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  1. #1
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    Default AQHA is promoting "extension of the gaits" aimed at judges!

    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


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  2. #2
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    I certainly hope so.



  3. #3
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    This is a weird quote:
    “When a judge calls for a lengthened stride in a gait, there might be two or three horses in the pen already moving correctly,” David says. “Those horses don’t need to change."

    The comments at the bottom of the page are pretty spot on.

    Points for effort here I guess, but you can't "extend" a gait that isn't even properly tracking up and cadenced in the first place...at least by no definition that the rest of the horse world uses.


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  4. #4
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    In reading AQHA's statements about this in the past, it seems that the writers have confused "extension" with "lengthen". They seem to use them interchangably.


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  5. #5
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    If the video on that news release of the world champion 2 year old is an example of the "new" guidelines, western pleasure is still a joke.


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  6. #6
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    yeah I expected a good mover. Still has that stilted crippled canter.


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  7. #7
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    I just watched the video (I was on my phone before so couldn't) and you're right, the video is not a good example!!! YUCK! In the beginning when the mare is loping and then circles around to the right, like facing the camera, it looks like she is sidepassing as she is cantering.

    If AQHA is going to try to make their point here, they could've done a better job picking a good example of what they are looking for. That video doesn't really convince readers that they are serious about what they want to see, when it is depicting what everyone thinks is crap.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  8. #8
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    The two year old filly is better than the current norm, which would be this: http://youtu.be/5v-kyhDEX4I Western Pleasure trainers are seeing so many past exhibitors go to things like Ranch Pleasure, they will improve for income preservation reasons, if not for good horsemanship reasons.
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com


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  9. #9
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    I think the 2 year old looks way better than some, as Plumcreek has mentioned. In the quarter horse world they typically "get the hindquarter" before asking for the lope, and then she turns.

    I really don't understand all the hate on the AQHA. Unlike many organizations they are actively trying to solve issues that have happened in the breed and in judging. Sure, not as fast as some other organizations and in some things they are quite behind, but can you imagine the USEF coming out and changing it so that hunters can have a little brilliance over fences (and afterwards)? Or the USDF saying they will heavily penalize waterskiing on the horse's mouth?

    They've been trying to change the peanut roll, and largely it is gone from the big classes. Local shows, well, that's hard.


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  10. #10
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    Why add a request for 'extension'? Just look for decent gaits & pin horses that don't look like they are in need of a bullet.

    I'll believe it when I see it.


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  11. #11
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    Hippolyta, when you see the big classes at the local level you'll see why. The judge has to judge and pin what's in front of them. If no one is moving out, they can't pin them. So they are saying, if that happens, they reserve the right to call for it.


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  12. #12
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    I'm 42 years old and grew up in Apps and QHs. I recall the first round of "OMG help the WP horses!" in the early 80s. Then again in the 90s. Then again in the 2000s. And here we are again.

    Nothing new under the sun. If they REALLY wanted to push for change- they would push harder. But they are skeered peeps will peel off and go show yellow horses, or paints, so they do a little 'ya'll outta do better' video and article and call it progress.

    My vet's an AQHA judge of many, many years. He said the other day that in his opinion they've bred the halter horses into being such hare brained bad legged idiots that only a fool would try to ride one. There's your horse, judge.


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  13. #13
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    I watched the videos. They look totally crippled. Is this the way they're supposed to move? How do they even get them to move like that in the first place? I grew up with quarter horses (used on the farm to move cattle and stuff). I never once saw one move like that.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Hippolyta, when you see the big classes at the local level you'll see why. The judge has to judge and pin what's in front of them. If no one is moving out, they can't pin them. So they are saying, if that happens, they reserve the right to call for it.
    Actually, a judge does not have to pin anyone. They could pin nobody if they really wanted & if all the riders/horses are all going incorrectly.

    Will they do it? Probably not. But, the option is there.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


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  15. #15
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    That would be a judge that wouldn't be invited back, SuckerForHorses

    I might take my guy and see how we do. Originally I was going to do the ranch pleasure, and I still might...but it would be interesting to see if they pin the more forward-going horse (he's still slow and lazy, but more forward than some). Of course, that would mean I'd have to have an absolutely perfect ride, and that I don't always have yet.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by potteryshop View Post
    In reading AQHA's statements about this in the past, it seems that the writers have confused "extension" with "lengthen". They seem to use them interchangably.
    The whole sport seems to have evolved in a way where they use the same terms as the rest of us, but in a twisted way.

    I've heard pleasure riders talk about collection, lengthening, impulsion, engagement and even the gaits themselves while using them to represent performances that contain none of these things according to the rest of the world. I suspect that it's a case of telephone...one rider tells another rider while never looking outside their chosen sport.

    Let's play a game of "one of these things is not like the other":
    http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur...keTheOther.png

    Top left: Reiner Klimke and Alerich in one of their medal-winning performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKbqokuTzh8
    Top right: Richard Caldwell teaching a young hackamore horse to rate off a cow, clipped from a personal video a family member took (with permission) at a clinic I was riding in
    Bottom left: Ranch pleasure champion, taken from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexLqB80TFc
    Bottom right: Western Pleasure Champion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?client=...71c&nomobile=1

    Sorry, but WP is kidding itself in thinking that the current state of the union is anything other than bizarre.


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  17. #17
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    But wouldn't that be the case for other things, too, aktill?

    I mean, "on the aids" doesn't mean the same thing for you as it does in dressage, right?



  18. #18
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    I have said this many times, but it boils down to trainer revenue. In Dressage, Cowhorse, and Hunters, you have to learn to ride to a minimum (about intermediate) standard to compete at all. In Western Pleasure, with the horses taught to crawl, that standard is more like advanced beginner, which opens up a much wider group of customers. Raising the standard to where WP horses would do 'real' gaits would eliminate some "write a big check, get on, and don't touch anything" clients. It would also make many more horses look better, and lessen the value of the few bloodlines with the temperament, body strength and conformation (like the DVD filly) to do a pretty good crawl naturally. Also, many so-called "trainers" have no idea how to train a horse without total submission - they have their system and they're sticking to it. (Look what happened to Totilas when the new rider trained by a formula vs Gal's incredible level of feel). This is the reality from my 40 years observing all this.
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    But wouldn't that be the case for other things, too, aktill?
    I mean, "on the aids" doesn't mean the same thing for you as it does in dressage, right?
    Nope, same same. On the aids merely means responsive to the rider's requests, neither above or behind the bridle nor behind the leg. The exact aids we use might be different due to either requirements (going to one hand) or tack (signal vs contact) but I take dressage lessons weekly AND interspersed vaquero horsemanship clinics without issue because horsemanship concepts are universal when taught correctly.

    The outward appearance of a horse should be dictated partially by conformation and partially by their degree of development. A reiner doesn't need to be gathered up/collected to the same degree as a dressage horse, and generally has a much more downhill build, so their appearance will be different. If a dressage horse is asked to do reining work and vice versa, however, the only different in appearance should be the result of different conformation.

    Universal concepts like collection as expressed biomechanically:
    http://www.equinestudies.org/true_co..._2008_pdf1.pdf
    ...DON'T change however. Likewise impulsion, extension, etc, nor the fundamental definition of what the gaits mean.


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  20. #20
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    Nope, same same. On the aids merely means responsive to the rider's requests, neither above or behind the bridle nor behind the leg. The exact aids we use might be different due to either requirements (going to one hand) or tack (signal vs contact)
    Exactly - which means they are not really the same to the outward appearance (and I know for a fact that many dressage trainers would NOT consider your vaquero horse to be on the aids - they would be WRONG, and I do understand that, but that would be the case).



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