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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    Mama can and will breed the day after giving birth, so DO NOT leave her outside unless you want to own a perpetually pregnant cat and 40+ of her offspring.
    A cat going into heat the day after birth sounds extreme, but cats do often go into heat again when the kittens are too young to wean, so she really does need to be kept in until the kittens are weaned and she can be spayed.

    Cats are serious baby making machines.


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  2. #42
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    Cats can be spayed before the babies are weaned, too. (Though, if you keep her indoors, that should be unnecessary.)


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fessy's Mom View Post
    I honestly cannot wrap my head around you who are telling this person to have the mother spayed before she gives birth to the kittens. I could never in good conscience kill kittens because it was inconvenient for me. If I took the cat in and it was having kittens, those kittens would now be MY responsibility. No one else's. I would keep them, vacc them and s/n them and KEEP them. Why is it anyone else's responsibility to take them, especially with the over-population problem? I'd rather be the solution than a contributor. Couldn't live with myself otherwise. *shrugs*
    I would also recommend the terminal spay. I think anyone who has spent any time in rescue, animal control or even a high volume vet would agree. Because euthanizing fetuses (who are asleep from the anesthetic) is so bad but not nearly as bad as euthanizing cute, fluffy, friendly, hallmark kittens and their sweet moms and all their half grown friendly cousins. Now THAT is hard and anyone who doesn't believe it should go spend some time doing it, then if you still want to NOT spay them pregnant go for it. Just be prepared to KEEP THEM ALL if you cannot find homes for them. (I see you would poster but that is not the norm). It is true though you give them away you just signed a death warrant for another kitten who now won't have a home available. Even if that person would have gone to a rescue instead, now they won't and the rescue can't rescue another one either.

    To the OP PLEASE keep her inside. Cats are fine inside and they will be much longer lived and healthier in general than outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats. Just read all those replies of owners who accidently ran over their own cats on the other thread!!
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


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  4. #44
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    For everybody saying that the kittens should be spayed/neutered before being rehomed how do you get that done at 7-8 weeks. None of the vets in my area will do spay/neuter for a private individual that young. Juvenile spay/neuters are only done for official Rescue groups.
    Is it just my area that vets won't do juvenile spay/neuters?

    Over the years I have taken in a few pregnant cats and placed the kittens. I have never had the kittens spayed/neutered before placing. I just could not afford that. The last pregnant cat I took in was 11 years ago. Now I would do a terminal spay.
    My last litter was more like 6 years ago. I picked up 4 kittens plus momma cat from a bad situation and then about a week later was given 2 kittens that were abandoned at a pet store where a friend worked. Financially the flea treatment and shots is what I could afford. I certainly couldn't have afforded spaying 5 and neutering one kitten plus spaying momma cat.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  5. #45
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    I strongly urge you to keep her inside too. I had a feral cat that I could not catch and she had kittens before I could get her spayed. I could not find those kittens until they started getting very active and they were very feral. Took me weeks to get them friendly and more weeks to catch them (in several batches so I worried over the ones left out). During that whole time, I was worried they'd wander into the road or get killed by predators. Luckily, I got them all and spent more weeks taming them in the spare bathroom. Was a HUGE project - very time consuming and I worried about the whole time. Was lucky enough to have a local feral cat charity help with the costs to spay and neuter the mom, the dad (who I had to really work to trap) and all 5 kittens. They then helped me place the kittens after they were tame. THey also enlisted the help of a local feral catt "whiperer" to tame 3 of the really feral kittens. I kept mom, dad and one of the kittens.

    I say for your peace of mind and so that they will be properly socialized that you should try to keep them inside.

    Good luck - you are doing a good thing. I hear you about the terminal spay - it's a personal decision and, while I don't mind it early in a pregancy, it would bother me later term, but I would have done it for this feral had I been able to catch her...



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    For everybody saying that the kittens should be spayed/neutered before being rehomed how do you get that done at 7-8 weeks. None of the vets in my area will do spay/neuter for a private individual that young. Juvenile spay/neuters are only done for official Rescue groups.
    Is it just my area that vets won't do juvenile spay/neuters?
    Pediatric surgeries are becoming more and more common in recent years, now that many old myths are being debunked by science and now that technology has caught up. I work for a clinic where we not only DO pediatric spays for any/all pet owners, but ADVISE getting the kittens done as early as possible.



  7. #47
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    Interesting. When a mom and litter showed up at our house we spayed mom once the kittens were pretty much weaned (she wasn't pregnant again either, almost surprisingly), and the little females were spayed at 4 months. The vet actually recommended waiting until 6 months for the male kitten. That was 15 years ago though.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; Aug. 5, 2013 at 11:00 PM.



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    I think anyone who has spent any time in rescue, animal control or even a high volume vet would agree.
    To quote my mother when I was growing up:

    "Sometimes people will hold a different opinion than you do about something.

    Sometimes people will hold a different opinion than you PASSIONATELY hold about something.

    That does not mean that they just aren't educated enough.

    That does not mean that they just haven't thought it through enough.

    That does not mean that if only they would get their head screwed on straight and correct their deficiencies, they would see the light.

    That does not mean that anybody who really HAS given this matter some consideration would naturally agree with you, so anybody who does not agree with you hasn't done their homework.

    That only means that people are different and see and weigh and interpret situations differently.

    There will always be people who disagree with you. That fact alone does not make their opinion uninformed."

    Very wise woman, she was.

    And I have known someone who worked at a shelter and also in AC for years, and she herself could not terminal spay a heavily pregnant cat she found. But she DID take responsibility for all kittens.


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  9. #49
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    At the low cost spay and neuter clinic I volunteer at, kittens are spayed or neutered when they weigh 2 pounds. Honestly, I've never checked on when my actual vet prefers to do that procedure. If you aren't able to adopt them out already spayed and neutered, maybe there is something else that you can do to ensure that they are altered (like a refundable deposit upon proof of the procedure). You might also be able to sponsor and foster these kittens through a local rescue, and the rescue could help with pre-screening the homes or perhaps finding a vet qualified to sterilize young kittens.


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  10. #50
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    Poor Katie Cat is huge, I'm really thinking any day now...Have been trying to get in touch with shelters around town, but haven't had much help from them yet. Going to stay on them, though. If the rescue doesn't pan out, I like the idea of the refundable deposit or some other incentive for the owners to get it done.

    ETA Forgot to mention that there is a place that will do cheap/free spay/neuter days every once in a while, I will check in to that and see if they have a date coming up in the near future.
    Last edited by talkofthetown; Aug. 6, 2013 at 10:25 AM. Reason: forgot...



  11. #51
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    I don't think pediatric spays are good at all for the health of the kittens, and until someone definitely proves otherwise, I don't think they should be done. The cats I've gotten from rescues came intact, and I had them neutered later. My own vet recommends 7 months for cat neuters. If are a responsible cat owner and don't let the cat wander around outside, you will be able to avoid accidental breedings.



  12. #52
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    Can I vent for one quick second? Just found out about the "mixup". Asked DH's sister about the spay that never happened, and her response was "Oh no, we didn't have her spayed, we just paid for it, you guys were supposed to take her in later and have it done." Uh, not what you told us before....?!!

    This, coming from the woman who just gave birth to her 3rd Oops Baby. Not: This third child was an accident. I'm saying ALL THREE were accidents.

    I love those kids to death, they are healthy and well mannered and yada yada yada. But really people, have you not figured out by now how one gets pregnant???

    Probably not fair of me to associate their pro-creating with my now pregnant cat. But I'm going to do it anyway. Just because I can. Where's the "AAHHHH HEADDESK" icon?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    I don't think pediatric spays are good at all for the health of the kittens, and until someone definitely proves otherwise, I don't think they should be done. The cats I've gotten from rescues came intact, and I had them neutered later. My own vet recommends 7 months for cat neuters. If are a responsible cat owner and don't let the cat wander around outside, you will be able to avoid accidental breedings.
    Why do you not think that pediatric spays are health? Do you have specific evidence or experience? A few of our local rescues have been using pediatric spays for a number of years with no issues.
    I am a responsible pet owner yet I had an unspayed cat get out on me. She was locked in a second floor bedroom, she popped the screen, went out on the roof and hopped off. (Bad Punkie). She wasn't in heat when she got out so I was lucky. I also had to rescue one of her kittens from the gutter. She had followed momma out but couldn't jump off the roof. Punkie was one I got with her litter of 6 week old kittens.

    Cats in heat can be devious about getting out. Even then it is easy to be carrying something and have one slip out while your hands are full. They are more likely to do it when in heat. I have had them come into heat as early as 5 months yet at the time my vet preferred to spay at 6 months.

    While I would like to think that the people I have placed a cat with are responsible I can't be 100% sure and sometimes accidents happen or life gets in the way. It would be nice if I could place already spayed kittens then accidents can't happen.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  14. #54
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    I work for a local no-kill shelter. We've been doing pediatric spay/neuters for years. So far, we haven't noticed any difference in the health of the little bitties vs. the older spays. The little bitties bounce back a lot faster and have fewer complications. Their health as adults is no different.

    Now, it's most likely because they have good homes, but the early neuters are healthier than the intact adults we have coming in. Not to mention, less behavioral problems like same sex aggression, spraying, and wandering.

    I'm not against terminal spays. I don't like them, but sometimes they need to be done. If the females health isn't great, it's sometimes better to spay then to let them have puppies. We had a pregnant yorkie come in that was about six or seven days from birth that we did a terminal spay on. She had a severe dental infection, mange, and a bacterial infection in her skin. We couldn't treat her medical issues while pregnant or nursing, so we spayed. If they are healthy, we may consider allowing birth if we have a foster home willing to take mamma and babies. Otherwise they are spayed. There are too many cats and dogs being born that don't have a place to go. It's hard to justify allowing every cat that comes into the shelter pregnant being allowed to give birth.

    Today I counted, I turned down 35 kittens, 7 adult cats, 18 adult dogs, and 11 puppies for our shelter. I made appointments for 3 dogs for intake, as that was all the kennel space we had. We currently have no space for cats. We adopted out two small puppies, lost one cat to a drug reaction (that was scary, she reacted to the frontline put on her with an anaphalactic reaction, and was dead before we could get her five minutes down the road to the vet), and sent one mange puppy out on foster. Too many animals, not enough homes....



  15. #55
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    We acquired the neighbor's itty bitty kitty a couple of years ago. They left and left her behind and she started coming over to our house, we walked over there and fed her under their deck and she'd eat and come right back, we talked to the neighbor's uncle who was doing yard work and said the cat is up here - by the time we realized they didn't care and we had a cat we had a pregnant itty bitty cat. I really couldn't stand the idea of a terminal spay, we've done it before and it bothered me so much at the time, and we do have the room here. We kept all the kittens, all four, and now have seven cats.

    Our local spay neuter clinic does it at 4 lbs. We had mom spayed while she was still nursing and the little females spayed when they got to 3lbs 15 and 7/8 ounces - as in ASAP. We're sort of like the Beardsleys on shot day, two carriers stuffed to the gills with cats, "and who's this?"

    Birthing was actually quite easy, we set her up a big box with towels and whatnot in the quiet back bedroom and let her eat back there for a week, she still looked around and even visited those blasted neighbors that never came up and got her and kept her home, but she came back and had her kittens in the box, and walked on out in the living room and came and got DD to show her kittens off, they were that new. They were so fun. As adult cats they aren't quite so much fun, have to say that.

    I guess it's the ultimate in control freakism to keep them like that, but it seemed to be the best ethical choice out of not many good ones for us.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
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  16. #56
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    I have no problem having a cat spayed that isn't too far along in her pregnancy, but when they're in the late stages of pregnancy I can't do it. By that time they are nearly fully formed and ready to be born.
    I see no difference between euthanizing a kitten in the shelter and a kitten ready to be born. To me it's a difference without a distinction.


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by judmor View Post
    I see no difference between euthanizing a kitten in the shelter and a kitten ready to be born. To me it's a difference without a distinction.
    You said it much better than I would have, but yes, this is what I was thinking too.


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  18. #58
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    Their health as adults is no different.
    and you know this how? There are a number of studies in dogs about the impact of neutering, particularly neutering before full growth is achieved, and it clearly has a profound, and mostly negative, impact on the ability of the animal to develop properly.
    Very little science done in this area on cats. We simply don't know, but it certainly seems very LIKELY it isn't particularly good for cats to be neutered before full growth is achieved.
    I certainly understand the desire to control cat breeding, but inflicting potentially harmful surgeries on animals is, in my opinion, far more unethical than humanely euthanizing them due to lack of homes.
    Prove the surgery isn't harmful first. That has not been done.

    One alternative is pediatric tube-tying. The animal can't breed, yet has the advantage of having normal hormones during the maturation process; the animal can then be fully neutered later on, if the owner so desires.



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by harnessphoto View Post
    Cats can be spayed before the babies are weaned, too.
    Yeah, "OW!", though.

    Give a cat a break for a minute.
    The armchair saddler
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Yeah, "OW!", though.

    Give a cat a break for a minute.
    It's not so bad. You can do a flank spay so it doesn't interfere with the babies nursing. You would just have to be careful with the selection of analgesic after the procedure to make sure they don't get into the milk.



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