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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    532

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    I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.

    Once I get to know the people at this new barn better, I am considering moving to Legend or Pentosan or something. But, I'm not going to let someone I don't know stick a needle in my horse!
    Pisgah: 2000 AHHA (Holsteiner x TB) Mare (lower level eventing, with a focus on dressage)

    Darcy: 7? year old Border Collie x Rottweiler? Drama Queen extraordinaire, rescued from the pound in Jan 2010



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,312

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    Quote Originally Posted by emirae1091 View Post
    I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.
    This is 100% curable if one has the will and the desire.
    Click here before you buy.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,300

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    I can confidently do IM injections with no issue. They are easy and really hard to screw up imo. I have been doing them since I was fourteen so really no issue. I have no issues with needles and I don't think if I did it would be hard to get over when you are injecting a horse not yourself.

    IV injections I am also comfortable doing. They took a lot more time than im before I was doing them alone. Its more factors and more room to screw up. I get my pentosan iv not im. I get my glucosomine im but sometimes I can find it cheaper iv. It really depends if I want to put the effort in and how much of a price difference it is.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,150

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    You'll see that you will get a bunch of yes it works replies and never will touch the stuff replies. As for my experience I have found some that work wonders and others that don't at all. But I also believe it has to do with what works with your horse.

    I originally had my horse on Corti-flex and it worked wonders, but I wanted something more so I switched to the SP Cosequin. After about a month when I would pick his hind feet I would hear a "popping" noise like when you crack your knuckles. He had never had that before and had no injuries. The only difference between the two supplements was HA in the first and no HA in the second. So I switched again to Grand HA Synergy and never heard the nose again and my horse did wonderful on it! Never had a problem.

    Unfortunately, I had to switch again to SmartFlex Rehab for a tendon injury but I was blown away by how well it worked and have the Ultra Sounds to prove it. So now my boy is on the SmartFlex Rehab.

    I've had similar situations with my older horse and so I just find what works and use it, but I will say there are just as many that don't work for my guys, but that doesn't mean they don't work. Just like humans every horses system is different so different things work!
    Forrest Gump, 14, OTTB
    Little Bit Indian, 26, TB

    Owner of Spur of the Moment, Custom made spur straps! Find us on Facebook



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
    Posts
    3,052

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    You forgot good shoeing, good footing and ice.
    You're absolutely right--and of the three, GOOD SHOEING is the one that matters most. You'd never believe the numbers of "lay-ups" I get who go home in 6 months, 100% sound and all I did was watch them wander the land barefoot.
    All they needed was a divorce from their farriers!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2011
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    906

    Default

    [QUOTE=emirae1091;7013738]I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.QUOTE]

    I once came verrrry close to passing out when my horse was blocked for an injury. Seeing the needle, smelling the alcohol and hearing the things on the metal tray did me in.

    However, I worked up the courage to give my horse his Pentosan and it's no big deal. Well, a bigger deal for me than my horse, but I do it, partly because he's my baby and I'll do what has to be done, and partly because I can't afford to pay the vet to do it. He gets lots of rubs and treats afterwards (makes me feel better about it--he couldn't care less). I don't look forward to doing it, but I do.

    Maybe if you watch someone else give one, from a distance to start with. Or watch Youtube videos of the same. Load the syringe for someone else. Acclimate yourself to it.

    My vet mistakenly left me thicker needles than I usually use. That made me queasy---I could imagine that harpooning a whale!



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug. 24, 2003
    Location
    Cresco, PA
    Posts
    155

    Default

    I've had great results using a chelated joint supplement. Got a STB who wore out the cartilage in his fetlock joint racing. He was 3 legged lame. Got xrays and vet said "Bute for life." I wanted to get him healthy so I opted for the supp and a wait and see approach. Put him on high therapeutic dose. In a year he was pasture sound. In a little more than 2 years he was riding sound. Now he maintains on the regular dosage and is happy and comfortable. I even galloped him on the trail and a friend played with running barrels on him.

    He did so well that I decided to try the human version. Bad knees that pop and crack and achiness getting up and down. Took therapeutic dose until one day I notice that my knees didn't need to be popped all the time and I was walking more fluidly. It actually felt like my stride was longer. Way cool! As long as I stay on the maintenance dose my body moves freely. If I stop for any length of time the creakiness returns. I hate taking the capsules but love the results.

    Bottom line might work, can't hurt.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2012
    Posts
    282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FLeventer View Post
    I can confidently do IM injections with no issue. They are easy and really hard to screw up imo. I have been doing them since I was fourteen so really no issue. I have no issues with needles and I don't think if I did it would be hard to get over when you are injecting a horse not yourself.

    IV injections I am also comfortable doing. They took a lot more time than im before I was doing them alone. Its more factors and more room to screw up. I get my pentosan iv not im. I get my glucosomine im but sometimes I can find it cheaper iv. It really depends if I want to put the effort in and how much of a price difference it is.
    True, very hard to screw up!

    Except for on my poor gelding. First shot we did ourselves, my husband was vet assistant to my equine vet for 4 years, why not, as he was confident in doing shots. We gave it, came back hours later and realized, he had injected near a nerve (or something, I really know nothing about giving shots and I was bawling my eyes out at 11pm because my horse wouldnt bare weight on that leg.) So after banimine, bran compresses and the next week we did our second loading dose, we opted for the vet to come out.

    Hit.it.again. Two people who could give shots in their sleep. My poor gelding! Nothing's happened since then, but my horse was seriously WTF for some shots after that.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
    Posts
    2,124

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    I prefer injectables, but as I understand, Adequan is still quite difficult to obtain; if my vet told me correctly yesterday, it's regularly on backorder.

    I maintain that oral supplements will not do enough to help osteoarthritis. There may be some potential for helping to delay onset of the disease a little, but I am skeptical of that as well.
    Glucosamine is the only oral supplement that, as far as I know, has even had an inkling of potential in alleviating osteoarthritis symptoms and potentially delaying pathogenesis in horses.
    However, this study published in 2009 pretty much says that the studies showing efficacy of oral joint supplements in horses have some significant limitations that may lead to the authors overstating the effects of these supplements on degenerative joint diseases.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    532

    Default

    [QUOTE=pony baloney;7015243]
    Quote Originally Posted by emirae1091 View Post
    I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.QUOTE]

    I once came verrrry close to passing out when my horse was blocked for an injury. Seeing the needle, smelling the alcohol and hearing the things on the metal tray did me in.

    However, I worked up the courage to give my horse his Pentosan and it's no big deal. Well, a bigger deal for me than my horse, but I do it, partly because he's my baby and I'll do what has to be done, and partly because I can't afford to pay the vet to do it. He gets lots of rubs and treats afterwards (makes me feel better about it--he couldn't care less). I don't look forward to doing it, but I do.

    Maybe if you watch someone else give one, from a distance to start with. Or watch Youtube videos of the same. Load the syringe for someone else. Acclimate yourself to it.

    My vet mistakenly left me thicker needles than I usually use. That made me queasy---I could imagine that harpooning a whale!
    Nope! My parents made it worse. When I was having issues as a kid, they and the Dr tried to help me 'deal with it'. So I went from being scared/not liking it, to passing out in the floor. Defense mechanism??

    It is what it is. I'm going to ask the BM at this new barn if she gives shots. I just moved there this weekend, so I don't think I trust her to give a shot quite yet, but everything else is very well run, and she seems very knowledgeable. Maybe once I've been there longer/seen her give one?
    Pisgah: 2000 AHHA (Holsteiner x TB) Mare (lower level eventing, with a focus on dressage)

    Darcy: 7? year old Border Collie x Rottweiler? Drama Queen extraordinaire, rescued from the pound in Jan 2010



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,675

    Default

    The oral supplement works well on one of my horses, not at all on the other. The first horse has many arthritic problems, so it is a blessing that he is more comfortable with the supplement. The latter horse moves the same on it, or off of it. Smooth, comfortable, easy movement without it, so that's how he rolls for the time being.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2007
    Location
    Bronx, NY/Atlanta, GA/Fort Dodge, IA
    Posts
    3,244

    Default

    I think the answer is that it is going to depend on the horse.

    I tried a few different feed-through supplements for my mare in addition to her 1x monthly Adequan injection. Once I was looking at the supplements that would cost as much as a second Adequan injection, I started just doing Adequan 2x/month instead. The 2x monthly Adequan works far better for her than the Adequan + feed-through ever did.

    Some horses, however, do quite well on feed-through supplements.
    Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous
    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    6,901

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    Equine Vet J Suppl. 2006 Aug;(36):622-5.

    Double blind investigation of the effects of oral supplementation of combined glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL) and chondroitin sulphate (CS) on stride characteristics of veteran horses.

    Forsyth RK, Brigden CV, Northrop AJ.


    Source

    Animal and Equine Science Department, Myerscough College, St. Michaels Road, Bilsborrow, Preston, PR3 ORY Lancashire, UK.


    Abstract


    REASONS FOR PERFORMING STUDY:

    Oral chondroprotective supplements are commercially popular for veteran (and other athletic or arthritic) horses prone to joint degeneration, yet lack conclusive scientific support.

    OBJECTIVES:

    To quantify the effects of an oral joint supplement (combination glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL), chondroitin sulphate (CS) and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine) in vivo on stride parameters of veteran horses.

    METHODS:

    Twenty veteran horses were randomly assigned to a treatment (n = 15) or placebo group (n = 5). Pre-treatment gait characteristics were recorded at trot using digital video footage (50 Hz). The range of joint motion, stride length, and swing and stance duration were assessed using 2-dimensional motion analysis. Treatment (or placebo) was administered daily for 12 weeks at the manufacturer's recommended dosage. Gait was reassessed every 4 weeks using the pre-treatment protocol. Double blind procedure was implemented throughout. Relationships between variables were analysed using General Linear Model.

    RESULTS:

    Differences occurred in the treated horses by week 8. Range of joint motion increased significantly in the elbow (P<0.05), stifle and hind fetlock (P<0.01). Stride length increased significantly (P<0.05) with treatment. Swing duration was significantly increased at week 12 (P<0.05), whilst stance duration remained constant.

    CONCLUSION:

    The oral chondroprotective offered symptomatic relief to veteran horses, evidenced by improved stride characteristics.

    POTENTIAL RELEVANCE:

    Oral GHCL and CS supplementation may improve welfare by alleviating symptoms of degenerative joint disease.


    PMID: 17402494 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



  14. #34
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2013
    Location
    North Los Angeles
    Posts
    50

    Default

    I was just informed there is a new injectable that is a generic adequate/legend mix. Have any of you used it? If so, what are your thoughts. The Icon, aka generic Adaquan was taken off the market and I cant get ahold of it anymore not sure if its a legal thing with trademark etc.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    Thanks Wendy, I was just going through and looking for that article. Of course that study only supplements earlier studies such as Anderson's earlier work

    (See Anderson, M. A. (1999). ORTHOPEDICS-Oral Chondroprotective Agents. Part II. Evaluation of Products. Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian, 21(9), 861-866.) that reviewed literature and agents and found very little benefit.

    But it's an OLD article, too, and it's good to have more recent (albeit very small and limited) studies. I'm sure the research will continue to evolve. I do give injectible joint supplements, just because they're more cost-effective and seem to work better (anecdotal) for me.
    Last edited by thatmoody; Jun. 8, 2013 at 06:10 AM. Reason: formatting



  16. #36
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2013
    Location
    North Los Angeles
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Would that be the Adeptus products?



    Quote Originally Posted by sevensprings View Post
    I've had great results using a chelated joint supplement. Got a STB who wore out the cartilage in his fetlock joint racing. He was 3 legged lame. Got xrays and vet said "Bute for life." I wanted to get him healthy so I opted for the supp and a wait and see approach. Put him on high therapeutic dose. In a year he was pasture sound. In a little more than 2 years he was riding sound. Now he maintains on the regular dosage and is happy and comfortable. I even galloped him on the trail and a friend played with running barrels on him.

    He did so well that I decided to try the human version. Bad knees that pop and crack and achiness getting up and down. Took therapeutic dose until one day I notice that my knees didn't need to be popped all the time and I was walking more fluidly. It actually felt like my stride was longer. Way cool! As long as I stay on the maintenance dose my body moves freely. If I stop for any length of time the creakiness returns. I hate taking the capsules but love the results.

    Bottom line might work, can't hurt.



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