very rarely casualties in Portugal, and the bull is not killed in the ring.

    Just like there are huge differences between British and American fox-hunting.



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Also just like above in the few videos I could stomach I saw far more people thrown to the ground , stomped on , gored , squished by the horses and a few I'm certain that did not see the sun rise.
    The difference is that the humans have a choice to be involved in the gorefest or not. The animals don't get a choice.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    There are worlds of difference between the Spanish/Mexican and the Portuguese bullfight. It would be wise for those who don't know the differences to go and watch some of the YouTube blood-porn COTHers seem to groove on so much. At least then you'll be able to pearl-clutch more knowledgeably.

    Horses are very rarely casualties in Portugal, and the bull is not killed in the ring.

    Just like there are huge differences between British and American fox-hunting.
    I, for one am well aware of the differences. Not everyone is as ignorant as you presume. I had no need to watch the "you tube" videos and so didn't.


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenfox1 View Post
    I don't see enjoyment on the peoples faces. I think the horse got injured and now someone decided to make more out of it then what it is/was.
    You didn't watch any of the posted videos apparently.


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