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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I have 4 grandchildren and you couldn't pay me to ride XC like that
    I understand that, and am also not a fan of the exaggerated pose. My point is that showing a hunter was/is supposed to be about appearance, i.e., showing the horse at its very best so that it looks easy, like a granny could ride. Every stride the same, brilliant jump, etc., and made to look as if the rider has to do nothing in order to attain that appearance. It's actually a really difficult thing to pull off that I think people fail to appreciate until they've tried it.

    With that said, I don't think anyone's arguing that you *should* ride that way in the field.
    "I was walking through the woods, thinking about Christ. If He was a carpenter, I wondered what He charged for bookshelves."


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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMorgan View Post
    I understand that, and am also not a fan of the exaggerated pose. My point is that showing a hunter was/is supposed to be about appearance, i.e., showing the horse at its very best so that it looks easy, like a granny could ride. Every stride the same, brilliant jump, etc., and made to look as if the rider has to do nothing in order to attain that appearance. It's actually a really difficult thing to pull off that I think people fail to appreciate until they've tried it.

    With that said, I don't think anyone's arguing that you *should* ride that way in the field.
    Maybe you need to drop the term "granny"
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Maybe you need to drop the term "granny"
    I didn't use it pejoratively.
    "I was walking through the woods, thinking about Christ. If He was a carpenter, I wondered what He charged for bookshelves."



  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMorgan View Post
    I didn't use it pejoratively.
    It depends on your perspective I suppose.
    Granny=less than capable rider
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  5. #65
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    I always thought it was to over-accentuate how much the horse is doing on his own or how powerful his jump is (e.g. "look, I can just throw him away!" or "look, I have to throw myself at his head to not hit him in the mouth!")
    *CrowneDragon*
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66

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    Maybe the laying on the neck was a precursor to the planking fad.
    Sincerely,
    The Wannabe Hunter Princess


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    In the sidebar to this thread there is a slidehow of photos and shows interesting styles over fences....some older in black and white.

    A flip through GM's book Hunter seat Equitation shows his old style, and it is less extreme than the styles shown in the hunter ring today.

    The riders who ride with this style are on polished show horses, it is not a style I would use starting a green or inexperienced horse who may stop, shy, or trip.

    My eye is so tuned to a ride that is secure in the tack that I have had trouble adapting to the butt high style...but there are so few ooopsies in the ring.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Default Hear, hear!

    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    I think you make a good point, but your reasoning is a little flawed. Horse people in the US are far too cliquish and tend to do their own thing far away from the scrutiny of, not just the public, but of their own peers in other disciplines. No one attends our horse shows unless they are actually participating. We make absolutely no effort to include the general public. In general, most horse people here have nothing but disdain for non-horse people. It's very sad. We are losing trail access because of our seclusion. We will lose more trails, and even venues to show our horses, in the future if this trend doesn't change.

    There, a little self-criticism for breakfast.

    On the good side, there are a few out there that hold horse shows in conjunction with other events and get outsiders to attend and therefore CARE about horses. We NEED the public to care about horses or they will cut us off. Many of us try very hard to be ambassadors everywhere we go. I carry extra treats with me on public trails to give out for people (usually kids) who want to feed my horse. I even have a horse gentle enough that I do therapy visits with him. I didn't start out with horses friendly enough for the public to interact with, I demanded that they be polite and have good ground manners around everyone, but especially when I was in the saddle. They are taught to stand still and be polite. Once the treats start happening from strangers, they really shape right up. My current horse even slows down to a walk automatically when he sees us approach a pedestrian (which you are supposed to do anyway). Every horse I've ever owned could be at least fed treats by someone else. Too many times, we make fun of people who don't know our language or fail to understand our type of riding. We need to swallow our pride and patiently answer questions and gently correct any misconceptions people have about horses or disciplines. We all need to clean up our collective act in horse shows and not be so defensive when something is pointed out by an "outsider" who competes in a different discipline.
    I consider myself an ambassador for the sport. Just the other day my riding buddy and I were on a local public trail with all manner of folk. We spent 20 minutes or so riding with a group on foot who were very curious about the horses and asked all kinds of questions. I was riding the pony in my galloping saddle because he's a bit wide right now for his hunting saddle, and the gentlemen were asking about the tack and about when you would use a second girth because they had seen that. It was a great conversation and everyone (hopefully) learned a little bit.


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  9. #69
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    Jetjocky, that's great! If we can get show attendance up and build bridges with non horsey folks, we'll be much better off in the future as more growth encroaches and more people live closer to our horses.
    Where the short cows roam.

    War veteran


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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint Julep View Post
    Maybe the laying on the neck was a precursor to the planking fad.
    Sincerely,
    The Wannabe Hunter Princess
    What's Planking??
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    What's Planking??
    The fad of laying down, on ground or other places, stiff as a board or a plank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  12. #72
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    considering what "Hunters" have become one has to wonder how it got there.
    Excellent photos in George Morris' thing. Pictures of how "Hunters " should be and once were.
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/George-r...storic-hunters
    ( for those who do not see the link to the right.)

    What we now call " High Profomance ( I know the spelling of the word is incorrect no need to point it out) hunters" used to be "regular working" Or Open working depending on height of jumps you wanted. I seem to recall that Regular working were set at 3'9" maybe 4' and Open were set at 4' or higher. Someone correct me if I am wrong on heights.

    But this is getting into a rant... so will not go there or do it..
    Friend of bar .ka


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  13. #73
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    In honesty, I have asked the same question as the OP of my show hunter friends because the exaggerated pose seen in many photos in CoTH just looks so dangerous to an eventer. And I got many of the answers given in this thread (although a lot less snark ).

    However, I have observed that with the popularity of the hunter derby classes, the position is becoming less extreme (again, judging by CoTH photos). It will be interesting to see if this is a trend.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugalannie View Post
    the exaggerated pose seen in many photos in CoTH just looks so dangerous to an eventer.
    Kind of like was pointed out so well earlier in the thread, different goals.

    I admit my first thought when looking at the photos described as great that my eventer friends post is - OMFG you are ripping that horses mouth off and are way behind the motion.

    I would never say this because after my first internal reaction I remind myself that they are totally different sports and have a different way of doing things. Like so many aspects of life, different is not wrong just different.


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  15. #75
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    "Kind of like was pointed out so well earlier in the thread, different goals."

    Agreed, but safety is always a goal, and it's just a matter of wrapping my little eventing brain around the concept that in the show ring that position isn't unsafe because the terrain is flat, and the horses never stop or stumble.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    I adore the hunters, not so much the butt to the sky, crotch ahead of the pommel style. But eventers could not get away with that because of the territory they ride over and the need for a form to function style of being firm in the tack, in case of pecks, or drops, etc.
    When my brother took a riding vacation in Ireland, they did a little jumping (it was the trail trek, not a hunting trip) and Willy Leahy told him regarding jumping that you can't use that "American" jump seat (ie the very forward, two-point based one; I don't think he even meant the duck butt) as you'd get dumped. I had wondered about the "strange" far-back position I've seen on film of Irish hunters but on thinking it made sense. I've never jumped anywhere but a flat raked arena or at most a log on a trail or hay bales. Over rougher country and more creative obstacles, yeah, I might not want to be that up on the neck.


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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMorgan View Post
    I understand that, and am also not a fan of the exaggerated pose. My point is that showing a hunter was/is supposed to be about appearance, i.e., showing the horse at its very best so that it looks easy, like a granny could ride. Every stride the same, brilliant jump, etc., and made to look as if the rider has to do nothing in order to attain that appearance. It's actually a really difficult thing to pull off that I think people fail to appreciate until they've tried it.

    With that said, I don't think anyone's arguing that you *should* ride that way in the field.
    The rider pose aside, everyone *should* try to put in that tactful, minimalist ride outside the hunter ring. Too bad the value of that ride gets lost in the bling and posing of modern hunter world.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugalannie View Post
    Agreed, but safety is always a goal, and it's just a matter of wrapping my little eventing brain around the concept that in the show ring that position isn't unsafe because the terrain is flat, and the horses never stop or stumble.
    To me getting majorly left behind and doing the sling shot thing over the top of a jump is not overly safe either. But it happens (from what I saw at the last event I went to, quite frequently in the stadium rounds because everyone is riding behind the motion).


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  19. #79
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    Actually, I don't see the riding behind the motion - just not leaping ahead of the motion in show jumping. Over drops, the rider does sit up somewhat -

    It will be interesting, also, to see how the derby rides will develop.

    A secure seat can take a rider anywhere - as seen in recent military posts by Mike Matson!

    Considering the horses that are being bred today, and the ones that make it into the top hunters, one can argue that it is not necessary to show the horse like that as it shows itself very nicely. Cor de la Breyer did the hunters a very big favour.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


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  20. #80
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