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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Watts View Post

    EPA requires a very extensive program of tests for toxicology and residues for all pesticides to make sure that toxic amounts of pesticides are not possible when labels are followed and post treatment harvest intervals are met. Farmers are very careful to follow labels.
    really.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    really.
    Here's some really boring reading material for you.

    http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/content...m_guide_pkg-en

    Environmental fate stuff here:
    http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/environ...x-oecd-live-02

    Doing field studies on pesticide residues was how I made my living while I was playing around with grass for free. I also acted as Quality Assurance Director for another company doing same kind of studies. Trust me. This is very highly regulated, EPA would spend 3 days at my facility every few years. But since the regulations are really boring, it seems everyone would rather keep reading Silent Spring and get all excited about pesticides that were banned 50 years ago before we had all the science we have know. Drama prevails.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Hence the on my part. But I'd wager non-GMO foods are exposed to more herbicides than GMO ones. The study in question was not one of ORGANIC grains vs. GMO ones but rather "conventionally grown" non-GMO ones vs. GMO.
    That's an excellent question. I'm not sure.
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  4. #24
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    Why would GMO foods need less herbicides? I thought their main attribute was resistance to Roundup?


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  5. #25
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    Fair point! I was thinking about it bass-ackwards.
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie.S View Post
    15% is pretty normal, even lower than a lot of producers experience. They often wean at 2-3 weeks so that they can get litters out of their sows- I guess it must work itself out. But high piglet mortalities are a huge issue in the swine industry with every producer.

    Reason million and one I am a vegetarian. That is heartbreaking and disgusting.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    Reason million and one I am a vegetarian. That is heartbreaking and disgusting.
    I think if you look into it, you will find that there are quite a lot of animals killed on your behalf so you can be vegetarian.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    I think if you look into it, you will find that there are quite a lot of animals killed on your behalf so you can be vegetarian.
    That means, the more vegetables people eat, the more animals have to be killed to help get those crops to their plates.

    There is a reason animal products made our diets more efficient and complete AND gave us more with less.

    As for quality of life of cattle for those few months in a feedlot, well, ask those cattle, that think they are in the Ritz of the cattle world, room and board and congenial friends and nothing to do to earn that = bliss for cattle in that stage of their lives.

    "Unsanitary conditions"?
    Ever look where cattle out in pristine pastures chose to drink and lay down?

    Seriously, there is decades of proper studies on how to insure quality of life for those cattle in pens, all kinds of pen parameters are known for it to be a good place to finish those cattle, for them and for the goals at hand also, of course.

    One of the surprising results was that less than 35 head pens and the cattle were unsettled and not as happy as with more than that or less than 200 per pen.
    That is cattle for you.

    There are many independent university studies and degrees for those that study feedlot management.


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  9. #29
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    Thank goodness there are studies! Because if there are studies then it MUST be true!


    Phew!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    I think if you look into it, you will find that there are quite a lot of animals killed on your behalf so you can be vegetarian.
    Are you joking? I'm really dense about this but open to be educated. How many animals are killed so that I can buy veggies and fruits and grains at Whole Foods and from my local co-op?



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That means, the more vegetables people eat, the more animals have to be killed to help get those crops to their plates.

    There is a reason animal products made our diets more efficient and complete AND gave us more with less.

    As for quality of life of cattle for those few months in a feedlot, well, ask those cattle, that think they are in the Ritz of the cattle world, room and board and congenial friends and nothing to do to earn that = bliss for cattle in that stage of their lives.

    "Unsanitary conditions"?
    Ever look where cattle out in pristine pastures chose to drink and lay down?

    Seriously, there is decades of proper studies on how to insure quality of life for those cattle in pens, all kinds of pen parameters are known for it to be a good place to finish those cattle, for them and for the goals at hand also, of course.

    One of the surprising results was that less than 35 head pens and the cattle were unsettled and not as happy as with more than that or less than 200 per pen.
    That is cattle for you.

    There are many independent university studies and degrees for those that study feedlot management.
    Yeah, the above makes sense. In bizarro world.


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    I think if you look into it, you will find that there are quite a lot of animals killed on your behalf so you can be vegetarian.
    Well, yes, if you eat eggs and dairy. However, if one is vegan, no animals are killed for a vegan diet.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That means, the more vegetables people eat, the more animals have to be killed to help get those crops to their plates.

    There is a reason animal products made our diets more efficient and complete AND gave us more with less.

    As for quality of life of cattle for those few months in a feedlot, well, ask those cattle, that think they are in the Ritz of the cattle world, room and board and congenial friends and nothing to do to earn that = bliss for cattle in that stage of their lives.

    "Unsanitary conditions"?
    Ever look where cattle out in pristine pastures chose to drink and lay down?

    Seriously, there is decades of proper studies on how to insure quality of life for those cattle in pens, all kinds of pen parameters are known for it to be a good place to finish those cattle, for them and for the goals at hand also, of course.

    One of the surprising results was that less than 35 head pens and the cattle were unsettled and not as happy as with more than that or less than 200 per pen.
    That is cattle for you.

    There are many independent university studies and degrees for those that study feedlot management.
    Bluey has jumped the shark.
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  14. #34
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    Maybe Bluey is referring to this?

    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97836&page=1

    (no dog in the fight here and I'm not endorsing the article, really--I'm an omnivore and not emotional about it, and the article may be reaching a bit, but . . .)
    Click here before you buy.



  15. #35
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    From University of Chicago:

    Study: vegan diets healthier for planet, people than meat diets

    http://www-news.uchicago.edu/release...413.diet.shtml
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Well, yes, if you eat eggs and dairy. However, if one is vegan, no animals are killed for a vegan diet.
    Guess you never farmed, so you don't know all that has to be done to protect crops so they make it to harvest and put away, without being a pure smorgasbord spread out for all kinds of critters.

    Those crops are where our vegetables come from.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    From University of Chicago:

    Study: vegan diets healthier for planet, people than meat diets

    http://www-news.uchicago.edu/release...413.diet.shtml
    Really?

    If you pay attention, that was a study in 2006, long ago debunked.

    The original was a study presented to the United Nations right before an important vote, very biased and very poor science, called "livestock's long shadow".

    The United Nations itself apologized for having that one "study" brought into consideration.

    There was so much wrong, you can google again and find what it all was about.

    Next time, do more than google without understanding what you are putting forth as any kind of truth.

    Not that we have not discussed this before, but of course "you forgot" by now.

    No time, got to run, or I would help you find the relevant studies proving those old ones wrong.


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  18. #38
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    Here are more current statistics on this, first link I found:

    http://www.dairyherd.com/dairy-news/...207589951.html

    Then, there is this also, that is so new it has not been "digested" yet thru the scientific community, so the jury is still out on this, but is interesting.
    May end up being a blind alley for more than the specific situation, then it may, as the fellow there thinks, be applicable to many more places.
    That, we do need more to confirm is so:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savor...te_change.html


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    Are you joking? I'm really dense about this but open to be educated. How many animals are killed so that I can buy veggies and fruits and grains at Whole Foods and from my local co-op?
    No I am absolutely NOT joking. Bluey is right. Your fruits and vegetables would never make it to your mouth if someone did not kill insects, small vermin, deer, feral hogs, and that is just in the field. Once you store things you have to keep after the insects and rodents. So, on your behalf, MANY animals are killed so you can eat plant material and feel morally superior.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Unless you grew your own food or purchased your food from a farmer all using environmentally safe farming practices.

    You guys are going to run into problems if you try to reverse those broad statistical averages and try to apply them as factors of causality at the individual level.

    You can't account for all of the possible individual variations with enough certainty.

    It's like saying individual will has no possibility of influencing the greater whole.

    History has already proven otherwise.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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