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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2011
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    Default Disconnect?

    This is a bit of a spin-off of a comment or two from other threads...

    I've been hearing the last few years about the great need for young horse (dressage) trainers in this country. However, I've noticed that capable and talented trainers with young horses, not yet BNTs, have been having a hard time getting their young horse(s) "out there". This is not to say anything against anyone, and I would really like to refrain from USEF and BNT bashing or anything of the like on this thread

    So, as a trainer with an affinity and, well, talent, for young horses, I've been paying attention. It seems that when those of us who feel that young horses are our bread and butter, or where we would like our bread and butter to be, don't have barns full of young horses. It seems, that for all of the talk about needing young horse trainers in this country, that we don't actually have the young horses for these trainers that we so desperately need. I brought this up to a BNT within the committees and whatnot and they wholeheartedly agreed. It almost seems that this so-called disconnect between breeders and young horse trainers doesn't actually exist.

    Breeders, what do you think about this? Do you feel that we don't have quality trainers and we need them, or do you think that we just aren't breeding enough to really need them? Is the disconnect real? Like I said, not wanting to bash anyone or offend anyone, just wondering about things!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
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    Charles Town, WV
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    Default

    One of the problems I've seen is that these 'up and coming', but not yet BNT or for most nowhere near BNT are trying to charge BNT or almost BNT prices. Uh uh. Not happenin'.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!


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  3. #3
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Canada
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    Default

    Yes, I sure do think there is a disconnect. Breeders need to become much more aware of the time in which it takes to correctly and appropriately develop a young dressage horse. Obviously there are lots of breeders who do "get it" but I think there are still too many that do not.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


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  4. #4

    Default

    I get it...but, I'm a small breeder. Money is an issue. I'd love to sell my horses as weanlings, but it doesn't happen. Paying board and training fees for 4-6 months, that's a lot of dollars. Sure, I love hearing the stories of 60 days, but most buyers are amateurs that can't bring a young horse along.....skills aren't what they used to be. Warmbloods have power.

    Having said this, I have a great young horse trainer. Started out as straight 10% purchase price, now I'm breeding for her and trading. It's the only way I can do it. You can't eat the cost of breeding /vet/farrier/feed/bedding fees for three years and then have someone put 60 days on them and think everyone walks away happy with a profit. Seriously, it just doesn't work that way.

    I send my young prospects to the trainer and they are good. They've been handled, blanketed, tied, bridled, lead, trailered, in some cases shown on the line and they like people. It's not the wild west. I'll stop there...read into it as you like. But, there are too many "so-called" young horse trainers (some with talent, some not) that feel entitled to profit for very little work. Yes, there are some excellent young horse trainers out there, but they are few and far between.

    I'm fortunate, no doubt about it. I got a good one. We built our relationship. We both worked at it. It's taken years, I'm good to her, she is good to me. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on, the work is HARD.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2004
    Location
    The Redneck Riviera
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    3,827

    Default

    I guess I'm just very lucky - I have 3 local (isn) trainers to me who I've sent youngsters to. None of them are "big names" per se, although all three have credentials in their respective disciplines. Two are eventers though, not "dressage" trainers and this is something possibly to consider. I have found that most (read most) event riders that have gone Prelim and above, have a solid enough dressage background and believe in dressage training/basics enough to put the basics on a youngster. They also are EVENTERS. This means that they are pretty bold riders (not much scares them lol), they don't care about outside stimuli that might excite a youngster, and they expose the "kids" to outside stimuli....

    As a quick example - I went up to see two of my kids at Katie's house yesterday. (one she now owns the other is mine). When I got there she had PJ out for ride number 10ish. PJ was a little more "up" than normal at first and Katie was just kind of laughing about it. I asked if she had ever been rode with another horse in the ring? Katie said no and laughed saying she never thinks about things like that.... meanwhile there was a student on a pony walk, trot, cantering, and galloping in the arena also. PJ settled quickly and it was no fuss no muss. These kind of things are important IMO to the development of a youngster. IME, most Event Riders make a point of doing this type of exposure while still doing correct basics as they need those basics in their discipline too .
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  6. #6
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    Aug. 15, 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    Yes, I sure do think there is a disconnect. Breeders need to become much more aware of the time in which it takes to correctly and appropriately develop a young dressage horse. Obviously there are lots of breeders who do "get it" but I think there are still too many that do not.
    I think BUYERS don't get that. They aren't willing to pay the price - too many buyers want a nice, fancy horse that is already showing Training or First Level and will at least be competitive at Regional Championships, and they want to pay $15k to $25k. I'm not talking about international level buyers, I'm talking the average horse owner - including many trainers. So, in that price range, the breeder can count on throwing away $10k every time they put a foal on the ground.


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  7. #7
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Default

    honestly i think prices of everything horse related have gone thru the roof - and i think that the providers that charge these prices are going to find out the hard way that there are not really that many folks that can pay $22/bale for hay, over $100/hr for a lesson, over $600/month for board, etc etc etc.

    slowly and surely the horse world will shrink to those with lots o cash.

    when i see fairly beginner trainers charging more than what my FEI trainer from europe charges - there is a huge problem!

    plus, while there are really good trainers out there - they are rare -

    i dislike wholeheartedly the industrialization of dressage and the horse world in general....

    i wont be able to afford my horses soon and that makes me very sad.


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  8. #8
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Default

    oh! and to answer the OP - the problem i see (beyond the above) is that folks with youngsters want inexpensive training for their babies - but this is the time when it should be a highly experienced rider working them.

    young trainers most likely wont have the needed background to give them the correct foundation to last a lifetime.


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  9. #9
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    Default

    I have never had a good experience sending my horses out for training. For me, won't do it again.



  10. #10
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Canada
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    Default

    Hey, I get that it costs money to put a solid start on them but that is part of owning a young horse if you can't do it yourself. Why should someone else risk life and limb to try and make magic happen in 30 days because someone else wants to save money?? And then the breeders bitch that such people actually charge something to do such a risky job? It is not the trainer's problem that breeding and raising horses costs money, nor is it their responsibility to offset that cost. I understand it is expensive, I am a breeder too.

    And for us a basic but correct start is 90 days. We don't even accept horses for training here unless the owner/breeder is committed to that time frame.

    I think BUYERS don't get that. They aren't willing to pay the price - too many buyers want a nice, fancy horse that is already showing Training or First Level and will at least be competitive at Regional Championships, and they want to pay $15k to $25k.

    Yes, and they will have a hard time finding such a horse. If they do then someone is loosing money. But again, that is not a trainers fault...
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  11. #11
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    Mar. 11, 1999
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    Clayton, CA USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    oh! and to answer the OP - the problem i see (beyond the above) is that folks with youngsters want inexpensive training for their babies - but this is the time when it should be a highly experienced rider working them.

    young trainers most likely wont have the needed background to give them the correct foundation to last a lifetime.
    A little off topic here, but unfortunately even a highly experienced, very expensive trainer may not be the right person to put the first 90 days on a horse. It is very difficult to find a trainer to bring along a young horse. I have visited more than one barn with an expensive upper level rider as the trainer, and seen the babies off in the back with the barn help riding around in draw reins.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com


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  12. #12
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    Default

    A little off topic here, but unfortunately even a highly experienced, very expensive trainer may not be the right person to put the first 90 days on a horse. It is very difficult to find a trainer to bring along a young horse. I have visited more than one barn with an expensive upper level rider as the trainer, and seen the babies off in the back with the barn help riding around in draw reins.

    I agree. There are lots of really excellent FEI level trainers who are totally useless on a young horse.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


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  13. #13
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    Aug. 15, 2011
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    Default

    I think Donella and Clint have a point - many successful FEI trainers are NOT young horse trainers. I think that is why many in the sport here are saying there is a need for true young horse trainers. I just have to wonder sometimes if we really are breeding enough horses (sometimes quality horses - certainly there are quality babies in this country, I just mean are there enough?) to be sending to young horse trainers. And by "young horse trainer" I don't necessarily mean "young" trainer. However, I think if we judge a trainer based on how old or young they are we are being incredibly short-sighted Anyway - another question, if we have the young horses and we have the trainers, how do we connect the two?



  14. #14
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    Apr. 30, 2009
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    Default

    There are lots of trainers but not very many GOOD young horse trainers. Very few actually. Many breeders might not to want to put in 90 days but many owners or breeders do but have trouble finding someone.
    I find that there is a complete lack of professionalism and training in this area. Anyone can be a trainer and the accreditation varies hugely. I would like to see it standardized more and have it more as a profession instead of the free for all it is. As a trainer, I guess, my take home message is that if your industry wants to be recognized more, there should be more accountability as a whole. This is an industry that relies more on gossip and hearsay than actual results (see Gray Fox farms).
    And it isn't even the cost of the monthly training that get most people, it is the cost of your super talented, well bred horse being wrecked that gets many breeders. That is the expensive part.


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