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  1. #41
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    I always have had my horses vaccinated for rabies yearly. It protects them from raccoons and dogs and foxes who may have rabies. And it prevents them from being quarantined.

    sorry about what happened to your stud. Vaccinate every animal, dog, cat, horse, etc., each year. (Cloudy thinks he is still a stud, and he will nip, especially nipping Hattie "his" mare.)

    The reason you don't hear about horses getting rabies or transmitting it is that most people don't have their horses tested when they die. I read many years ago in either Practical Horseman or Equus where a woman out west contracted rabies from horse saliva. And within the last year, a horse here in GA was actually tested for rabies after he died, and the results were positive. That dog or cat or coon who gets into the pasture or barn can transmit rabies to a horse. Horse gets sick, dies, and unless the brain is removed and tested, no one knows he died of rabies. And don't forget bats. Bats are often rabid.


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  2. #42
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    Nov. 8, 2012
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    Rabies vaccine is not something a dog/cat/horse can skip - no matter where they live in the United States. Cats that never go outside included - they all need to be vaccinated.

    In isolated cases where an animal is too sick to get vaccinations then that is a situation where one could skip Rabies vaccine, but for the most part any dog/cat/horse should be up to date on Rabies, including if they are older pets. It happens all too often that I see animals that are not up to date on Rabies (and Rabies must be given by a veterinarian to be valid) and someone gets bit when the animal is at a hospital, and then its a huge pain to deal with afterwards. But its just not worth the risk to not take things seriously.

    And horses and livestock may not show the typical Rabies symptoms so it can easily be overlooked - it is absolutely possible for a horse to get Rabies, even if they live in a Suburban area.


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    California bay area here - and I have seen multiple vets (not just one clinic, but I can name 4 clinics) who do not include rabies with their standard vaccination protocol (as experienced when vets come out for "shot clinics"). And while most of the boarding barns I have been to require vaccinations, rabies is not on the required list.... just an FYI for those that are aghasted by the SO predicament.
    I'm "aghasted" because it's not as if Rabies is an uncommon, treatable disease. Everyone knows what rabies is and what it does and that it kills.

    I have been utterly shocked to see barns require - require - EEE and WNV vaccines, but not rabies. Sure, require something for which the horse is a dead end host, can't infect another horse, can't infect people, but not require vaccination for something that WILL kill both horse and people if exposed and not immediately put on treatment?

    I'm sorry that I find it hard to believe that someone chooses to be so uninformed about rabies where they live, to just accept that a vet doesn't put it on the list, that a barn doesn't have it as a requirement.

    It is a CORE vaccine recommended by the AVMA. It's not on the optional list. It's that way for a reason.

    So many folks are quick to put down owners for not knowing how many scoops of what kind of feed their horse is eating, so why defend owners not vaccinating for rabies simply because barns and vets aren't requiring it?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by equusaround View Post
    Further information.

    In 2011, another stallion I own had a routine Fort Dodge 5-way and developed within 45 minutes, pulmonary hemorhage from the anaphylaxis. Luckily the vet was still there and knew how to treat a "bleeder". I managed to get my hemorhaging horse to UC Davis where he was in ICU for 10+ days, then had to return weekly, then bi-weekly and then monthly for almost 2 years for chest x-rays, biopsies, pulmonary lavages and other treatments before the allergic reaction was quelled. Luckily, it does not appear to have permanently damaged his lungs as he is a competitive event horse and dressage horse. But from that near death (he collapsed and stopped breathing 2x, had blue gums and tongue, etc) experience, I'm really leery of giving vaccines that are not absolutely necessary or required.
    It's silly to be leary of vaccinations when you gave 5 vaccines at one time, in one spot, and have NO idea if it was a specific vaccine, or the Ft Dodge adjuncts which caused the problem. That doesn't mean you just strip down to the bare bones minimum. Rabies is still a core vaccine as per the AVMA. IMVHO there ought to be a known reaction specific to the rabies vaccine - which should be given as a separate shot in a known part of the body (ie many vets will give the Rabies shot on the Right side of the neck, or the Right pec muscle). There ARE cases where a horse reacts more and more badly to the rabies vaccine itself, and those horses just don't get it any more, knowing the risk that puts him and his people in.

    But reacting to a 5 in 1 shot? Not a good reason to not vaccinate for rabies, sorry

    The county I live in DOES NOT have a high incidence of rabies. In 2012, there were 6 animals that were found to be rabid (all bats) which would be a lot if you were the one bitten by a rabid bat, but you have to consider that the county is huge
    Yes, that IS all well and good until you ARE the owner of the horse who becomes neurologic and is put down and is found to have rabies, then you and everyone and their brother get to be tracked down and treated. You hope.

    I realize this is coming across as harsh and uncaring, but hopefully it will become apparent to anyone lurking, who thought their vet always knows best, and hopefully now you, that rabies is just not something to be taken lightly and dismissed because "there were only 6 animals found" to be rabid.

    For ever 6 found, how many died without being seen as rabid? Think about that - reports are only reports and have NO accounting for every other rabies carrying animal that dies alone in the woods.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    It is a CORE vaccine recommended by the AVMA.
    And CORE for a reason! From the AAEP website:

    The AVMA defines core vaccinations as those “that protect from diseases that are endemic to a region, those with potential public health significance, required by law, virulent/highly infectious, and/or those posing a risk of severe disease. Core vaccines have clearly demonstrated efficacy and safety, and thus exhibit a high enough level of patient benefit and low enough level of risk to justify their use in the majority of patients.” The following equine vaccines meet these criteria and are identified as ‘core’ in these guidelines:
    Tetanus
    Eastern/Western Equine Encephalomyelitis
    West Nile Virus
    Rabies
    Other vaccines are considered "Risk Based" (Anthrax, Botulism, EHV, EVA, Equine Influenza, Potomac Horse Fever, Rotaviral Diarrhea and Strangles).

    You can see the AAEP guidelines here: http://www.aaep.org/vaccination_guidelines.htm

    If your vet isn't recommending rabies vaccinations for horses, then he/she is out of sync with recommendations from AMVA/AAEP. That could very possibly could put them at risk legally should one of their patients contract rabies, or even worse, transmit rabies to a human.


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  6. #46
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    That's an interesting thought - could a vet be held liable in, say, California, if they don't even suggest the rabies vaccination, and a client's horse does indeed become infected?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    That's an interesting thought - could a vet be held liable in, say, California, if they don't even suggest the rabies vaccination, and a client's horse does indeed become infected?
    If the owner were to say, "hey, my vet didn't tell me I should do that" and then decide to sue the vet, then yes, such cases have been won by clients. This is why when we reccomend any treatment or procedure (including vaccines), and an owner declines, we record it in the record, i.e. x, y and z were reccomended, owner declined. The records are time/date stamped and can't be tampered with after that (it's a computerized system). This is something that is drilled into veterinarian's heads now; if it isn't in the record, it didn't happen (so even if you reccomended it, but can't prove it, the client will probably win). Sad, but true.
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com



  8. #48
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    Yeah, I knew about the deal with going through with surgery, medications required, knowing complications could arise, etc, and recommending something that is refused, that papers get signed to protect the vet/Dr. I just wasn't sure about the opposite - not mentioning something of this nature, and having complications arise as a result of not.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #49
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    Maybe for horses, and perhaps dogs, but that's a pretty old school thought when it comes to cats. I choose to do titers on my cats due to the high incidence and unpredictable nature of vaccine associated sarcomas, and I've never had a cat found to be even close to needing any sort of booster in all of my years of pet ownership. I'm happy to meet more vets these days who are much more aware of real immunology, and not just ancient recommended vaccine schedules not based on actual titer results.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Maybe for horses, and perhaps dogs, but that's a pretty old school thought when it comes to cats. I choose to do titers on my cats due to the high incidence and unpredictable nature of vaccine associated sarcomas, and I've never had a cat found to be even close to needing any sort of booster in all of my years of pet ownership. I'm happy to meet more vets these days who are much more aware of real immunology, and not just ancient recommended vaccine schedules not based on actual titer results.
    Umm, you should look into the newest research. Titers have started to fall by the wayside with cats (and other animals) because many studies have shown that cats with high-titers can (and do) become infected with diseases that they "should" be protected against, and that cats with what we would consider to have "low titers" are protected against disease when challenged. It is still an imperfect science, and for a while checking titers seemed to be the wave of the future, but it didn't turn out to be the great thing the veterinary community had hoped for.
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com


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  11. #51
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    FL
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    A few years ago an unvaccinated horse at the Missouri State Fair became neurologic. After it died, rabies was confirmed. It was a NIGHTMARE for all parties involved (thankfully it wasn't a client of ours), as every.single.person. who had been anywhere near the horse had to be tracked down. Pretty fun, considering the barns are open to the public and on any given day at the fair you can see kids (and adults) sticking their arms into stalls trying to "pet" the horses.
    As before, your horse CAN get rabies anywhere in the US. Rabies symptoms are not always clear in horses, so MANY people may be exposed if a horse does contract the disease. It is a terrible disease and an unpleasant treatment for exposed humans.

    The solution is simple - VACCINATE.

    Like Hillside, I get a little adamant on the subject because years ago many friends had to undergo treatment after being exposed to a rabid horse that was thought at first to have some other neuro problem. It was at the local vet school and a number of vets, students, the owner, and friends of the owner were all exposed. Before that case, it was the norm here for vets to not advise that horses get rabies vaccine. Afterward, that changed. It is now the norm to vaccinate.
    Last edited by Home Again Farm; Aug. 28, 2013 at 08:03 PM.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside H Ranch View Post
    If the owner were to say, "hey, my vet didn't tell me I should do that" and then decide to sue the vet, then yes, such cases have been won by clients.
    I'm in California and have had to beg many, many different vet clinics to give my horses rabies shots. Seriously, each vet has been reluctant to provide the vaccine. I've actually had to argue and insist on it. I doubt UCD even gives rabies vaccines reqularly to their clients they see with mobile vaccine clinic.

    In the past at big barns, I've fielded tons of questions from other boarders about why I'm getting a rabies vaccine. almost as if I'm using my mare as a pin cushion! and most of the questions have been pointed and a bit condescending, so I've fibbed "it's necessary for eventing" or "she travels so much" or "it's because of the Hunt." In my head I'd be shreaking "have you seen the size of the rats/bats/raccoons/feral cats?!!" I've also had vaccine clinic vets not even have rabies on the truck and been told "you have to let us know ahead of time."

    My current vet dispenses without argument, but he probably thinks I'm a hypochondriac.

    I am so sorry you are going thru this nightmare. Can you visit your stallion everyday to make sure nothing else goes wrong at UCD?



  13. #53
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    mare - next time just say "I'd rather not be one of the 230 cases reported"
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mareslave View Post
    I'm in California and have had to beg many, many different vet clinics to give my horses rabies shots. Seriously, each vet has been reluctant to provide the vaccine. I've actually had to argue and insist on it. I doubt UCD even gives rabies vaccines reqularly to their clients they see with mobile vaccine clinic.

    In the past at big barns, I've fielded tons of questions from other boarders about why I'm getting a rabies vaccine. almost as if I'm using my mare as a pin cushion! and most of the questions have been pointed and a bit condescending, so I've fibbed "it's necessary for eventing" or "she travels so much" or "it's because of the Hunt." In my head I'd be shreaking "have you seen the size of the rats/bats/raccoons/feral cats?!!" I've also had vaccine clinic vets not even have rabies on the truck and been told "you have to let us know ahead of time."

    My current vet dispenses without argument, but he probably thinks I'm a hypochondriac.

    I am so sorry you are going thru this nightmare. Can you visit your stallion everyday to make sure nothing else goes wrong at UCD?
    Yes, I know exactly what you are saying. Many, many equine vets don't offer rabies vaccines to their clients. Many of our clients think we are insane, or trying to pad the bill, when we reccomend a rabies vaccine. It always blows my mind, because it is considered a CORE vaccine by every reputable veterinary organization in existence. I bet there isn't any other core vaccine that so many people refuse....
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com



  15. #55

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    https://www.outbreak-alert.com/alert...spx?addr=94952
    I picked 94952 at random to get the state of California rabies reports. Most are bats.

    My vet suspected a horse he was called on to put down had rabies and sure enough, tests came back positive. ALL of the people who participated in removing the brain had to get rabies shots.

    I really can't believe vets don't give rabies shots as the normal shot routine.
    www.northgeorgiasporthorses.com
    We have moved to Texas!



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Rabies can incubate for up to about 8 weeks
    However, any animal in which the disease has progressed to the point at which it can be passed in the saliva will be dead in a considerably shorter span of time.
    That is why the observation period is typically set at 10 days in bite cases.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by maggiecat View Post
    Gee, I trained in the Breeders' classes at both CSU and UC Davis vet schools; Also years ago I worked for the head repro vet at the WSU vet school. I have never heard any equine vet mention rabies vaccine or suggest my horses or someone else's needs it ( I own the Swedish stallion Amorex). So this was news to me...
    And how embarrassing it was, for the CSU Vet. school that one of their bison herd died with neuro symptoms and was ,upon necropsy, found to be infected with the rabies virus. http://www.nbc11news.com/11today/hea...160882625.html

    I must say I was shocked that the VET SCHOOL hadn't vaccinated since rabies is notable in the area, especially in the skunk population.


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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    However, any animal in which the disease has progressed to the point at which it can be passed in the saliva will be dead in a considerably shorter span of time.
    That is why the observation period is typically set at 10 days in bite cases.
    Good point, thanks.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    And how embarrassing it was, for the CSU Vet. school that one of their bison herd died with neuro symptoms and was ,upon necropsy, found to be infected with the rabies virus. http://www.nbc11news.com/11today/hea...160882625.html

    I must say I was shocked that the VET SCHOOL hadn't vaccinated since rabies is notable in the area, especially in the skunk population.
    Buffalo are a lot of fun to vaccinate....


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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    Buffalo are a lot of fun to vaccinate....
    I'm sure they managed to get it done..



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