The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    5,255

    Default Spin off – Does your farrier give injections?

    Spin off of another thread. Seems like some posters have farriers that administer sedatives. How common of a practice is this? The very few times I have needed a sedative for a shoeing appointment, my farrier at the time (a well respected “sport horse” farrier in Woodside CA) – insisted that a veterinarian or the owner administer the drugs.

    I think this is totally reasonable, because as I understand it, farriers are not licensed to administer prescription medications.

    But, from the tone of some posts, it sounds like this is standard practice among some circles.

    Is it? Does your farrier give injections? Any farriers on the board want to chime in?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,077

    Default

    Yes. My farrier dopes one of my horses who has sensitive hooves. At my direction. And with my vet-prescribed sedative. Under my supervision and in my presence. He has had horses all of his life, he showed horses, etc., and he's more of an expert at injections than I am. (I can do skin pops, but I don't like to inject into veins.)

    I once boarded where a BO aced horses all the time. I did not like her using Ace so much. She did it without the permission of us boarders. And I once boarded where a BO injected banamine into my mare's artery. That was scary, but I was holding onto my mare. The banamine was for her hoof issues, as that mare could sniff out bute in anything. I switched her to oral banamine after the seizures due to BO hitting the artery.

    I trust my farrier. If I didn't trust him, he wouldn't be working on my horses' hooves, much less doping one of them. My horse snores through his shoeing.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2013
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    247

    Default

    My farrier does, but I'm not sure he makes it a regular practice. This man is not just my farrier, but also my trainer's fiance, whose house I go to regularly to hang out, go to dinner with, travel with, etc.. So when my horse first started getting shoes, and would get absolutely rank when hammering on his back feet, farrier and I agreed that some IM Ace would be good for both farrier's physical wellbeing and horse's mental wellbeing. It only took a handful or so of shoeings for horse to come around and realize he wasn't going to die.

    But both my farrier and trainer/BM won't give IV injections unless it's their own horse, or close to it. Even I give IM injections around the barn. It's a good thing to know how to do, because you never know when you'll need to give an IM injection and who will or won't be around. So if your farrier doesn't want to give IM injections themselves, you can have your vet teach you so that you can give them when the farrier comes instead of having the vet out.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    13,157

    Default

    NO
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
    Posts
    6,354

    Default

    No, but has been given permission to use sedation if the horse is painful.

    Transmucosal dermosedan or acepromazine is generally used over injections.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2011
    Posts
    164

    Default

    At our barn, neither the farrier nor the dentist can give sedation. They work well with our vet and it's pretty seamless when the need arises. I cannot imagine sedating a horse without the owner's knowledge/permission.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
    Posts
    7,246

    Default

    Illegal in NC. We have given oral demosedan provided by the vet, to a horse that desperately needed sedation (or a bullet, which JMHO would have been a far better solution). Oh and to a semi-feral donkey who gets his feet done twice a year. That's about it.

    Jennifer


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,519

    Default

    No. I gave my mare sublingual dormosedan the last time my farrier did her feet and it worked wonders. However, I am not sure it is legal for him to sedate a horse in my state, nor would I give any farrier permission to do so. I am quite sure my farrier would never sedate a horse himself for liability reasons (among other reasons). Seems to me that if he sedates the horse, he would be responsible for it's health while under sedation, but if *I* sedate my own horse it's my responsibility.

    As for injections for sedation, no way. But for all the same reasons as above. Not only is it an issue of *sedation* but also of proper injection technique. No way would my farrier risk any of that. If patience and gentle training won't work for him, I am pretty sure he'd be off to see his next client...



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2008
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    156

    Default

    Never.
    Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakend. ~Anatole France~
    www.EquineKneadsLLC.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,515

    Default

    Not mine, it's illegal for him to do so and I can't see him even thinking of it. I do know some folks who get in newer horses regularly that get a little cocktail help for that first pedicure so they have time to work with the horse and it's feet before the second pedicure...they'll either have the vet out at the same time or have a good relationship with their vet and the experience to pick up what they need and administer it themselves for the farrier. Oh, and one who is a vet so she can give whatever she wants. But I don't know any farriers that will give anything to a horse. Dentists can't either here in CT.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    I believe it is illegal here for anyone but a vet to give that injection. However, I would rather see a horse sedated then one being beaten. I have had to have words with several farriers in the past about beating horses at a boarding barn. Not my farriers, not my horses. I am always there for the farrier and if my horse misbehaves then I can handle it the way I want. I have sedated my own in the past.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2009
    Location
    NCC DE
    Posts
    2,312

    Default

    Not to my knowledge and definitely not to my horse. I've come to the barn while the farrier is working on my horse and as soon as he was finished gotten on the horse to ride. I'd know if he was drugged.

    I absolutely trust my farrier. I've only held the horse twice for him, once was the first time he put shoes on him and the second was the first time he put a hot shoe on. My horse has manners and will stand to have his feet done.

    As far as too much sedation goes, I have a relatively big horse (not tall but heavily muscled) and the vet needed to sedate him to treat an indolent corneal ulcer. After she was finished I wound up having to help him stay up by leaning on him while he leaned on the wall for about half an hour. The vet also stuck around a little longer to make sure he was coming out of it OK. As she was getting ready to leave she wrote in her notes that the big horse needs a lower dose. He needed less sedation than one would have thought based on his ~1200 lb body weight.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    No. I gave my mare sublingual dormosedan the last time my farrier did her feet and it worked wonders. However, I am not sure it is legal for him to sedate a horse in my state, nor would I give any farrier permission to do so. I am quite sure my farrier would never sedate a horse himself for liability reasons (among other reasons). Seems to me that if he sedates the horse, he would be responsible for it's health while under sedation, but if *I* sedate my own horse it's my responsibility.

    As for injections for sedation, no way. But for all the same reasons as above. Not only is it an issue of *sedation* but also of proper injection technique. No way would my farrier risk any of that. If patience and gentle training won't work for him, I am pretty sure he'd be off to see his next client...
    Wow, just read the other thread.

    So, to be clear, I gave my horse a sublingual dose of dormosedan with both my farrier's and the vet's approval, after 2 unusually bad trims/shoeing (out of 10 years) which suggested something else going on; and we wanted to get to the bottom of it.

    For what it's worth - not only would I never approve my farrier giving a sedative to my horse without my knowledge, but I would also never approve my trainer or my vet to do so either. Maybe in an emergency situation, but otherwise - no! My horse, my choice! My horse will not die from not getting her feet done on time....that is not an emergency.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2004
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    He'll NO!!!!!! No one is allowed to inject my horse with anything except one of my vets who thankfully i am friends with and who I trust.

    NO ONE.
    "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2003
    Location
    Where is gets way too cold
    Posts
    3,536

    Default

    Nope. The farriers who carry drugs on their truck (and I know a couple right now) are also putting the livelihood of the vets they are getting the drugs from in jeopardy as well, because if s*** goes down, the vet who illegally supplied them with drugs will be liable.
    My farrier is an RVT and the son of a vet and is more than capable of giving meds properly, but there is no need to and he won't touch the liability with a 10' pole.
    *CrowneDragon*
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2012
    Location
    gulf coast
    Posts
    984

    Default

    My farrier, no. But I know of another who does, whenever a horse is wiggly. That farrier has serious back issues and needs the horse to stand very still when he is under him. Not sure if permission has been given in every case.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    303

    Default

    No way! If my horse needs sedation, my vet will be the one to give it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2010
    Location
    Earlysville, Virginia
    Posts
    3,256

    Default

    I've never needed a horse sedated for farrier work until last week. (Horse was getting casts put on and the whole deal took 2 hours..unfortunately horsey got impatient).

    Farrier suggested it, I agreed. I gave the injection (he started to give me pointers til be realized I knew what I was doing!)

    I got the vibe he would have given it himself if I didn't feel comfortable, but I've given many an IM injection so I did it myself.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 2012
    Location
    Cranberry, PA
    Posts
    1,005

    Default

    From my knowledge and experience as a vet tech, it is my understanding that it is illegal for your farrier or dentist to sedate for procedures without prior authorization from your horse's vet. Not just any vet, but your horse's vet, not the farrier's or the dentist but your vet. And it is illegal to sedate or give any kind of drugs without the owner's permission. Their vet doesn't have the client patient vet relationship and giving drugs just randomly is illegal. Just like in human medicine. This has been a huge battle for years with vets vs. farriers and especially equine dentists. I've worked with some vets who have reported dentists for illegally sedating their patients without permission from the owner or their vet. That practice held a good argument being that they were carrying and distributing narcotics without a DEA license, not properly examining the horse prior to sedation therefore putting their patient and the people around him at risk should an adverse reaction occur. The vets at this practice were right and the dentist was barred from performing any procedures again. His license was revoked. I didnt work at the practice when this happened but I completly agree: no one should be sedating my horses without my vets permission. Truthfully, you don't know what is in their drugs. They could be injecting any kind of concoction from a bottle of Ace. I value my horses too much to put them at risk like that. Plus, if your horse does have a reaction, most drug companies will NOT work with you if their drug was not prescribed for your anal by a licensed vet. If your animal had a severe reaction from their drug, some companies will assist you but only if their drug was used properly by a vet that haf an established relationship with you.
    Yes we all keep Ace, Bute, and Banamine on hand because those can be life saving drugs and your vet prescribed them to you thus establishing a client vet relationship . But if your farrier or dentist is sedating your horse without your permission using drugs they didn't prescribe, you may be on your own if something bad occurs. It's just not worth it, especially when almost every vet I have worked with will sell you the sedatives for the procedure you need your horse sedated for. Most vets are ok with someone else administering them as long as they prescribed them. It's a liability thing and honestly, I believe in some states it is illegal for a vet to prescribe sedatives in bulk to farriers or dentists. I may be wrong.
    Anyway, you can go on the AAEP website. There were several articles about this years back. I can't look it up now as I'm late for work but I know there are vets on here who can give more specifics than I can. Or word it better than I did. Not sure if my brain is conveying my thoughts to my phone's keyboard properly yet lol
    Last edited by Chachie; Jul. 30, 2013 at 07:35 AM. Reason: spelling of course...(sigh)



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
    Posts
    2,183

    Default

    I've known farriers who carried a bottle of xylazine in their truck for emergencies, but I also haven't met a BO/BM who doesn't have a bottle of xylazine for emergencies.

    I tranq'd my horse when he was on strict stall rest and couldn't be expected to keep it together to stand for an hour for the farrier. But I tranq'd him. With oral dorm, never injectables.
    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    Transmucosal dermosedan or acepromazine is generally used over injections.


    However, one of the reasons I stopped using my latest farrier was because he kept pestering me for tubes of my oral dorm that he could use on other clients' horses. Not ok.



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 38
    Last Post: Sep. 25, 2012, 03:44 PM
  2. Do I give my farrier another chance?
    By Sister7 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Apr. 20, 2011, 09:23 PM
  3. Farrier won't give estimate
    By Oakstable in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: Feb. 21, 2011, 11:42 AM
  4. Replies: 29
    Last Post: Jan. 21, 2010, 05:34 PM
  5. Replies: 12
    Last Post: Jul. 24, 2009, 03:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •