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  1. #61
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    I read the entire County saddle debacle from the eventing forum. If it had not been for a clerical snafu the seller would have been completely screwed.

    My buyer msg me today to say she will only submit the photos of the damage to eBay - working the system. I hope she doesn't run her sushi restaurant with unethical practices. If my saddle is returned with no damage...I do t know all of my options but in digging around I think there is a claim that might be made against eBay ...still trying to work I out though.


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  2. #62
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    Clerical error explained in post 203 of the County saddle debacle thread... The clerical error was that the case was handled by 2 eBay employees and the second did not read all of the information that was given to the first. See below but and pasted from the other thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
    UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The case was settled after I appealed it on Thursday! Ebay refunded both me and the buyer. Ebay decided that they didn't have enough evidence to give money to one person or the other. The reason why the buyer was refunded, was because the original case manager went out of town and the person who picked up the work didn't read all of the emails. So because they refunded the buyer, they had to refund me because it was ebay's mistake. So basically I still get to keep the saddle. (not sure what I will do with it.). I might donate it to the local pony club equestrian center. So seller's beware take pictures of every inch of your saddle so you are covered from all disputes. even take measurements of everything! I am very happy with the result and I will still sell things on ebay but I won't sell anything above $200. Thank you for all of the support on here. It definitely made me fight till the finish!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  3. #63
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    A seller can give a buyer feedback... it can be positive, positive, or positive. A seller can't give anything but positive feedback. No matter how bad a buyer is, the choices a seller has are to give positive feedback or none at all.
    When did they change that?
    That seems horribly unfair (coming from a person who was only a buyer and I still think it is unfair).



  4. #64
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    Thanks!



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    When did they change that?
    That seems horribly unfair (coming from a person who was only a buyer and I still think it is unfair).
    well....its all in HOW you word that buyer feedback..one has to leave a positive.
    One does not have give a glowing transaction review..you can still get your message across. Carefully...big brother is watching...
    the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...pscc2a5330.jpg



  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    When did they change that?
    That seems horribly unfair (coming from a person who was only a buyer and I still think it is unfair).
    That was changed a while back. Not too many sellers about to blab about it openly, that's for sure. I have seen negative comments left as "positive feedback", but not sure how much that is being censored now either...a listing I did recently was "censored" by Ebay for "hostile wording" or some such, forget how they put it, because it would possibly prevent buyers from bidding. Pretty much what I said in my comments was that "all nonpayments will be left appropriate feedback". You can't say "deadbeat bidders" anymore because that too will automatically be filtered out and kick up a screen that prevents you from listing. So they have it designed now so that when you are listing, certain words or phrases will cause their software to not allow you to list until you take them out.

    Finzean, make sure you tell Ebay that this buyer is not willing to share pictures of the damage with you. They should know that.



  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    When did they change that?
    That seems horribly unfair (coming from a person who was only a buyer and I still think it is unfair).
    It's been that way for quite a few years (5+) The change was because most buyers receive negative feedback for giving negative feedback (in other words, most sellers "punish" buyers for giving negative seller feedback by giving them negative buyer feedback) and ebay worried that buyers were therefore unable to give honest feedback.



    I understand why ebay operates the way it does. Forcing buyers to keep items that they feel were misrepresented would be a disaster (can you imagine getting a damaged/misrepresented 3K saddle and having ebay tell you tough luck?) Really all they can do is reverse the transaction.

    But they do need to be more open about these policies, so nobody feels blind sided. They let sellers believe that they can say "final sale," when really there is no ebay final sale. That's not fair to sellers.

    IME they are pretty good about refunding both people when things get ugly/fraudulent (someone returns a damaged item or an empty box), but if they were more honest and upfront that this isn't a place for final sale items it would save everyone a lot of heartburn.



  8. #68
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    I had a buyer stab me with 'not as described' after receiving a leather covered portfolio in the mail. She claimed it was vinyl. I knew it was real leather as I had chopped up the hide. I even sent her the link to the Ebay leather seller and the link to the actual hide purchase. Nope. I was trying to cheat her. I offered to refund her (easiest when dealing with unreasonable wackjobs) and she must return the book. No-return shipping is not included unless I screwed up. Ebay's rules. You send it back..you get a refund original money sent.

    Somehow she actually got the refund including original shipping in her account-and she had not yet returned the book. NOW....she demands if I want the book back I send her the cash for shipping. Things got nasty..then she wanted twice the shipping cost to send it back.
    I got Ebay involved after she threatened me with neg retaliatory feedback if I didn't pay her. Ebay actually paid for her to send me my book back. And then gave her a warning. They went back over every single contact and email between us. Gotta love a paper trail...and yes. Her written feedback reflected my deep displeasure with that particular buyer and her ethics.

    Jingling your return is successful..
    the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...pscc2a5330.jpg


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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyTuesday View Post
    I have seen negative comments left as "positive feedback", but not sure how much that is being censored now either..
    Technically it is against their policy, if the buyer asks for it to be removed ebay will remove it. Ebay also claims they can suspend your account, though I doubt they'd do that for your first offense--they want your fees and all



  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    When did they change that?
    That seems horribly unfair (coming from a person who was only a buyer and I still think it is unfair).
    Feels like years ago to me?! But it just might feel that way. 2008/2009ish?! Maybe?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  11. #71
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    About a year ago I sold a brand new Samsung Gallaxy S4 phone on eBay. The thing was in great shape but I wasn't able to use it on my plan without going into a contract data plan so I wasn't going to keep it. The guy who purchased it claimed he wasn't able to get it activated. I advised him to take it to the verizon store and have one of the associates help him. I am not Verizon tech support and activation is outside my role as a seller. A few days later, he says the microphone doesn't work and people can't hear him. I told him that this phone has a background noise cancelling microphone and he may come up faint sounding if he's calling in an area that's noisy as the microphone works to filter out the background. I showed him how to turn this feature off. He then claims that the phone is just too advanced/confusing and doesn't work right so he wants to return it. He filed an "Item not as described" dispute and eBay immediately recovered the funds from my paypal account and refunded his money. He was advised to return the phone but never did. I had to wait 45 days to be able to contact eBay and have the money returned to me because he never returned the item.

    eBay actually refunded me the money while the buyer got to keep both the phone and his original payment. He was a total scammer and it wouldn't surprise me there are others out there doing the same thing - using eBay's new rules to cheat the system. I personally won't sell on eBay anymore. It's craigslist for me - but even that has it's limits. I've learned that I need to require phone calls only - no emails, no text messages. Anyone who is really serious can pick up the phone and call. I will not deliver or make arrangements to deliver until you put forth the effort to come out and see the item. I have had people come out to the house but I always have a gun in plain sight hanging in the breezeway by the front door and a rather intimidating large dog. So go ahead and mess with me... I dare you. ;-) And for those who call, make arrangements to come out and get something, then don't show and call back, make arrangements again and don't show, then call back to set up another time, etc. I just stop taking their calls. Not to be mean or anything, but get your shiznit together people!


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  12. #72
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    So I just got back from a mission trip to Honduras to find my saddle returned - in PERFECT condition. Thank God the Buyer did not damage the saddle to "prove" the damage she was alleging. As predicted, the case was decided in the Buyer's favor. (According to eBay, she never provided any photos of the alleged damage, nor was she asked to - big surprise there. UGH.)

    As far as the case being decided in her favor...well, I contacted eBay and filed a complaint against her and appealed their decision. They have refunded all the selling fees, removed the mark against my seller rating, and also refunded the amount of money I had to pay to ship the saddle to The Upstate Liar in the first place. As I have the saddle and it's exactly as I sent it, of course, I have to refund the remaining monies.

    What is interesting, however, is that the agent I spoke with was American and she assured me after looking at all the case details, that had an American agent looked at this case, I would not be looking at this saddle...she said an American agent would have immediately seen this for what it was and found in MY favor. They would have told the Upstate Liar that buyer's remorse wasn't a legitimate reason to expect a return and she wouldn't have been refunded. Since I wasn't here when the case was decided I couldn't ask for an American agent...who knew that was even possible.

    The agent was VERY helpful and though it is HIGHLY unlikely I will EVER do business on eBay unless the policies change, I appreciate that someone with common sense works there. I do feel for anyone else who gets sucked into a Saddle Nightmare with The Upstate Liar...I don't think my situation with her was her first (she was too quick to jump to eBay's system to get her way) and I don't think it will be her last. She's got a tricky to fit horse and isn't looking to spend much money. I see a string of buy, try, and returns happening with her...I just hope legitimate, honest horse folks trying to sell a saddle don't get trapped by her.


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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    What is interesting, however, is that the agent I spoke with was American and she assured me after looking at all the case details, that had an American agent looked at this case, I would not be looking at this saddle...she said an American agent would have immediately seen this for what it was and found in MY favor. They would have told the Upstate Liar that buyer's remorse wasn't a legitimate reason to expect a return and she wouldn't have been refunded. Since I wasn't here when the case was decided I couldn't ask for an American agent...who knew that was even possible.
    I wouldn't.
    Had you asked, the liar may actually have damaged the saddle to prove her case, and provided pictures. Then you'd have a lost case and a damaged saddle.
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia



  14. #74
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    I want to think a US agent would have decided the case based on logic. I actually think the appellate people are told to tell users anything under the sun to make them feel better and to throw whatever refund out it takes to make it go away.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    I want to think a US agent would have decided the case based on logic. I actually think the appellate people are told to tell users anything under the sun to make them feel better and to throw whatever refund out it takes to make it go away.
    I don't doubt that. The lady I spoke with was American - Amanda...very helpful & informative conversation. But...truth is, had the buyer not immediately gone to eBay, and asked me if she could return the saddle less my shipping & seller fees, I would have likely complied with a reminder to her that she should make sure she knows what's what with an auction before bidding. Her reaction with the lies...ugh...but I'm getting off the dead horse instead of beating it.

    Anyway - I'm glad it's over for the most part. Best wishes to those who continue to trade on eBay. I'm headed to So. Pines with saddles & the rest of the tack room clean out this Friday. The folks at Barn Door Consignment have earned my trust through previous consignments and we're headed for a show in Pinehurst this weekend so justifying the drive to Hubby isn't an issue.



  16. #76
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    So glad to hear the saddle came back in good condition and you got your shipping fee back. What a relief! So sorry you had to go through all that drama though.

    What really bothers me about eBay is that they ALWAYS find for the buyer, and yet continue to spew this sort of BS to sellers (oh, a different agent would have found differently, it was a really close call and you lost on a technicality, whatever) instead of just admitting up front that ALL ITEMS ARE RETURNABLE and letting sellers decide if they want to sell under those terms.

    I get *why* they can't force buyers to keep items, but I wish they would just admit it upfront.

    I do think they are very good about refunding shipping, all around, just to make people happy. (she probably got refunded for both directions too).

    Hope you sell it easily, elsewhere!



  17. #77
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    Jan. 30, 2000
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    I, too, had a buyer do this to me with a breastplate/martingale. They claimed it broken (it had attachments, so they were sent loose). I even sent photos to Ebay showing it was NOT broken at all.
    I still had to refund price and shipping.
    That was 4 years ago and I have not sold any tack on Ebay since.
    Proud to have two Takaupa Gold line POAs!
    Takaupas Top Gold
    Gifts Black Gold Knight



  18. #78
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    Ugh...you all are making me worried. I just sold a saddle on eBay and have yet to receive payment. Today is the first day that eBay considers the payment to be "overdue", so I'm getting ready to send the buyer a message. Hopefully I have a better result than some of these stories...



  19. #79
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    I haven't had time to read this entire thread, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question or has otherwise been addressed. I mainly only buy on Ebay, and have intermittently over the years. However, my best friend is a big time seller and buyer, so I hear the occasional horror story from her. She always ALWAYS goes through PayPal, NOT Ebay with issues she has--is this what you did as well? Usually if you've documented things properly with photos and so on, they will rule in your favor. In a situation like the OP's, they most certainly would have closed the buyer's case and told them to forget about it, since the OP had extensive photographic evidence of what the saddle looked like before it was shipped.



  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    I haven't had time to read this entire thread, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question or has otherwise been addressed. I mainly only buy on Ebay, and have intermittently over the years. However, my best friend is a big time seller and buyer, so I hear the occasional horror story from her. She always ALWAYS goes through PayPal, NOT Ebay with issues she has--is this what you did as well? Usually if you've documented things properly with photos and so on, they will rule in your favor. In a situation like the OP's, they most certainly would have closed the buyer's case and told them to forget about it, since the OP had extensive photographic evidence of what the saddle looked like before it was shipped.
    Paypal and ebay are affiliated companies and the system is set up to make it impossible to bypass layers of the system ( i.e. bypassing ebay to dispute thru paypal). You can only dispute thru paypal directly non ebay related transactions.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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