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  1. #141
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    The breadwinner's primary contribution to the home is financial, the homemaker/at-home parent's (regardless of that person's sex) primary contribution is labor. Both are critical to the home and neither owes the other anything as long as that "agreement" is entered into with the full knowledge and consent of both parties.
    That's right. And when they split up, the breadwinner does not get to pick up his (or her) toys and leave with all the 'bread'.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    That's right. And when they split up, the breadwinner does not get to pick up his (or her) toys and leave with all the 'bread'.
    Of course not. If you think I was somehow suggesting that either party was somehow entitled to clean out the other financially or materially, you're reading into my words something that isn't there.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.



  3. #143
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2005
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    The Prairie
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    5,448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    I
    The breadwinner's primary contribution to the home is financial, the homemaker/at-home parent's (regardless of that person's sex) primary contribution is labor. Both are critical to the home and neither owes the other anything as long as that "agreement" is entered into with the full knowledge and consent of both parties.
    Except that when they split up,the one that worked outside the home has advanced in his or her career, earned a pension and remains employable. The one who stayed at home to manage the household and raise the children has not advanced in a paying career or is so far behind their peers they would find themselves at an entry level position again, assuming they are even still employable. This is why, in a traditional marriage where one party either gave up a career or did not pursue one, spousal support is ordered. The spouse that worked outside the home was able to do so because there was someone in the home managing the domestic end of things and raising the kids. Someone who has done that has been economically disadvantaged by the marriage and the point of spousal support is to restore them to the position they would be in but for the marriage. Depending on the circumstances, what the parties intentions were and whether that person can again become employable and how long that would take,the spousal support may be limited in duration or go on for a long time. At least that is the law where I live. Consider the position of someone who has been out of the work force for maybe 20 years while raising a family and is now suddenly without income. But for the agreement that the homemaker stay home and raise the family they could have had an established career in that time.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2010
    Location
    SE PA
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    383

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    I really dislike this line of thinking (and -- gasp! -- I'm a woman, albeit not a homemaker or a mother). Women do get compensated in the form of room and board, car(s), etc. that are provided to them but for which they do not pay in money.

    I should be declared legally insane for posting this here, but if you're going to make the "women should get paid for running the home and raising the kids" argument, then the counter argument is that the man who holds the paying, outside-the-home job is owed a substantial sum because he's the one footing all the bills.

    The breadwinner's primary contribution to the home is financial, the homemaker/at-home parent's (regardless of that person's sex) primary contribution is labor. Both are critical to the home and neither owes the other anything as long as that "agreement" is entered into with the full knowledge and consent of both parties.
    I agree in a way. I divorced a high earner, I left with my books, clothes, pets and vehicles (plural as I had a motorcycle). I didn't go after the house, or his income etc. As that was moral to me, he had paid for that. I don't hate my ex, and about every 4-6 months ish we call each other, I am friends with his wife, and he is with my hubby.

    As he earned enough I worked at none profits and did work I wanted to do as I didn't need to chase the money, and we had no kids.

    However, I did 3 out of 4 years of a law degree, and then he moved me from the UK to the US. It's not really possible to transfer like that, as the law is so different. So I went out to work rather than back to school when I moved to the US. He absolutely changed my career path, not that I regret that, as I am just fine now. I willingly chose to change my life for him, so that's on me. Just it's a confusing issue with not a clear cut answer.
    A Mom who stays home and sacrifices her career could go to work, and day care, but she is choosing not to. But then what's best for the kids....


    I have a cousin in law who divorced, is back living with her parents, she's about 40. She bought a custom motorcycle and a boob job with the money she got from her divorce. She has two kids, and this is how she spent the money.



  5. #145
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Except that when they split up,the one that worked outside the home has advanced in his or her career, earned a pension and remains employable. The one who stayed at home to manage the household and raise the children has not advanced in a paying career or is so far behind their peers they would find themselves at an entry level position again, assuming they are even still employable. This is why, in a traditional marriage where one party either gave up a career or did not pursue one, spousal support is ordered. The spouse that worked outside the home was able to do so because there was someone in the home managing the domestic end of things and raising the kids. Someone who has done that has been economically disadvantaged by the marriage and the point of spousal support is to restore them to the position they would be in but for the marriage. Depending on the circumstances, what the parties intentions were and whether that person can again become employable and how long that would take,the spousal support may be limited in duration or go on for a long time. At least that is the law where I live. Consider the position of someone who has been out of the work force for maybe 20 years while raising a family and is now suddenly without income. But for the agreement that the homemaker stay home and raise the family they could have had an established career in that time.
    Spousal support for the reasons you cite is reasonable. What I was taking issue with was the idea that the stay-at-home spouse is not already compensated for labor performed in the home when the working outside-the-home spouse is paying all the bills. When such is the case, the home the stay-at-home spouse lives in IS his or her compensation, as is the car he or she drives, the food he or she eats, and the electricity he or she enjoys, etc. Those forms of compensation are different from actual money, but they are forms of compensation nonetheless, just as if a barn manager is provided an apartment by a farm owner as part of the BM's compensation.

    When I said neither party owes the other anything as long as that arrangement was entered into by consent of both parties, I meant that neither party owes the other either for bills paid or for housekeeping or child-raising that occurred during the marriage. For the purposes of my argument, the question of spousal support for lack of career advancement is a separate issue, and one that, as I said, have no quarrel with.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2007
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    160

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    When we married 10 years ago, I was in the mide of my masters program. I owned my own house,y own car and I was
    Doing great. I met him while he was in law school. Have up my degree moved across the state and had 3 kids. All while he was furthering his career.
    I had a separate bank account for horse expense. Buying selling board farrier ect.
    The separate account was only to keep the financials of the horses less confusing.
    He is now trying to use that against me. He is trying to say that I had a side job with horses. Wtf.



  7. #147
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2000
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    3,147

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    Can't say it enough...let all this "stuff" he's saying just go in one ear and out the other. Not that you are blindsided but don't dwell on it. My Ex became a stellar creative genius while we were divorcing, crediting me with all sorts of things I had never done. It would have been comical if it hadn't been so hurtful at the time.

    Love on your kids and hold your head high. Don't get sucked into his nonsens blather. If your attorney is worth his/her salt, the facts will come out...you'll be alright.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #148
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    Feb. 14, 2010
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    2,993

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    Can't say it enough...let all this "stuff" he's saying just go in one ear and out the other. Not that you are blindsided but don't dwell on it. My Ex became a stellar creative genius while we were divorcing, crediting me with all sorts of things I had never done. It would have been comical if it hadn't been so hurtful at the time.

    Love on your kids and hold your head high. Don't get sucked into his nonsens blather. If your attorney is worth his/her salt, the facts will come out...you'll be alright.
    ^This.



  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2004
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    795

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    Tell him you sold them for 1.00. Have a trusted horse friend provide a bill of sale. Move them for awhile.



  10. #150
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    Feb. 17, 2004
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    Horses are only worth what someone is willing to pay. Right? ;-). And yes he is trying to leverage....what a bleep!!! Good luck



  11. #151
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    Deep South
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    14,732

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    Jobs imply income. It wouldn't be hard to disprove that with bank statements !
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
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    2,171

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    OH my ex tried that...but..

    I reminded him of the bmx bikes that he bought, the expensive fishing poles, the tools, the paid off truck etc. He backed right off when I listed my assets ( horse and trailer) and his assets ( 4 bmx bikes - 1000 each, fishing poles - 2000, truck etc). I told him my horse might be worth 3500 right now. He backed off completely. Like 360 degree turn.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #153
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    Nov. 1, 2007
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    160

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    Husband wants to have horses appraised ....



  14. #154
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    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    12,163

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellaalexander View Post
    Husband wants to have horses appraised ....
    This is probably best for both of you.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #155
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    Feb. 14, 2010
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    2,993

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellaalexander View Post
    Husband wants to have horses appraised ....
    Just don't go with the one HE wants...I have the feeling he is going to try to control that issue now too.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
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    I hope your horses are as smart as the horses of a trainer I know. When the appraiser showed up, 2 of her 5 horses came out limping... AND they were the best of her horses.... lol
    the next day they were totally fine again....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #157
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    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
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    4,010

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    Do you get to have the law firm appraised????

    Quote Originally Posted by bellaalexander View Post
    Husband wants to have horses appraised ....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #158
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    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,067

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    Make sure that you have all of his toys appraised also. The boat, the vehicles, the golf clubs, the guns, everything that he has paid a lot of money for during the marriage. Turnabout is fair play.

    When you are home taking care of children and raising a family, you are contributing to the marriage just as much as the spouse who is out making money in a profession.

    Get the shark attorney who likes to win.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2012
    Location
    Coastal NC
    Posts
    980

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Make sure that you have all of his toys appraised also. The boat, the vehicles, the golf clubs, the guns, everything that he has paid a lot of money for during the marriage. Turnabout is fair play.

    When you are home taking care of children and raising a family, you are contributing to the marriage just as much as the spouse who is out making money in a profession.

    Get the shark attorney who likes to win.
    Sadly, I have had several couples, which are so caught up in winning, that they lose sight of what they are fighting about. One couple fought so much the wife spent almost $200,000 in attorney's fees and once it was over both parties declared bankruptcy. Please try to maintain some perspective.

    My husband and I (both attorneys) always joke that when one of us leaves the other gets the house, kids, pets and horses :winkgrin



  20. #160
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2008
    Posts
    426

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    I just wanted to add that if he still has his mistress(es) then you're not only fighting your husband, you're fighting her too. The husband probably just wants out of the marriage, the mistress wants to destroy you.

    I watched this happen with my sister, 20 year marriage where he cheated for 15 years with different women. The last one (whom he married) did everything she could to ruin my sister financially and socially, and and managed to do some damage. She even convinced the husband to give her the children's 80k college fund, my nephews now attend community and local state colleges, instead of the private universities they were accepted to, all the money is gone. California laws are brutal, my sister, a housewife for 15 years, can not touch her ex's retirement, alimony is short-term and the courts don't care about infidelity. She'll work for the rest of her life and never catch up.

    The only thing that saved her from complete ruin was that she acted fast. Don't hesitate, if your lawyer says do something, do it. Make phone calls immediately. Get the papers you need now. Don't give him and his mistress a chance to act first. And don't let them bankrupt you, they tried to do that to my sister.

    BTW, my husband and I have traveled to the Philippines several times, where husband stealing is an art. These mistresses have friends giving advice and help.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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