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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
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    1,919

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    I've always had a weird feeling about her... Just didn't seem to add up. And obviously after the Uveitis thread pretty much lost all respect for her. Nonetheless, this new info is appalling. I understand not immediately realizing a horse dropped weight/didn't gain like you had thought under a blanket... But... Not like that. And if the horse was that thin to begin with I can't imagine not checking it constantly. There's just no excuse.

    Maria, I hope you realize this is a wake up call. Obviously you're overwhelmed/unable to care for the animals in your care, fix it, make changes. You know in your heart that what you did and are doing is wrong. The horses deserve better, do whatever it takes to get them what they deserve... By finding new homes, by cutting back to the bare minimum number and taking care of them appropriately... Whatever that may be. But get it done. Yesterday.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    19,482

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    Just saw on Facebook that she got a lot of horses from AC4H. Back in April, she posted on Facebook that she "saved" 30 horses from them and currently had "many" of them at her barn:
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...al_comments=61
    And defending AC4H as well. That's interesting.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2002
    Location
    The horse country of VA
    Posts
    3,332

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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    And defending AC4H as well. That's interesting.
    I figure her defense of them is, most likely, because she was getting horses from them for free.
    Equus Keepus Brokus



  4. #104
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    19,482

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    I figure her defense of them is, most likely, because she was getting horses from them for free.
    I doubt AC4H gave anything away for free.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2007
    Posts
    3,576

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    I am not on Facebook, so I found shady lady's comments interesting.
    Gosh, how people can spin.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  6. #106
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2002
    Location
    The horse country of VA
    Posts
    3,332

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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I doubt AC4H gave anything away for free.
    No, of course not. What I meant by "free" is that AC4H did the "fundraising", and their supporters paid the "bail" for the OP.

    That is SOP for AC4H; they threaten that the "truck is coming", but the horse can be "saved" if folks step up and pay the fees to get it to the "great home" who can't even afford to pay the "bail".
    Equus Keepus Brokus



  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 2012
    Location
    Cranberry, PA
    Posts
    1,035

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    I will tell you from experience that animal neglect/ cruelty is very hard to criminalize in PA. I had my horses starved by a former BO who even told the SPCA (I reported him) that he stopped feeding the boarders and his own horses or turning them out because he wanted to get out of horses. No charges.
    At another barn we used to board at, the SPCA is out there regularly. Recently they were there for the whole Fox Valley Oliver situation. They had that stallion starved and neglected horribly but no criminal charges were brought. The farm is still up and running breeding NASH ponies despite that they cant afford to feed their horses, had several horses die of unknown causes, no vet will service them because they cant pay their bills, and yet the SPCA will not charge them. Their horses are walking cesspool skeletons but they can remain open. It's awful.They are known hoarders and will take free horses flip them or take them to auctions to be able to have money for hay. It's awful and I could go on and on about this farm but that's a whole new thread.
    My point is that in PA its difficult to press charges even when its obvious. I hope Aspen does get help and this situation doesn't escalate to the point of the people above.



  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2010
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    2,996

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chachie View Post
    I will tell you from experience that animal neglect/ cruelty is very hard to criminalize in PA. I had my horses starved by a former BO who even told the SPCA (I reported him) that he stopped feeding the boarders and his own horses or turning them out because he wanted to get out of horses. No charges.
    At another barn we used to board at, the SPCA is out there regularly. Recently they were there for the whole Fox Valley Oliver situation. They had that stallion starved and neglected horribly but no criminal charges were brought. The farm is still up and running breeding NASH ponies despite that they cant afford to feed their horses, had several horses die of unknown causes, no vet will service them because they cant pay their bills, and yet the SPCA will not charge them. Their horses are walking cesspool skeletons but they can remain open. It's awful.They are known hoarders and will take free horses flip them or take them to auctions to be able to have money for hay. It's awful and I could go on and on about this farm but that's a whole new thread.
    My point is that in PA its difficult to press charges even when its obvious. I hope Aspen does get help and this situation doesn't escalate to the point of the people above.
    Things seem to go from bad to worse these days...



  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2011
    Posts
    272

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chachie View Post
    I will tell you from experience that animal neglect/ cruelty is very hard to criminalize in PA. ...
    My point is that in PA its difficult to press charges even when its obvious. I hope Aspen does get help and this situation doesn't escalate to the point of the people above.
    This was my experience as well. They legally cannot do anything if there is food, water, and shelter ON THE PROPERTY, even if the horses have zero access to any of it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
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    1,919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chachie View Post
    I will tell you from experience that animal neglect/ cruelty is very hard to criminalize in PA. I had my horses starved by a former BO who even told the SPCA (I reported him) that he stopped feeding the boarders and his own horses or turning them out because he wanted to get out of horses. No charges.
    At another barn we used to board at, the SPCA is out there regularly. Recently they were there for the whole Fox Valley Oliver situation. They had that stallion starved and neglected horribly but no criminal charges were brought. The farm is still up and running breeding NASH ponies despite that they cant afford to feed their horses, had several horses die of unknown causes, no vet will service them because they cant pay their bills, and yet the SPCA will not charge them. Their horses are walking cesspool skeletons but they can remain open. It's awful.They are known hoarders and will take free horses flip them or take them to auctions to be able to have money for hay. It's awful and I could go on and on about this farm but that's a whole new thread.
    My point is that in PA its difficult to press charges even when its obvious. I hope Aspen does get help and this situation doesn't escalate to the point of the people above.
    When you said NASH ponies I was pretty sure I knew who you were talking about. I hadn't heard about the shire stallion but have long had my suspicions about them, they post on some of the FB Groups I am on. Sad and disgusting.



  11. #111
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2010
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    460

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    "It was a hard winter", nope. I am about an hour from her, and have lived in PA for 7 years, this past winter was the easiest I've experienced in this state. My school district only had 2 snow days.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  12. #112
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    Apr. 21, 2010
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    2,552

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    This was the mildest winter I have encountered in my 10+ years of home horse ownership in PA. That's total BS.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
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    8,197

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    and Frog Pond was being blamed for rescuing, treating and eventually euthanizing Fox Valley Oliver when all they did was try to help... look at the source of the problem? Why/how can AC and LE be so blind sometimes?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,597

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    Lack of general livestock knowledge and/or experience.
    They read "requires forage" and see a single mold covered bale and think "well, that covers it!"
    They hear from an owner, "Oh, he's emaciated because he's 14 and old!" and they think "14 *is* really old, okay!" because they're thinking of their 14 year old ancient toothless dog at home.
    Join your local/state horseman's councils and work hard towards supporting having AC trained in equine care and control. Or having criteria for local ACs include practical experience in horse-keeping.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    7 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2007
    Posts
    1,069

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    You're right MB. We once called on a horse that was tied out in over 100 degree weather with WIRE around his neck in an open field that wasn't even owned by the horse owner. He had open sores on his fetlocks from where the wire had been wrapped around his feet. We tried to ride our horses out to him, but the ground had been furrowed and then allowed to harden- horses couldn't even navigate the terrain very well. Thankfully they ground-tied well and they stayed put. Anyway, we got to the horse and he was so thin and so sick looking. He walked right up to me and buried his head in my chest The look in his eye was heartbreaking. I wanted to cry. We got back to our horses, cantered them home and called AC and thankfully the vet was out there too, so she came with us.

    AC guy was such an idiot. He said the horse had food (It was a field of wild oats that had already dropped the groats- no nutrition in there at all) and the vet gave him a body condition of 2-3, checked his hydration (his skin stuck to itself and his gums were white) and declared him extremely dehydrated. The AC guy looked at the wounds, and said "Well, they are healing so I can't do anything about it. He has food and I see a water trough on their property." And he left. We were all dumbfounded. He also had his hooves growing over old shoes. He could barely walk.

    Of course, same AC guy would rescue dogs from even the slightest hint of abuse (which is good but still...) but knew nothing about horses and refused to learn or to listen to one of the most well known equine vets in the area.

    From then on, whenever we rode by that place if they had a horse tied out like that, they would run out and grab it. We tried calling AC over and over and the guy went out and looked at the place once. Yep, some hay and water and shelter so good to go. They took good care of their prize horses, and starved and neglected others. I have no idea why. They tried to spook our horses too, thankfully our horses were bomb proof and just gave them the stink eye. I am still haunted by the look in that horse's eye and wish I could have just taken him.
    Last edited by Capall; Aug. 17, 2013 at 10:33 PM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2011
    Posts
    272

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    The problem is that horses in PA are considered livestock, not pets, so the rules governing them are more lax than with cats or dogs.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    2,813

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    ^^^^ spot on. They are considered livestock not just in Pa, for whatever reason people are throwing Pa under the bus. If you are so enraged by the stupidity, go volunteer. Put your money where your loud mouth is. Wait- you're too busy and it's not your job...why not just bitch about what you clearly have limited knowledge of. Not all AC people are idiots. I worked with a SPCA in PA that were knowledgable about farm animals and small. Unfortunately, the laws are antiquated and seem to protect the owners and not the animals.

    Most try hard to protect and save the animals they can. Too bad they are inundated with abusive owners.
    Last edited by Pennywell Bay; Aug. 17, 2013 at 09:57 PM.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies



  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 2012
    Location
    Cranberry, PA
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    Yep its awful. As long as they have food of some sort or evidence food was recently there, water and shelter the poor animals can be knee high in manure. Oh the things i could tell you about Fox Valley Oliver and the people who had him. Frog Pond was not at at all in the wrong from what I know. It sickens me that AC and the DA will not prosecute but that's PA for you.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2011
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    272

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
    ^^^^ spot on. They are considered livestock not just in Pa, for whatever reason people are throwing Pa under the bus. If you are so enraged by the stupidity, go volunteer. Put your money where your loud mouth is. Wait- you're too busy and it's not your job...why not just bitch about what you clearly have limited knowledge of. Not all AC people are idiots. I worked with a SPCA in PA that were knowledgable about farm animals and small. Unfortunately, the laws are antiquated and seem to protect the owners and not the animals.

    Most try hard to protect and save the animals they can. Too bad they are inundated with abusive owners.
    I said PA because I know the laws in PA. It's the same in NJ (where I live). It's probably the same in many other states.

    As for putting my money where my mouth is... I do a LOT of animal rescue AND work as a tech in a low cost spay/neuter clinic where I work closely with some REALLY AWESOME AC officers.

    We're all on the same side... the animals' side. No reason to get nasty.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
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    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    ^^^ I said you were spot on, meaning I agree with you. I edited to the poster below me.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


    1 members found this post helpful.

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