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  1. #41
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    I think the thing I find most...interesting about this whole debate isn't so much that they DID blatantly disregard the rules of the USEF, threw out her history by giving her a new name and number, but the fact that they did AND THEN AGREED TO AN ARTICLE/INTERVIEW IN COTH!!!

    I think it is highly likely that had there not been that nice little write up about her going to Devon, most of us, not just eventers but the hunters, too, would have been blissfully ingnorant of the fact that Commentary, this slightly scrawny looking phenom of a hunter that apparently came out of nowhere, is one and the same as RF Amber Eyes, who just ran around Jersey Fresh.

    Maybe no one thought it would stir anything up....


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    It would be nice to think that the USEF cared enough to require Kelly Farmer et al to transfer the ownership, pay for a name change and keep the same USEF number, instead of just issuing them a new number and letting the horse end up a year younger and of unknown breeding.

    So am I pipe dreaming that the USEF might send a letter that says: "We didn't realize you were interested in transfering ownership of a registered USEF horse with a name change. Please note you now owe USEF $xx amount for the name change and transfer and the horse must continue to be shown under the original USEF number, as the number recently issued is no longer valid". If the USEF isn't going to back up their rules, especially after all the public information on the famous background, why bother with registering the horse at all?
    Beth Davidson
    Black Dog Farm Connemaras & Sport Horses
    http://blackdogconnemara.com
    visit my blog: http://ponyeventer.blogspot.com


    14 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    The USEF seems to only respond to really bad national publicity. If some member were to send the registration department these threads, they MIGHT do something.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyracing View Post
    For commentary, are you saying since she has competed FEI; she can't be eligible for any greens? That not how I Interpret the rule since "FEI" is never mentioned. It has to do with when she first competed in a 3'6" competition (likely a prelim level ht). So the question is did commentary compete her first prelim ht jan 1, 2012 or later? It's possible, but I doubt it. Therefore, she needs a new usef number to be "eligible". Very sad
    According to the record I found on horse lookup, she competed her first Prelim in 02/2012.



    R.F. Amber Eyes / Karen O'Connor (VA)






    3


    8.0









    2012-02-10 - Ocala Horse Properties Winter II H.T. (FL) Area 3






    Preliminary OPC (Starters: 26)




    DR
    Penalty


    Place


    USEA Points






    R.F. Amber Eyes / Karen O'Connor (VA)






    6


    1.0









    2012-01-07 - Ocala Horse Properties Winter I H.T. (FL) Area 3






    Training OTB (Starters: 17)




    DR
    Penalty


    Place


    USEA Points






    R.F. Amber Eyes / Karen O'Connor (VA)






    1


    6.0

    .
    Rhode Islands are red;
    North Hollands are blue.
    Sorry my thoroughbreds
    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :



  5. #45
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    Given that the rule in question references International competition, one would suppose that FEI competitions are included, and her first (didn't complete) FEI is a 1* CCI on June 6, 2011. She had 3 other CIC entries before before being imported and completed two. She might have had other qualifying results at some European national level in 2011 since the rules have changed so much for 2013.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Racetrack Reject,
    On the H/J thread, it has already been discovered that she competed in four FEI CIC or CCI* competitions in 2011. In other words, she was jumping 3'7-3'9 in 2011, 2012, and 2013 prior to becoming a hunter.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Racetrack Reject,
    On the H/J thread, it has already been discovered that she competed in four FEI CIC or CCI* competitions in 2011. In other words, she was jumping 3'7-3'9 in 2011, 2012, and 2013 prior to becoming a hunter.
    Ah, thanks. That explains my confusion as I forgot to look up FEI and not USEA.
    Rhode Islands are red;
    North Hollands are blue.
    Sorry my thoroughbreds
    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    This whole name changing thing is horrible! Like when people change an ex-racer's registered name because they don't like it. Good thing no Eventer worth their salt would dare change a horse's registered name...right? right?
    Nope not the same.

    Dressage, H/J, Eventers et.al are all governed nationally by the same body, the USEF and internationally under the FEI. Racing has no association with those organizations. The USEF handles names and registrations for sport the Jockey Club handles names and registration for racing. The difference is whether you are moving out from under the umbrella of one organization to the coverage of another. For naming reasons a move from say dressage to eventing is one that is an internal move, and racing to hunters is moving from one governance to another.



  9. #49
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    No one really gives a hoot about show names, except as they are linked to records. Those records include age, breeder, parents, competition history. Subk is right. Name the horse anything you like when it first gets involved with the USEF, but then keep the NUMBER with it no matter how many other name changes it goes through.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    No one really gives a hoot about show names, except as they are linked to records. Those records include age, breeder, parents, competition history. Subk is right. Name the horse anything you like when it first gets involved with the USEF, but then keep the NUMBER with it no matter how many other name changes it goes through.
    yes...the only thing with the name changes though is the search function used to suck. Not sure if it has changed but it used to be if they changed the name, and you didn't remember the number, you couldn't find them searching under the old name as only the new name came up. I'm hoping that has been fixed.....it was hard to trace some horses.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  11. #51
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    How expensive is it to chip them? And how expensive are the readers these days? Technology gets cheaper and cheaper and at some point it is down right ineptitude of the USEF for not requiring it once a horse is required to be registered.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    How expensive is it to chip them? And how expensive are the readers these days? Technology gets cheaper and cheaper and at some point it is down right ineptitude of the USEF for not requiring it once a horse is required to be registered.

    It isn't very expensive. I'm getting a national passport for one of my horses now and he will need to be chipped. Should cost me less than $100 (I've heard a lot less)...and I have to have the vet out anyway for other things.

    It is upgrading the passport to the international passport that starts to get expensive!!! but not the microchipping.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  13. #53
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    But what about readers? Are they cheap enough now to be standard in gate equipment?



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    But what about readers? Are they cheap enough now to be standard in gate equipment?
    I think they are less than $200. ETA: I just did a quick search and costs for scanners look like betwee, $120-300. Didn't research it enough to see which scanner you would need.

    Here is a pocket ISO scanner for example ($180)

    http://www.911petchip.com/index.php?...bna65c59854152
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    Nope not the same.

    Dressage, H/J, Eventers et.al are all governed nationally by the same body, the USEF and internationally under the FEI. Racing has no association with those organizations. The USEF handles names and registrations for sport the Jockey Club handles names and registration for racing. The difference is whether you are moving out from under the umbrella of one organization to the coverage of another. For naming reasons a move from say dressage to eventing is one that is an internal move, and racing to hunters is moving from one governance to another.
    To be clear, I am referencing the name change for name changing sakes, not the legalities of going in the green division/chaning eligibility due to the number changing. I do agree that new names should keep the same identification number in an organization.

    Take, for instance, my mare - Black Cutie. Now, had she raced and had the type of owners that wanted to keep track of her, they may enjoy being able to log into show websites or the USEA website to see how their mare is doing. Well, I buy Black Cutie and don't like the name so I change it to Starbird. Now, they cannot look her up, no one they know that travels the same show world as me may realize that Starbird is registered as Black Cutie with the jockey club.

    At the lower levels, no one would notice and had RF Amber Eyes not gone on to a big show like Devon so quickly, no one would like have ever noticed. So, no, in that regard it is not different. The fact that some people are getting up in arms about merely the name changing, to me, is silly. See the first post I quoted as an example. Horse sold, name changed because new owner preferred another name, no changes in eligibility mentioned.

    The spin off thread on what your horse's hunter name also has no reference to eligibility issues. It's opening post mentions nothing of eligibility. In other words, I find it just as silly to think racehorse owners and/or breeders care less about name changes than other owners and breeders.



  16. #56
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    Ajierene,
    While I understand your point, I simply disagree.

    If breeders etc. want to know where their horse is, they have some options:
    1. don't sell it
    2. keep in contact with new owners
    3. lobby for a life recording number and/or microchips being required by all sport organizations
    4. pay for the life recording and/or microchip in the horse
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  17. #57
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    I don't think anyone has a problem with name changing for the sake of name changing. There is a problem with changing a name, loosing records, identity and the ability to track a horse's performance. And personally, I have a problem with any USEF governed sport allowing a horse's name to influence the judging results. JER's thread is poking fun at that concept. If you read several of the regular hunter posters on the subject they apparently believe that is the case and they don't seem to have a problem with it.


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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Ajierene,
    While I understand your point, I simply disagree.

    If breeders etc. want to know where their horse is, they have some options:
    1. don't sell it
    2. keep in contact with new owners
    3. lobby for a life recording number and/or microchips being required by all sport organizations
    4. pay for the life recording and/or microchip in the horse
    Thing is though, the horse in question IS lifetime recorded under its Eventing name and, as someone pointed out on the other thread, more than likely already does have a microchip.

    Back when this set of rules first took effect, USEF came up with what seemed (to me anyway) to be an admirable compromise between the need of breeders to track their horses and the desire of membership to be able to change names they don't like. According to the USEF rules, every time you sell/lease a horse and change its name you *should* keep the same number. that is a rule.

    Unfortunately, that system (like a lot of other things in the USEF hunter ring) is, at present, very, VERY broken. Many trainers and owners simply change the name and get new numbers. Sometimes this is done for nefarious purposes, sometimes not. I personally once owned a TB who had had, over the course of a long career before I got him, no less than seven different names and USEF ID numbers. And this is not really considered all that unusual in the hunter ring, sadly.

    The present issue with the present horse is FAR from the only one; no competitor in the 2nd Year Greens will file a protest b/c they ALL do it, and up until this point, it flew under the radar. This isn't the first time it has happened, and without Federation intervention, it will definitely not be the last. The system as it presently stands serves nobody except those who might wish to show a horse in a division for which it is not qualified.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  19. #59

    Default RF Amber Eyes

    Maybe she's in witness protection, and now we've blown her cover ......


    12 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Flutie, you would know this.

    Since the FEI now requires microchips for all new passport holders, what do they use them for? Do they require FEI competitions to have scanners and use them?
    Because at the top level h/j shows they often have FEI Jumper Competitions.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



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