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  1. #1
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    Mar. 2, 2007
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    Default Who pays for show fees?

    I'm lending my nice young TB mare to another rider at my barn this summer to ride a couple of times a week and show at our local recognized show series. The mare and I were Intro series champions last year and I have done virtually all the dressage training on her. I have fear issues at the canter on her, since she has a big, unbalanced canter. It's not that I am not capable of doing it (I know I am) but the fear gets in the way. The mare is extremely well behaved, including at shows. I wanted a less scaredy-cat rider to get the mare's canter going but, aside from that, I am more than ready to move up to Training and did the level a few years ago with a BTDT horse. The show rider is braver and more proficient than me and is further along in dressage but not by a huge amount.

    The time comes to pay the show fees, which I assumed the rider would pay. The mare is really nice (much nicer gaits than the other horse the rider would have access to--they came in pretty low in the rankings at Training Level last year). Apparently, she assumed I would pay all the fees. I have compromised at half and half. Needless to say, I pay all the other expenses for the mare (including Coggins, etc.).

    If this horse were a terribly behaved three or four year old and I was terrified to ride her at a show and/or the other rider was going to put some incredible schooling on her, I would be glad to pay all her bills.

    What do you think? Who should be paying? Or do we have it right: half and half?



  2. #2
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    Apr. 28, 2004
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    Saratoga Springs, NY
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    Default

    Sounds like you have it right. Both of you benefit by the mare getting out and about and getting the experience.
    Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
    www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2003
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    MA
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    Default

    This is a matter of negotiation--there is no rule. You should have worked this out in advance.

    It is not uncommon in these sorts of situations where you think that you are doing her a favor and she thinks that she is doing you a favor.

    Considering the fact that if she didn't do it, then you would have had to pay a trainer to show the mare for you, in my opinion, she has the better argument.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    8 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Default

    I agree with the above posters. It sounds like you are getting benefit from this so I can totally see where the rider is coming from.

    I think the 50/50 split is fair.

    The fact that you pay the rest of the expenses is some what a moot point. You own the horse and you would be paying those expenses no matter what.

    You have someone taking your horse to shows that you admit you are nervous to do and this person is giving your horse miles for you. That is worth something.
    Last edited by trubandloki; Jun. 18, 2013 at 01:32 PM. Reason: fix my crappy English that was pointed out by Eclectic Horseman


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  5. #5
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    Jul. 14, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I
    The fact that you pay the rest of the expenses is some what a mute point.
    That would be a MOOT point. Sorry, pet peeve. Carry on.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesper Sparrow View Post
    If this horse were a terribly behaved three or four year old and I was terrified to ride her at a show and/or the other rider was going to put some incredible schooling on her, I would be glad to pay all her bills.
    IMO, you need to pay. What difference does it make whether this horse scares you, is a green horse that would scare anyone or a real rogue? If you can't ride it, you are up a creek without a paddle.

    Or, if you think you can do this all yourself, why not put your money into lessons or taking the horse to shows to school or whatever?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
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    594

    Default

    I kind of feel like whoever's idea it is to show is who should pay for it. Like if you asked her to ride your horse at the show, you should pay. If she asked you if she could ride your horse at the show, she should pay. Somebody at some point had to have come up with this idea in the first place, right? JMO.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2012
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
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    Default

    Hmm, what about a lease situation? I may be leasing a pretty green horse this summer. His owner hasn't ridden him in over a year. I was going to take him to a few schooling shows that I wouldn't otherwise go to if he was a more experienced horse. Should I be asking his owner to pay part of his show expenses?
    "A good man will take care of his horses and dogs, not only while they are young, but also when they are old and past service." Plutarch



  9. #9
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    That would be a MOOT point. Sorry, pet peeve. Carry on.
    Fixed, sorry.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Lightbulb Muzzle your Fear Bird!

    I think you should go read the posts on "I put muzzle on the Fear Bird" thread and show her yourself!

    On a more serious note, sharing the expenses sounds fair as long as you are doing her a favor as well...


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  11. #11
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    Jul. 14, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SomedaySoon View Post
    Hmm, what about a lease situation? I may be leasing a pretty green horse this summer. His owner hasn't ridden him in over a year. I was going to take him to a few schooling shows that I wouldn't otherwise go to if he was a more experienced horse. Should I be asking his owner to pay part of his show expenses?
    Is this a rhetorical question? As I said above, everything is negotiable, there is no rule and things should be worked out in advance to avoid misunderstandings.

    Why don't you just lease a horse that is more experienced so that you can show at the level that you want?

    My guess is that your answer will be something like this is cheaper or more convenient or you are doing her a favor. Well, why don't you ask the owner whether the owner wants the horse to be shown and, if so, is she willing to pay the show fees and expenses? If the owner doesn't care, or isn't willing to pay the fees, then it is totally up to you. But don't just go ahead and show and expect her to pay for it.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SomedaySoon View Post
    Hmm, what about a lease situation? I may be leasing a pretty green horse this summer. His owner hasn't ridden him in over a year. I was going to take him to a few schooling shows that I wouldn't otherwise go to if he was a more experienced horse. Should I be asking his owner to pay part of his show expenses?
    You can ask. But if the HO doesn't care about getting her horse show mileage, you need to be prepared for her to say no.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2012
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    Default

    I've been in both situations. Where I've leased the horse, I paid for the show fees. My horse now is currently being leased and I exclusively said that I would only pay for her vet bills and insurance, that's it. Farrier and anything extra is on those leasing her.

    On the other hand, I was riding a horse as a working student type of deal two summers ago. That mare was a fiesty little 4 year old and the owner couldn't really do much of her early riding. I was willing and able, so to get her show experience, I was the one on her. The owner paid everything because if it was not for me donig a service for her, I would not have been at the shows.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2001
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    Cambridge, IA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    That would be a MOOT point. Sorry, pet peeve. Carry on.
    Ha ha, me too, but I let it slide in my little brain by thinking that a moot point would be mute, in that it communicates nothing. I have to do this or my head explodes. Maybe it will help you too, EH. <Sorry for the sidebar, all>


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  15. #15
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    Mar. 2, 2007
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    Default

    I actually hope to show her in Training at schooling shows by the end of the summer, where my trainer can hold my hand and talk me through it. I do take a couple of lessons on the mare a week. I would show her Intro again this year but I am bored stiff with it and it doesn't seem fair to the other competitors, since I won the championship last year with her.

    The cost-benefit analysis I see doesn't have so much to do with show miles (I have showed her for two years, the mare has a great brain and is really good at shows, has been foxhunted extensively, etc.). The benefit to me is that the other person gets her going well at the canter and the benefit and incentive for her is that she gets to show a really nice horse and hopefully do well on her.

    Anyway, the deal has been struck, I just wanted to know what other people think.



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winding Down View Post
    I think you should go read the posts on "I put muzzle on the Fear Bird" thread and show her yourself!
    Great title for a thread!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesper Sparrow View Post
    she has a big, unbalanced canter. It's not that I am not capable of doing it (I know I am) but the fear gets in the way. The mare is extremely well behaved, including at shows. I wanted a less scaredy-cat rider to get the mare's canter going but, aside from that, I am more than ready to move up to Training and did the level a few years ago with a BTDT horse. The show rider is braver and more proficient than me and is further along in dressage but not by a huge amount.

    The mare is really nice I pay all the other expenses for the mare (including Coggins, etc.).

    Or do we have it right: half and half?
    If you're happy with the half & half, then continue with that.

    It doesn't sound to me as if the other rider is actually providing training rides to the horse, so she is getting to ride a "really nice" horse for free - based upon this, I'd not think it out of line for her to pay for her classes, both of you pay show expenses i.e. shipping, stabling, admin fees.
    If you're already hauling the horse yourself, I'd expect the rider to pay fuel costs.

    If you & rider are not on the same page re sharing costs, then consider what you would pay in training fees etc & how that would compare to what this rider is able to contribute - just sitting an unbalanced canter is not the same as developing that canter.



  18. #18
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    Nov. 7, 2002
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    Central FL
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    Default

    In a similar situation recently with a working-student-type, I wrote up an agreement before the show outlining what I would pay for. I'm pretty sure that I asked if she wanted to show the horse, so I was okay with paying for everything, tho we shared trailering costs. If I had shown during the same activity (original plan was for us to do two tests--she'd do 1st level and I'd do tr-3, but for some reason I scratched* ...)

    If I had ridden and she coached, I would have paid her a small sum for her time and expertise.


    *oh, that's right. tension problem (mine)
    *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
    Dressage becomes art when it is a joy for the horse. -KBH

    Mighty Thoroughbred Clique Now on Facebook ... ... show the loff



  19. #19
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    Who asked to show her? Did you ask the girl if she wanted to or did she ask you if she could?

    If you asked then I think it would be fair she assumed you would pay.

    If she asked, and you don't care if the mare canters at a show or not, then she should pay.
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  20. #20
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Default

    Sounds like you wanted the mare shown. Normally you'd pay the fees. Now, it turns out she's nice. Benefit to the rider. But the rider didn't ask YOU if she could show your horse. YOU asked her. You pay. 50/50 is better than I'd expect in your shoes. Sounds like the rider is a nice person and isn't just in it for the ribbons but also appreciates the situation and does want to help get this mare going for you. Appreciate that!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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