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  1. #241
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    Mar. 19, 2006
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    VA / NJ
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    There are always exceptions to everything, but i would bet if we looked at the pedigrees of all the small ponies that showed at Devon we would find fewer than 10% that had a pure TB sire or dam that didn't just happen to end up small by being a runt, or some other complication for lack of a better word. Mediums and larges? Sure. I live in VA pony country and look at pedigrees quite a lot. I don't think too many breeders will use a pure TB mare or sire if thedy are trying to get a small. It may happen by accident, but not usually what they are breeding for if using a TB
    www.midatlanticeq.com
    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
    November 11-13, 2016



  2. #242
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Carolinas
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    202

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    If the pony owner has the x-rays and other documentation somebody is going to have a bad day in court. I don't think this would go to court if she does have that documentation. Whoever would probably settle. She's going for punitive damages, treble, and things like fraud. Which can get ugly if it is conspiracy to commit fraud. The vet has asked for all documentation and timelines. So far, the complaint/answers are part of discovering who did what and who has what. This could drag out for a very long time. The barn did receive commission for the pony. I am not sure how that works in NY law, but to me it says they were buyer/agent involved even if they did not sign the bill of sale. The owner is saying it was a known fact amongst everybody it was a short term investment pony. Barns being barns I'm sure she'll have more than enough witnesses. Good to see the going rates for showing and care. But it will be nothing compared to the legal fees, time, and heartache.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
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    2,374

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    I've puzzled and puzzled and now my puzzler is sore......why would Heritage release these invoices?? It is clear that the pony had special shoeing instructions and very pricey, unnamed show meds.....not normal for a six year old pony. Bet if the farrier is
    questioned; he was told from the get go to shoe for a special needs pony. And if four vets have stated they see the rotation on the pre-purchase X-rays, IMHO this is slam dunk for the plaintiff.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2005
    Location
    CO
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    4,880

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    Maybe not full xx on either side up front on a small, but there's a high percentage in many. That's how they have become so refined. I don't know if that's the case with this pony as I haven't looked at his pedigree (I'm not that concerned with it).

    There ARE breeders who strive to keep those Welsh lines in the smalls as close to the hardy ponies who roam(ed) the hills of Wales as they can...but they're often seen as not dainty enough for today's hunter ring. No, I am not confusing them with section C or D ponies. Welsh ponies bred for the hunter ring are my entire equine world right now, and have been for the past 7 years.

    I will say I know this particular pony's schedule is typical for the top echelon, but I also admit that I hate seeing it. The ponies I work with aren't even backed until 4 or 5, depending on mental maturity. They shouldn't be burned out or broke down by 6-8...but many are. It's sad to see them go from happy to work to obviously not having fun. Especially if (emphasis on that if) they have coffin rotation and are still forced to go, go, go.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2006
    Location
    VA / NJ
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    2,702

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    Frankly we've seen a lot more imported ponies in the ring in the last decade. German Riding ponie, British Riding ponies, etc. Many of those are a real mix ofmany things. Most of the german ponies I've had and known have more Arabian in them than TB. But most of those are mediums and larges. I think that the welsh breed itself has refined the B sections to be mostly very desirable as the hunter types we see in the ring today. Most of the A's do not have the movement type ( and yes i know there are some good moving A's, so don't feel that you all need to post about the one you had that won the hack at indoors three times) Most of this is generalization-there are always exceptions.
    www.midatlanticeq.com
    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
    November 11-13, 2016


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Carolinas
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    202

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    I am in OMG land. It could be over a million plus if it goes her way. Seems like she has no problem paying lawyers and seeing it through. What person on a jury is going to side with the "I sold you a lame horse" defendants?

    They are all going to produce a lot of documentation if this keeps going. Not sure if it will all be made public.



  7. #247
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2007
    Posts
    46

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    Just feel the need to point out something -

    The pony in question is "Joey" and actually has the LOWEST shoeing charges of all the horses on the invoices.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    4,059

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    I thought the pony in question was Sports Talk, aka Sporty?
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  9. #249
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
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    2,374

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMare01 View Post
    I thought the pony in question was Sports Talk, aka Sporty?
    The plaintiff did call him Joey. I stand corrected-thought his were the extra pricey farrier bills. Nevertheless, I would want to know what farrier was told when he shod him. If four vets have looked at the pre-purchase X-rays and saw the rotation, I still believe the plaintiff has a solid case. The vets can be asked what is their usual protocol on a pre purchase when a rotation is seen in a six year old hunter pony....



  10. #250
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2001
    Location
    West Coast of Canada
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    I thought it was Sporty too, as per the legal documents, but then I read Mrs. Dildabanian's comments on Facebook and she was referencing "Joey".



  11. #251
    Join Date
    Jun. 26, 2012
    Posts
    676

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    I'm not blown away by the board and training fees - typical for a top show barn. However the itemization of some items and drugs and not others is very sketchy. I don't know if this is typical for Heritage or if they break it down for some clients and not others, but "HS Meds" is... Very vague. Some items are probably upcharged - the nameplates??? I think I could nameplate everything in my house and still not spend $700..


    I don't know if these invoices will reflect well on Heritage. Even though they're in Westchester, some of these invoices can be manipulated to reflect a greedy, money-hungry defendant...



  12. #252
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2006
    Location
    VA / NJ
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    Most upper level barns that order all your stuff for you have a surcharge. Not sure that theirs is excessive, but it is not an uncommon practice. They order it (usually because the client doesn't have a clue about sizes, colors or keeping everythin uniform in the barn) barn pays for it and gets paid by the customer plus some for the trouble and fronting the money and the time it takes to do it. They pay a salary to someone to do all that kind of stuff i am sure. Don't think it is exactly criminal to have a surcharge.
    www.midatlanticeq.com
    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
    November 11-13, 2016


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
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    10,532

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    Of all the charges the one I found the most puzzling was for three wraps. How many legs does the pony have? I suppose it could be for three sets of wraps but it didn't seem like enough money, given the cost of some of the other supplies.
    The Evil Chem Prof


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
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    2,374

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    Quote Originally Posted by lrp1106 View Post
    I'm not blown away by the board and training fees - typical for a top show barn. However the itemization of some items and drugs and not others is very sketchy. I don't know if this is typical for Heritage or if they break it down for some clients and not others, but "HS Meds" is... Very vague. Some items are probably upcharged - the nameplates??? I think I could nameplate everything in my house and still not spend $700..


    I don't know if these invoices will reflect well on Heritage. Even though they're in Westchester, some of these invoices can be manipulated to reflect a greedy, money-hungry defendant...
    Bad timing too what with USEF trying to clean up hunters and the fact Heritage has their grooms sign the entry forms.......looks very shady. I know someone is going to point out that Heritage has never had a drug infraction. Nevertheless, the mystery, pricey meds aren't going to be fun to explain/justify IMHO. If you are going to take the time to itemize wormers and Quiessence, why not list the horse show meds too??


    12 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
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    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limerick View Post
    Bad timing too what with USEF trying to clean up hunters and the fact Heritage has their grooms sign the entry forms.......looks very shady. I know someone is going to point out that Heritage has never had a drug infraction. Nevertheless, the mystery, pricey meds aren't going to be fun to explain/justify IMHO. If you are going to take the time to itemize wormers and Quiessence, why not list the horse show meds too??
    (playing Devil's Advocate) Because you don't want to let others in on your pharmaceutical secrets?
    The Evil Chem Prof


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    202

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    Sorry to not read through everything, but where is stated 4 vets seeing the PPE?



  17. #257
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2000
    Location
    Upper Bucks County, PA
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    3,131

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    I am amused by the attempts of some to justify the invoicing strategies of Heritage Farms.

    Yes, some of the charges are standard per the industry...but $700 for nameplates? It's kind of sad to feel the need to come to Heritage's defense when it's obvious they are making A LOT of money off clients that (1) don't know any better or (2) are so desperate to win they will pay that much to play.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
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    35,684

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    Chunky Monkey? Clean out your mailbox. I was just PMing you to suggest you join the list of COTHers I have had drinks with. It's a nice list and led to some great evenings.

    PM you tomorrow.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  19. #259
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
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    2,374

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanny View Post
    Sorry to not read through everything, but where is stated 4 vets seeing the PPE?
    The plaintiff stated that on Facebook.



  20. #260
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2003
    Posts
    2,110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limerick View Post
    The plaintiff stated that on Facebook.
    Then it must be true. Because everything on the internet is true.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.


    6 members found this post helpful.

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