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  1. #81
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    401

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    I am late to this party, but there is tons of good advice.

    I show a Perch/TB that I bought as a PMU foal when he was a few days old. I had the privilege of seeing his parents and I fell in love with his face. He is now 16 hands and 10 years old and we are getting ready to make our third level debut this summer. I have done all of his training myself, including changes, and he would be a lot further along if it weren't for me, lol.

    He is not a HUGE mover, but is short backed and short crouped and has talent for collection. Clinicians are always quite shocked to see him go. He has shown successfully through 2-3, conisitantly scoring in the mid to high 60's.

    The best thing about him? He is just about the best friend a girl could have. Fun, smart, friendly. He is trail safe, I ride him bareback in a halter and lead rope all over the farm. If I lost interest in showing, he would still be the horse of my dreams. He may not be a fancy warmblood, but there is something to be said to be able to load up and go to a show by myself and have fun...not worry about being dumped.

    Temperment, fun, trainability all go a long long way. If you are thinking this horse is going to be fun for you and the thought of working with her and riding her make you excited, go for it!!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82

    Default Sidebar: oooh! From which farm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckham03 View Post
    I am late to this party, but there is tons of good advice.

    I show a Perch/TB that I bought as a PMU foal when he was a few days old. I had the privilege of seeing his parents and I fell in love with his face. He is now 16 hands and 10 years old and we are getting ready to make our third level debut this summer. I have done all of his training myself, including changes, and he would be a lot further along if it weren't for me, lol.

    He is not a HUGE mover, but is short backed and short crouped and has talent for collection. Clinicians are always quite shocked to see him go. He has shown successfully through 2-3, conisitantly scoring in the mid to high 60's.

    The best thing about him? He is just about the best friend a girl could have. Fun, smart, friendly. He is trail safe, I ride him bareback in a halter and lead rope all over the farm. If I lost interest in showing, he would still be the horse of my dreams. He may not be a fancy warmblood, but there is something to be said to be able to load up and go to a show by myself and have fun...not worry about being dumped.

    Temperment, fun, trainability all go a long long way. If you are thinking this horse is going to be fun for you and the thought of working with her and riding her make you excited, go for it!!
    Sorry for the sidebar conversation...but WOW! What an accomplishment! I'd love to see video of him going!

    I have a 14 y/o also 16 hand TB/Perch PMU baby from Lloyd Cancade - bay with three white socks and a blaze and snip. I don't think that his dam and sire were bred again after the next year; she was bred to a paint after that. He isn't trail safe, nor could I ride him bareback in a halter, but he is still absolutely the horse of my dreams, smart, funny, full of personality and love, and with a very sweet face, too. And we debuted at training level this year after his jumper career for many years. I am very fortunate to have discovered his history, and have communicated with his "moms" from the time of his birth, all of whom adored this horse. What I wouldn't give for baby pics of him .

    Where is your boy from?
    LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...



  3. #83
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
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    1,647

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustABay View Post
    Can I just ask...

    Why do unbroke 3 year olds with some breeding behind them start at 20, 000? Why are started 4 year olds priced at 30k+? Who is buying these horses?! Who can afford to buy these horses?! I've been laughed off the phone by several breeders when I told them what my budget was. I don't understand how these prices are so inflated! It's ridiculous!!
    I am a small breeder - I've dedicated the past 10+ years to trying to provide nice quality horses with good brains for the AA rider at an affordable price. And prior to that, I spent 4 years waiting for my young broodmare prospects to become old enough to breed. I can answer this question, and it makes me sad to say - most breeders are subsidizing riders and trainers

    So, consider the basic costs - ignore the fact that I bought young broodmare prospects and spent 3 or 4 years feeding and taking care of them, although that in itself was a $$$ output.

    So, breeding a mare - I have stud fee, shipping costs, vet insemination costs, pregnancy checks, figure that is about $3,000 assuming mare is having an easy, very fertile year. Then the mare spends 11 months eating and having hooves trimmed and basic shots and upkeep - figure about $2,500 assuming nothing goes wrong. There are some increased nutrition needs for a broodmare, in case you think that is high. So far, I have no foal on the ground.

    Baby is born - assuming nothing goes wrong - we still have well-foal exam, and now mare has much higher nutrition needs - I actually scheduled it out for my vet this year, since she bred a mare - over $200/month, plus farrier care. I wean around 5 or 6 months old - now baby needs feed and farrier care for the next 3 years - and baby nutrition is not cheap - they need more feed, ration balancers, and regular hoof care, plus foal shots. AND we are assuming nothing major goes wrong - baby will still have minor injuries along the way - an eye ulcer, stitches, something - because foals do spend their first 3 years trying to kill themselves! So assuming no major vet bills, I'm still feeding a growing youngster, figure $200/month for feed and farrier (that is $7,200 for 3 years). And basic vet care - shots (they need a whole series as young horses then annual boosters) and figure at least a few minor repairs for normal baby stuff - so another $2,000 for vet care.

    Baby needs to be inspected and registered - that is about a $500 investment, mare dues, inspection and registration fees, stall fee, etc.

    So baby is ready to start under saddle and I'm already out over $15,000 assuming nothing goes wrong! And if something does go wrong

    Now my 3 year old needs at least 6 months of pro training before I can advertise him as a W/T/C horse - and at least a year if he is advertised as "ready to show First Level". We all know training isn't cheap - $1,000 to $1,500/month - sounds about right for full training? My green horse is already costing me $24,000 to $30,000 and I haven't paid for my broodmares, my pasture fencing, my barn, etc. Oh, or feed for myself! So I work part time off the ranch so I can eat

    Then buyers want a horse with show experience - so now I'm paying show fees and hauling the young prospects around to shows - and we all know that isn't free.

    And I'm low budget - if you want to buy from a big breeder w/ a fancy facility and staff to keep those horses braided and groomed - you better add another $5,000 to $15,000 to the price.

    Reality is - owning a dressage horse is expensive. Participating in this sport is expensive. Training is expensive. Showing is expensive. Raising a young sport horse is expensive. Hay prices are at an all time high, trainers continue to raise their rates, vets are expensive, yet horse prices are actually down and broodmares are a non-market. I don't have any answers, just a reality check. OTOH - compare us to the Hunter market - and we look downright cheap. Look at the breeding forum - there is a thread on "what does $350,000 buy you" in the hunter market.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Posts
    401

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    Quote Originally Posted by right horse at the right time View Post
    Sorry for the sidebar conversation...but WOW! What an accomplishment! I'd love to see video of him going!

    I have a 14 y/o also 16 hand TB/Perch PMU baby from Lloyd Cancade - bay with three white socks and a blaze and snip. I don't think that his dam and sire were bred again after the next year; she was bred to a paint after that. He isn't trail safe, nor could I ride him bareback in a halter, but he is still absolutely the horse of my dreams, smart, funny, full of personality and love, and with a very sweet face, too. And we debuted at training level this year after his jumper career for many years. I am very fortunate to have discovered his history, and have communicated with his "moms" from the time of his birth, all of whom adored this horse. What I wouldn't give for baby pics of him .

    Where is your boy from?
    I sent you a PM!!! (As to not hijack thread...)



  5. #85
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2007
    Posts
    814

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    Well this time I listened

    As hard as it was to walk away from the lovely mare, I did.


    ...And I went and bought myself another one from the same breeder! Very sweet gelding, different breeding and is absolutely gorgeous. Much better movement, great brain and a very cute little package. My trainer loves him and so do I - and I'm beyond happy as he is JUST what I wanted.

    Now all I need is a show name for him... hint hint


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86

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    Yay!!!!! We need pics and video before we can give names!!
    LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    5,904

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    Congratulations! I think nearly every breed/combination of breeds has some members who are suited for moving up the levels in dressage. I'm glad you found one who it sounds like is more suited!
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,574

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustABay View Post

    Now all I need is a show name for him... hint hint
    Hah! you get NOTHING until we see photo & video evidence
    (& breeder photos do NOT count)



  9. #89
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2011
    Posts
    540

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    [QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7027526]On a budget, you get to pick 2 between brains, soundness, training, and fanciness. You can't have it all on a budget. Unless you have plans to go FEI soon, pick brains and soundness. An average mover that is pleasant, smart, and sweet will get you a LOT further and be a lot more fun than a fancy horse with an unpleasant/nasty/overreactive/lazy attitude or soundness issues.

    THIS for sure.
    I have a draft x with a fantastic work ethic! She has straightish back legs and a shorter neck, but these challenges make me a better trainer and the fact that I can ride her after a two week lay off with no lunging or fear of crazy horse syndrome more than make up for confo faults.

    Her movement is good enough, and with training can be improved. Is she Grande Prix material, not a chance but then honestly I know that is not in my life plan anyway. My dreams maybe....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    12,617

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustABay View Post
    Why do unbroke 3 year olds with some breeding behind them start at 20, 000? Why are started 4 year olds priced at 30k+? Who is buying these horses?! Who can afford to buy these horses?! I've been laughed off the phone by several breeders when I told them what my budget was. I don't understand how these prices are so inflated! It's ridiculous!!
    I have a filly who is still on her dam (born this year) priced over 10K. She has good bloodlines, very good movement and good conformation. Her price will go up as soon as she is inspected as we are pretty certain she will be a top foal of her inspection. And chances are high that she will sell before weaned. But it isn't worth it to me to sell her for less even if she doesn't....because I will be very willing to take the gamble to raise her and start her well...and know that absent to typical risks you have will all horses getting hurt, she will be worth quiet a bit as a young performance horse (as the breeding behind her indicates) and fun to bring along. And selling them at 3-4 for 20-40K typically doesn't bring a ton of profit...that is probably just covering costs and a bit over. But it isn't the cost into that sets the price...it is what the market will pay for that individual, and what is the cost the seller will sell.

    People are buying the ones built well, moving well and well suited for their jobs. Fancy and a good brain are typically expensive because that is what the market is looking for!
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  11. #91
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2007
    Posts
    814

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    I understand that breeders need to make some money - I get that. The unfortunate part is that it restricts a lot of riders (at least that I know) from buying something fancier. While I wouldn't trade my horse for anything, it sucks to know that I'm automatically excluded from anything with any sort of 'name brand' breeding behind it.



  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    12,617

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustABay View Post
    I understand that breeders need to make some money - I get that. The unfortunate part is that it restricts a lot of riders (at least that I know) from buying something fancier. While I wouldn't trade my horse for anything, it sucks to know that I'm automatically excluded from anything with any sort of 'name brand' breeding behind it.
    I never paid over 2500 for my own horses for a long long time. I bought OTTBs. And several have been quite good athletes and extremely fancy...yes, even for dressage. For a lot of years, I bought an OTTB, put some time in and sold them for a good amount on $$ which I then used to buy my next horse.

    I didn't get into breeding into much later. You can only afford what you can afford but don't blame breeders.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Jul. 3, 2013 at 06:58 AM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  13. #93
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    Jun. 3, 2010
    Posts
    176

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    Congratulations! How exciting. We definitely need pictures.



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
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    7,347

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    Oh hooray, Justabay! Which one did you end up with?? I thought they had some nice ones!
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



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