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  1. #41
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    I get really frustrated when I hear about aggressive dogs adopted out to anyone who can breathe. Not only does it set the dog up to fail, it shows a lack of care about other people's pets, children, etc... All some of these rescues care about is numbers - how many can they place. Every adoption makes THEM feel good. When the dog goes on to kill another pet, they wash their hands of responsibility and they will often blame the owner they themselves picked out. Our dog bite laws are so screwed up that many times the dog goes right back to the "responsible" owner and goes on to terrorize the neighborhood and bite or kill again.
    You are what you dare.



  2. #42
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    Just wanted to chime in here about an experience I personally had. I am NOT an experienced dog person. My husband had a golden for years but it turned out he was not interested in doing ANY of the work with the dog we adopted - she was about 9 months old, a mix, not sure what breeds. Lovely, lovely dog around us and our cats. I took her for professional one on one training and trainer said she was fear aggressive. Kept working with her on a weekly basis with trainer and on our own. Then she nipped a friend's grandchild while staying at our friend's house while we were on our honeymoon - friend didn't tell us this. Then she went for a friend of mine (whom she had met and been fine with before) and bit her. Both my vet and the trainer said we should euth her. I was persuaded by a very, very dog savvy friend and co-worker to give her instead to a dog trainer of co-worker's acquaintance, which I did. As far as I know dog is happy in her new home.

    We most certainly did NOT have the know how to handle this dog and never should have adopted her, in hindsight.
    What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!



  3. #43
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    (apologies for multiple posting but Windows 8 doesn't seem to allow paragraphs in this site for some reason) I see way too many places adopting out completely unsuitable dogs. Pounds, shelters and breed rescues. And by unsuitable I mean everything from excessively timid to extremely dominant to aggressive. They have to realize that Joe Pet Owner is not usually capable (or just not want to) deal with a high maintenance pet. And they often remove tons of potential owners from a future of adopting...and in some cases from ever wanting to own a dog at all. Ask local breeders and most will tell you lots of buyers come from failed adoptions. And not to start any flame wars...meaning this in the least accusatory manner: the worst offenders in my area are the pit bull rescues. They take the most difficult dogs from kill shelters and then adopt them out with minimal/no retraining or just assume that it's "misunderstood and love will fix it." In CT the worst advocates for the beleaguered breed are it's blind supporters. The "no bad dog, only bad owners" who stretch that into "love cures all" and "all pits are good dogs who just need ME." It's not true of any breed, including pits. And since they grab up the toughest cases, they drastically increase their piss-poor fail rates. It's not just loving the breed/dog and reading online stuff about them...it's fully understanding and accepting each breed for what it really is and making decisions from there. By far the most problem pits in this area have been from normal homes and breed rescues...not from thugs or dog fighters. And owners who've had only a few of the breed and had good dogs will tell anyone and everyone that ALL pits are safe and sweet and only need love. Breed blind. (and happens with other breeds too) And it's not only dogs that were abused or neglected that can become dog or animal aggressive. Any dog can and the chances increase depending on breed type. We just see it most often in pits due to there being 10x more of this breed around than anything else.
    You jump in the saddle,
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    ...Belefonte


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  4. #44
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    Yes, I can tell you that after my experience with this dog I will not ever ever get a dog again. I am more of a cat person anyway but we really wanted a dog. No more.
    What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!



  5. #45
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    Mistyblue wrote: "no bad dog, only bad owners"

    You are correct that this is untrue, you are also correct that most people want a self training dog. That is why adopting out dogs like the one in the original article or the one adopted by oliverreed is so frustrating.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by threedogpack View Post
    Mistyblue wrote: "no bad dog, only bad owners"

    You are correct that this is untrue, you are also correct that most people want a self training dog. That is why adopting out dogs like the one in the original article or the one adopted by oliverreed is so frustrating.
    What do you mean by self training? I do not think people like oliverreed expect dogs to train themselves or automatically be perfect with no effort from the owners. I do think people who adopt dogs should know their limits when it comes to training, and rescues should respect that. Therefore it is the rescues responsibility to only adopt out dogs which can be reasonably expected to be "trainable" in as far as what the adoptee needs.
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Event4Life View Post
    I do think people who adopt dogs should know their limits when it comes to training, and rescues should respect that.
    And how would the Dog Virgin know about their limits prior to testing them?

    In other news, the John guy in the original article is an idiot. His dog does all that damage, he offers merely half of the vet bill and calls the other dog owner "victimy" for suing him for the cost of all the damage to dog and gate?

    How does he get the logic to line up to justify that?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    And how would the Dog Virgin know about their limits prior to testing them?

    In other news, the John guy in the original article is an idiot. His dog does all that damage, he offers merely half of the vet bill and calls the other dog owner "victimy" for suing him for the cost of all the damage to dog and gate?

    How does he get the logic to line up to justify that?
    Okay, but I would hope that the average joe who adopts a dog would know that if they've never had a dog before in their lives they shouldn't get a high energy untrained boarder collie. And if they don't know that, then rescues, especially breed related ones, should be able to tell them.

    Or if they live in a tiny apartment they should do their research and figure out what types of dogs are innapropriate for that environment, or how much exercise a dog needs to thrive in that environment.

    I know a lot of you guys are doom and gloom when it comes to society at large, but really, not everyone who adopts a dog is as idiotic as some of you seem to think. Just because we only hear about the bad stories on here doesn't mean the dog stories aren't out there.

    PS: As I stated in a previous post, I do think the guy in the article was an idiot. Especially for accusing the cockers owner of feeling victimized because he didn't offer to pay the full bill for damage his dog was fully responsible for causing (WTF?!).
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Event4Life View Post
    What do you mean by self training? I do not think people like oliverreed expect dogs to train themselves or automatically be perfect with no effort from the owners.
    I mean most people want dogs who are just "good dogs". Read carefully, I never said oliverreed wanted that, s/he said s/he took the dog to classes. Most people don't, or if they do take the dog to classes, they don't practice the skills they were taught.

    I do think people who adopt dogs should know their limits when it comes to training, and rescues should respect that. Therefore it is the rescues responsibility to only adopt out dogs which can be reasonably expected to be "trainable" in as far as what the adoptee needs.
    What people should know and what they actually know might be light years apart. Most of the people I get calls from have no clue what they want the dog to do, they just know they don't have it and don't know how to get it. Then once you hit class #2 or 3, they quit working the dog because it turns into *work*. The dogs don't "self train" and don't absorb the lesson through osmosis.



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Event4Life View Post
    Okay, but I would hope that the average joe who adopts a dog would know that if they've never had a dog before in their lives they shouldn't get a high energy untrained boarder collie. And if they don't know that, then rescues, especially breed related ones, should be able to tell them.

    Or if they live in a tiny apartment they should do their research and figure out what types of dogs are innapropriate for that environment, or how much exercise a dog needs to thrive in that environment.
    I ask because I am almost a Dog Virgin. I have never picked one to own myself, though my family did. Yet I can yell a cat into submission and ride 1,000-pounders.

    I'd never choose to have a dog at all if I worked/didn't have a yard so that it had to never pee or poop unless I was in attendance. That sounds cruel, yucky (for me) and impractical.

    I am bigotted against so many breeds that you hear bad things about.

    Yet I do fine with actual dogs I meet.

    So if I walked into a shelter or rescue, I'd sound like exactly the wrong person to adopt a dog or (given the horse history and my ability to relate to dogs in the short term), I might sound like the right person.

    And I don't even know how much of a dog idiot I am. I do think I'd start with the dog equivalent of the husband horse.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Event4Life View Post
    Okay, but I would hope that the average joe who adopts a dog would know that if they've never had a dog before in their lives they shouldn't get a high energy untrained boarder collie. And if they don't know that, then rescues, especially breed related ones, should be able to tell them.
    Joe Q Public does not have a clue about what would be a good dog for them. If that were the case there would never be another quiet, 10 year old dog in a shelter. Most see that pretty dog in a kennel and want that pretty dog to go home with them. Or they see the frightened dog and "just know" they can make it into the best dog evah, not having a clue that frightened dogs bite more often than aggressive ones!

    I don't here about the bad stories just on here, I also deal with them. Which does not equal only bad, there are good as well. That said, I think the wrong dogs being adopted are on the rise.



  12. #52
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    As a veterinarian who cannot even begin to count how many new puppy exams I have done, I can attest to the fact that most folks expect maturity to give them a well behaved dog. I always recommend/encourage puppy school/basic obedience. Very few are willing to put in the effort. Then they wonder why their dog doesn't magically grow up to walk politely on a leash, etc.



  13. #53
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    Misty-I agree the second bite from the Rottweiler was unprovoked on the TV show. However, I wonder if there was something about the encounter the producers didn't show, such as only showing the bite incident, and not showing the actual length of time the dog and officer were together before the filming started, or if there was other contacts with the officer and dog, and only the last was shown. I also wondered if the previous neglectful owner of the dog resemble the officer, or if they wore the same cologne or something. The entire TV show was strange, and really bothered me. It was the last straw about the actions of that group, and I never watched that show again.

    I've mostly had Mini Schnauzers, and a Beagle years ago, so my animals always like to chase. My last boy really hated the wandering neighbor cat coming through 'his' yard, and I encouraged him to bark at her, because the cat and her numerous, and short-lived kittens were using the outer part of my yard for a litter box. My animals always really enjoyed chasing the occasional squirrel to the fence, but I've never had an animal actually kill anything. I always wondered what would happen if any of my animals had actually caught anything, but they were happier to corner something, and bark-there's nothing quite as funny as finding out my dog was barking at a huge cricket, as if it was a hideous danger to his yard. I've always sworn that if I had a human aggressive dog, that euthing would happen, but I've never had that problem. I know enough about dogs, and my own capabilities, not to get an unsuitable dog for my living situation. However, I've had acquaintances that get one unsuitable dog after another, and never seem to realize that the problem is the animal they get, and the fact that they can't handle them. People just don't seem to accept reality, and accept that they aren't super dog trainers.
    Last edited by JanM; Jun. 6, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  14. #54
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    Jan. 24, 2006
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    Default somthing to think about

    We adopted, Bolt 1 and a half yrs. ago we adopted his sister, 3 days after,-there was a problem, in that our shelter, thought that, having 3 cats', and 1 older female dog, we were' over the quota for animals. Had to explain, that cats' weren't counted. Got Fayla she went for the old girl'(the vet said"' That's unusual she should have immediately known to submit ". )Really?? I adopted, an Irish setter, who I told, hates guys, and Knocked down their screen door, to put her paws on my oldest son's shoulders and licked his face. We had her for another 7yrs. But, Fay had to know 'BIG NO!! wether 'old dog, or cats. She now knows cats' old dog, two 2 many alpha females in this house!! MYSELF OR dd have broken up fights! That said, had Fayla gone to another home, she would have wasted and been, no other dog , no children, no other pets'-- That's what I look at, wether I'm adopting a cat dog, or a horse'-I don't take on absoulutely, 1 that I know can will fit ( spelling Is wrong purposely) then I don't take on that 1-



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshfield View Post
    As a veterinarian who cannot even begin to count how many new puppy exams I have done, I can attest to the fact that most folks expect maturity to give them a well behaved dog. I always recommend/encourage puppy school/basic obedience. Very few are willing to put in the effort. Then they wonder why their dog doesn't magically grow up to walk politely on a leash, etc.
    I agree. For a lot of people, it just comes down to time. Training, exercising, and socializing a dog all require a person who has some time and wants to spend the time on it, as well as having the money to get professional help when needed. A lot of people getting puppies just don't have the time resources they would need to be successful.
    That, and a lot of people have terribly unrealistic expectations. House training is a big one. There are so many people who have described how the keep their dog or puppy, and then tell me he knows better than to go in the house when it is obvious that he probably has no idea. An alarming number of people are still rubbing their noses in accidents and thinking that learning is occurring. I am not a dog trainer and I don't really offer advice, but a lot of people aren't willing to change and accept their vet or a trainer's advice, especially if it is time consuming. People just don't realize how much time dogs can require. So many people under exercise the dog and can't understand why the dog is hyper.



  16. #56
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    Agreed. Would also like to add that one of the biggest issues I see with "problem dogs" is lack of consistency. Even if they KNOW what/how to train the bare basics, they tend to ignore being consistent which can confuse the heck out of dogs. Don't let him beg this morning, feed him from the table at dinner. Take him out ever 2-3 hours as a small pup for house training one day, today it's raining/I'm tired/I like this show and only take him out twice for the day. Don't want a big dog that jumps all over people, but he's little and cute now so it's okay. And then thinking all dogs should KNOW everything. He should know to sit, stay, come, etc after I show him once!
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  17. #57
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    Yeah- I have a co-worker who is still waiting for her now-4 year old lab to "grow up" and stop mis-behaving. The dog mis-behaves because it gets crated 20 hours a day and has never received any kind of training. She refused to take a training class because "I've had dogs before" ????

    Another person I know, an elderly person with a bum knee, fell for the myth of the fenced yard being the only exercise a dog needs, and she bought a 1-year-old Australian shepherd off craigslist. She is also waiting for the dog to magically mature into a calm, well-behaved adult. The dog has knocked her down several times and bit her once when she "disciplined" it by beating it with a rolled-up newspaper. I convinced her to go to a trainer, though.

    And an alarming number of people think dogs understand English.



  18. #58
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    Very true Wendy, so many people get mad when they explain something to a dog and think it's ignoring them on purpose. Lack of activity can make tons of dogs "misbehave" and so many people think actual interactive exercising of dogs is an inconvenience. They want a dog, they picture the perfect acting dog that accents their lives and get one...then don't want to do all the work that comes getting the dog "perfect."
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  19. #59
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    You all make dog ownership seem really hard and onerous. I guess we lucked out w/ our dogs because I honestly feel like they've trained themselves - or at the very least required little work. We had both as puppies along with little (in diapers) kids...

    They are house broke. They come when called and can be called off. They get off the couch, drop things, kennel up, sit, lay down, go to the house door when coming from the barn, tie up (in the barn), stay out of the horse paddocks, run/jog on leash like pros, hunt and retrieve, are enthusiastic but polite to house guests, and are friendly to other dogs. They leave the barn cat alone. All just by living in our house and learning our expectations... No classes, no professionals, no "active" training except playing and interacting with them. Really, there are dogs that are THAT easy... no work really... just really good dogs. I suppose these dogs don't end up in shelters often?
    Last edited by millerra; Jun. 6, 2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: typos



  20. #60
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    I guess we lucked out w/ our dogs because I honestly feel like they've trained themselves
    it sounds like you spend a lot of TIME with your dogs doing things with them and taking them places and actually exercising them- so they were able to figure out what your expectations are- and you may very well be one of the few that has CONSISTENT expectations. Many dogs can't figure out the rules of the household because the rules change constantly. And many dogs spend very little time with their owners, and their owners don't really DO anything with them- they want to let the dog out to potty in the morning, leave all day, and then be able to relax and ignore the dog all evening. Bored, untrained, unsocialized, under-exercised dog really has no chance at all of NOT developing behavioral problems. When I worked at a shelter, 90% of our intake was 6 to 8 month old dogs being dumped due to behavioral problems caused by owner neglect of the basics of socialization, exercise, and basic training. Many aggression problems (both to dogs and to people) are rooted in fear, and many fears of dogs can be prevented by proper socialization of young puppies. Cat-killing can be prevented by socializing young puppies to cats.

    this is a pretty good blurb about the problem, from a rescue website:

    Neglect may be one of the leading causes of many of the behavioral problems we currently see in dogs. As experienced dog owners, we know how important it is to spend a lot of time with puppies prior to the time they are 14-16 weeks old, or even better, prior to 10 weeks old. If they are never exposed to small children or strangers or never taken from their homes or yards, they can develop "fearful-aggressive" tendencies. When a small, active child finally corners such a dog, or a stranger reaches for the collar, they often bite out of fear. Shelter, here we come.

    Families where both adults work often end up with dogs that never get properly housetrained because their owners are never home to take them outside when they have to eliminate. The pooch greets his owners at the door when they arrive home, and the owner grabs him, yells at him, and rubs his nose in his feces, usually several hours after the deed was done. This occurs every day. The owner is convinced the dog knows he did something wrong because he runs and hides when the owner arrives home. Pretty soon the pup becomes an "outside dog." I hope he doesn't bark too much or you know where his next home will be.

    Destructive behavior is another common problem. Dogs are often left alone all day. One day, a pooch gets real bored and decides to eat the couch. This time, he gets severely beaten, several hours after the damage was done. The dog thinks Dad must have had a real bad day at work because usually he doesn't get beaten as hard or as long. Get ready to move outdoors, pooch, because you can't be trusted inside any more. Please don't bark or run away, though, or you'll really be in trouble.



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