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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Default This is a post from a COTH member and it would destroy the horse industry

    It would be in violation of the Constitution...but ya have to laugh at the young lady (whos Mom was with PETA and is a total self confessed vegan) who does not understand RIGHTS

    Is this due to the education system?
    Do others think this way?

    Here it is..and I am reprinting it because I believe it is a dangerous path..but one that THIS poster actually believes is a solution.



    Well jenm, that doesn't seem very fair considering the fact that no one on the ban everything side was willing to brainstorm my way. But, since I'm not necessarily the type to cry foul and take my toys home, here are some off the cuff thoughts:

    Breeding: in order to further the quality of the American horses while ensuring that every horse has a home, we could institute rigorous in-utero testing of the resultant mix of genes to see if it is exactly what we want. If not, the foal is pinched off or aborted at an early stage. We'd have to do a lot of research into how those genes manifest, and that doesn't necessarily account for personality, so breeders would need to be willing to euthanize at any moment when a horse is not amateur friendly or develops an environmental issue or other injury, as one would not be able to be sure that a horse would end up in amateur hands.

    We could institute breeding licenses, and anyone found breeding horses without one would face the possibility of jail and the horses immediately euthanized.

    Racehorses could be immediately euthanized when they were done at the track unless inspected to be "genetically superior" or "perfect for an amateur" in which case they would be placed with an adopter that had been fully vetted.

    We could require that each horse owner have land to bury old horses on, and that the horse be euthanized on the property when it's useful life is over. You'd have to fund some sort of inspector so that you could be sure it wasn't sold to a black market abbatoir, operating illegally. They'd have to see proof of ownership and they would track where each horse goes.

    The Amish would have to leave the country. I don't see many solutions for them unless the government subsidized large farms where the Amish horses could go to retire.

    We could, if we did the above, institute zoo ranges or hunting where those well fed horses are "taken care of".

    We could make every horse owner support 1/9 of an unwanted horse via an equine tax. That would work out to about $50 per year per horse. Not sure what we'd do with those horses. Suppose they could live out their lives on large farms out west. But then we'd have to pay for labor and "opportunity cost" on the land, so that would cost more. Let's say $100 per horse per owner.

    We could require anyone who wants to be a horse owner to take lessons, be certified and have their facilities inspected quarterly for any type of neglect or subpar feeding. This would also ensure that the horses stayed where they were supposed to be.

    We could require that all horses be microchipped and their movements tracked by a giant database. If a horse ceases to move for awhile, crosses a border and doesn't come back, we could immediately dispatch a humane officer to the owner's last known location.

    I have to throw my horses some more hay. But these are some initial thoughts. Now remember, in brainstorming you aren't supposed to shoot down any ideas at first, but instead to contribute your own. Since I've been so kind as to provide my solutions, howabout you play the game my way and answer my original questions - then you are welcome to chip in and add to my list.



  2. #2
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    It would be in violation of the Constitution...but ya have to laugh at the young lady (whos Mom was with PETA and is a total self confessed vegan) who does not understand RIGHTS

    Is this due to the education system?
    Do others think this way?

    Here it is..and I am reprinting it because I believe it is a dangerous path..but one that THIS poster actually believes is a solution.



    Well jenm, that doesn't seem very fair considering the fact that no one on the ban everything side was willing to brainstorm my way. But, since I'm not necessarily the type to cry foul and take my toys home, here are some off the cuff thoughts:

    Breeding: in order to further the quality of the American horses while ensuring that every horse has a home, we could institute rigorous in-utero testing of the resultant mix of genes to see if it is exactly what we want. If not, the foal is pinched off or aborted at an early stage. We'd have to do a lot of research into how those genes manifest, and that doesn't necessarily account for personality, so breeders would need to be willing to euthanize at any moment when a horse is not amateur friendly or develops an environmental issue or other injury, as one would not be able to be sure that a horse would end up in amateur hands.

    We could institute breeding licenses, and anyone found breeding horses without one would face the possibility of jail and the horses immediately euthanized.

    Racehorses could be immediately euthanized when they were done at the track unless inspected to be "genetically superior" or "perfect for an amateur" in which case they would be placed with an adopter that had been fully vetted.

    We could require that each horse owner have land to bury old horses on, and that the horse be euthanized on the property when it's useful life is over. You'd have to fund some sort of inspector so that you could be sure it wasn't sold to a black market abbatoir, operating illegally. They'd have to see proof of ownership and they would track where each horse goes.

    The Amish would have to leave the country. I don't see many solutions for them unless the government subsidized large farms where the Amish horses could go to retire.

    We could, if we did the above, institute zoo ranges or hunting where those well fed horses are "taken care of".

    We could make every horse owner support 1/9 of an unwanted horse via an equine tax. That would work out to about $50 per year per horse. Not sure what we'd do with those horses. Suppose they could live out their lives on large farms out west. But then we'd have to pay for labor and "opportunity cost" on the land, so that would cost more. Let's say $100 per horse per owner.

    We could require anyone who wants to be a horse owner to take lessons, be certified and have their facilities inspected quarterly for any type of neglect or subpar feeding. This would also ensure that the horses stayed where they were supposed to be.

    We could require that all horses be microchipped and their movements tracked by a giant database. If a horse ceases to move for awhile, crosses a border and doesn't come back, we could immediately dispatch a humane officer to the owner's last known location.

    I have to throw my horses some more hay. But these are some initial thoughts. Now remember, in brainstorming you aren't supposed to shoot down any ideas at first, but instead to contribute your own. Since I've been so kind as to provide my solutions, howabout you play the game my way and answer my original questions - then you are welcome to chip in and add to my list.
    Where did this come from?



  3. #3
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    Sep. 16, 2008
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    410

    Default

    Is she joking???
    Impossible is nothing.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillydc View Post
    Is she joking???
    I can think of no other answer, especially when I got to the line about the Amish having to leave the country.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Jul. 13, 2011
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    East Longmeadow, MA
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    Default

    Obviously a joke.
    What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Nov. 7, 2002
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    Default

    Coming to that message with ONLY logic, the solutions, outrageous as they look, are legitimate suggestions. Of course, impossible to make into laws given the Constitution etc etc, nearly impossible to enforce, not very realistic given human nature ... but taking out all those limitations, I can see the thread of simple cause/effect.

    However, [re: We could institute breeding licenses, and anyone found breeding horses without one would face the possibility of jail and the horses immediately euthanized] my dark side takes over and thinks "hmn ... we'll need bigger sewer drains than China"
    *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
    Dressage becomes art when it is a joy for the horse. -KBH

    Mighty Thoroughbred Clique Now on Facebook ... ... show the loff


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Just another attempt at pot stirring. It's best to ignore.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    No..she is very serious that these are discussable alternatives ..ALTERNATIVES to slaughter

    Does she believe in them..I do not know..but her Mom was very involved with PETA

    This is on the Slaughter thread regarding Canada.

    She presents herself as a compassionate young lady..respectful and thoughtful

    and I am sure deport the Amish was a tongue in cheek..or was it?

    Not that it was doable.. but that it was considered..and presented..as an alternative solution

    Sadly, this is indicative of how people regard ownership of property..and rights.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    So California
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    Default

    You're a dirty piece of work, Fairfax, to harangue and harass. As she said, and she's right, the rule in Brainstorming is to throw out ideas, no matter how outrageous, and once there are a bunch on the table, you examine each idea and throw out the dumb ones. Yes, she has a few real stinkers here -- let's hope some were in the vein of A Modest Proposal. Why don't you "play the game," and contribute rather than set a bait trap and start shooting?

    But these are some initial thoughts. Now remember, in brainstorming you aren't supposed to shoot down any ideas at first, but instead to contribute your own. Since I've been so kind as to provide my solutions, howabout you play the game my way and answer my original questions - then you are welcome to chip in and add to my list.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    No..she is very serious that these are discussable alternatives ..ALTERNATIVES to slaughter

    Does she believe in them..I do not know..but her Mom was very involved with PETA

    This is on the Slaughter thread regarding Canada.

    She presents herself as a compassionate young lady..respectful and thoughtful

    and I am sure deport the Amish was a tongue in cheek..or was it?

    Not that it was doable.. but that it was considered..and presented..as an alternative solution

    Sadly, this is indicative of how people regard ownership of property..and rights.
    Son, I think you have been had.

    But I do agree, putting the idea of 'regulating the breeders' into words like this, you know, how some have demanded in the past, it makes it painfully obvious where such regulations would lead.

    Just a thought in passing: if 1% of the total horse population go for meat (for human consumption), I do believe we are far from 'over breeding'. The department for labor considers 4% unemployment rates as full employment.

    Just saying.

    But I believe the above statement - I laughed at the original - is driving the point home rather eloquently: It IS communism, it would never fly in the US....even the most pacifistic breeder would be offended. of course, I am sure the usual suspects will pop up and claim it as the next best thing since bute...


    But yeah, I am thinking it's a provocative suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #11
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    Default

    I can't understand, for the life of me, how Fairfax gets away with it. Others have been banned for less.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    18 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I can't understand, for the life of me, how Fairfax gets away with it. Others have been banned for less.
    Others are still around, having done worse. Deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Did we need another slaughter debate thread? Was the other one getting boring or something?


    8 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    Did we need another slaughter debate thread? Was the other one getting boring or something?
    Thank you, Voice of Reason.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    I'm with PeteyPie. My impression was that she threw out the most outrageous suggestions to get the ball rolling and to have others try to think outside the box. Actually, I was going to throw in a few of these myself when I had a bit more time.

    Exaggeration, distortion, omission of facts, and overall me-ism doesn't have any place here.

    FF, you're such a fan of the slaughter industry, who not add to the list yourself? When you're not indulging yourself in the above or haranguing PETA/HSUS ad nauseum, sometimes you actually can make sense.

    P.S. Back to the original thread.
    Last edited by betonbill; Jun. 5, 2013 at 11:19 AM. Reason: adding to above


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Oh for crissakes Fairfax.

    Did you miss where in EVERY OTHER POST in that thread I have advocated for local plants, making the process safer and more humane?

    Once again, what I had asked the anti-slaughter group to do was to come up with ideas that flipped the problem on it's head. To design a system as though every horse was going to be slaughtered at the end of its useful life.

    NO ONE. Not ONE poster was willing to do so.

    Jenm then said - ok, do it as though slaughter was banned, so I did.

    Please note that I don't actually believe that ANY of those things should be done as I don't believe that banning slaughter is a good idea.

    But until y'all can read for comprehension, I'm just going to stick to -

    Y'all are freaking nuts.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    Did we need another slaughter debate thread? Was the other one getting boring or something?
    Agreed
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Dec. 31, 2010
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    I already support three "unwanted" that were on their way to be a hamburger horses. I already have enough of unresponisible peoples problems that have been fixed and are now useful riding animals. Besides that I have placed one in a safe home and put one down who was in too bad of shape to make it. I will take another in when the time is right. I think I do enough to help horses without having to pay a tax. And the Amish? Excluding people based on religion? No, not acceptable. However, we are in line to take one of our Amish neighbors retired drivers when its time. Maybe if more people did that there would be fewer in the pipeline. Maybe this young lady should start walking the walk and actually save a few if she feels so strongly, I don't like slaughter so I work to save the few I can and give them the best life possible. I hope this is a joke article though, its so extreme it almost has to be.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    IMO that post will destroy nothing.

    - a "total self confessed vegan"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    I mean come on, really? You think this is going to destroy the horse community? Really? Do you honestly think any of this would happen? What's the point of the thread, really?
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


    7 members found this post helpful.

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