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  1. #1
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    Default From Eventing Nation: "PETA Calls For An End to Eventing"

    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  2. #2
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    For those who said "It will never happen to us"
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  3. #3
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    Well, well, well.... They have finally come out and said what we've known all along. I am actually grateful that they have - now maybe people will stop accusing me of wearing a tin hat.
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


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  4. #4
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    No surprise there!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    That's nothing new. They've been calling for an end to racing for years. You notice we still have racing right?

    Fringe groups have been calling for stupid things since this country was founded. It doesn't mean that it's going to happen. You can safely put your tin foil hat back on.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    11 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    She fails to realize you cannot MAKE a horse do that.


    Jennifer Kirchner, PETA spokesperson, has been quoted by the German Press Agency and St Georg magazine as saying that “The tragic death of King Artus prove(s) that these events are too demanding for the horses. Horses are sensitive animals and to make them jump such dangerous obstacles under time pressure is animal abuse”.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    This coming from the group that has killed more animals that eventing ever will? It screams publicity stunt to me.
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!


    15 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    PETA seems to be an equal opportunity horse sport protest organization. If they try hard enough, maybe someone will pay attention to them. (Not in our lifetimes, LOL)


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  9. #9
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    Well, of course it is a publicity stunt, and of course it is unlikely they would actually end eventing, but that's not really the point: it's a diversion, it's meant to divide us, and PETA really likes to sue people that criticize it. Are they successful in those suits? No; but again, that's not the point. It's all about intimidation and division.
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    6 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    That's nothing new. They've been calling for an end to racing for years. You notice we still have racing right?

    Fringe groups have been calling for stupid things since this country was founded. It doesn't mean that it's going to happen. You can safely put your tin foil hat back on.
    I think the point is that this obviously inevitable crusade is noted by the pro-carriage crowd whenever Horse Folk start crying about the poor widdle carriage horses -- and the Horse Folk shout it down as being hyper-reactionary or some sort of slippery slope argument.

    Horse Folk are always convinced that their own discipline is above reproach. But no discipline is. So unless there are grievous abuses taking place, it benefits us all to stick together.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Didn't they try to sue Totilas' people for cruelty because he couldn't run free with all the other horsies? I think they sort of got laughed out of Germany for that one.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    What makes one part of the Tin Foil Hat Contingent (TFHC), in my opinion, is when you oppose reasonable, common-sense proposals about animal welfare or competition rules, not because you disagree with the content of the proposal, but only because PETA or HSUS supports it. It seems like the TFHC would refuse to support a ban on spiked, electrified jump poles (just making something up, though I wouldn't put it past some of you H/J types ) rather than hand even a minor success to PETA. Because if we allow them to ban spiked electrified jump poles, a ban on even owning animals is next, I tell ya, it's coming next. When what we should be saying is: shame on us that we didn't get that done already, working from within the horse industry.

    Unlike The TFHC, Eventing Nation adopted a very mature position-- the wording conveys a willingness to explore whether there IS a problem, even if that means PETA can take credit for prompting the study:
    "While it’s difficult to stomach any negative attention the sport receives — especially when the remarks are so scathing, as you’ll read below — it’s also important to do everything we can to preserve the welfare of our equine partners. While we probably can’t agree with PETA on much, we can at least find common ground in that. Weigh in, EN. What are your thoughts on PETA’s claims?
    Should the sport be doing more to study and understand heart-related issues that arise during cross country?"


    20 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Well said Hungarian Hippo


    ETA it's my understanding that while PETA or HSUS is involved in the anti carriage horse thing, REALLY it is the owner or developer of where the stables is that is driving that whole stupid witch hunt.

    Without the money bags person wanting to make more money from that location, how far would PETA/HSUS have gotten on the anti-carriage horse thing?
    Last edited by Angela Freda; May. 29, 2013 at 06:00 PM.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


    8 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Every single WORD of what HungarianHippo said!!!!
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    What makes one part of the Tin Foil Hat Contingent (TFHC), in my opinion, is when you oppose reasonable, common-sense proposals about animal welfare or competition rules, not because you disagree with the content of the proposal, but only because PETA or HSUS supports it. It seems like the TFHC would refuse to support a ban on spiked, electrified jump poles (just making something up, though I wouldn't put it past some of you H/J types ) rather than hand even a minor success to PETA. Because if we allow them to ban spiked electrified jump poles, a ban on even owning animals is next, I tell ya, it's coming next. When what we should be saying is: shame on us that we didn't get that done already, working from within the horse industry.

    Unlike The TFHC, Eventing Nation adopted a very mature position-- the wording conveys a willingness to explore whether there IS a problem, even if that means PETA can take credit for prompting the study:
    "While it’s difficult to stomach any negative attention the sport receives — especially when the remarks are so scathing, as you’ll read below — it’s also important to do everything we can to preserve the welfare of our equine partners. While we probably can’t agree with PETA on much, we can at least find common ground in that. Weigh in, EN. What are your thoughts on PETA’s claims?
    Should the sport be doing more to study and understand heart-related issues that arise during cross country?"
    THis^^^.

    And no one has ever claimed that their sport would never be protested...just that they wouldn't be successful at eliminating it. I can remember AR groups protesting racing and other events back in the 70's...they're all still here!


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  16. #16
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    I'm not going to respond specifically to any individual here whose instinct is to minimize this, or whose POV either poo-poos PETA's effectiveness in actually shutting down any horse discipline, or takes the tack of, "Well, there are some improvements which could be made..." I'll just respond in general, in an attempt to sidestep personalities and the snark that is already rearing its ugly head. Those comments come as no surprise, as the same posters always offer variations of them - but they all totally miss the point.

    PETA is run by geniuses of manipulation - committed, hard core, far-thinking geniuses of manipulation.

    The folks at PETA have zero expectation of ending eventing anytime soon. Too big, too much money involved; but also because it is too remote an activity to sustain the attention of totally-unacquainted-with-horses-in-any-way-BUT-loves-their-cat-or-dog-and-follows-animals-issues-somewhat Everyday Joe/sephine.

    But what their campaign will do is start the conversation for the above-mentioned EJ. The campaign will filter down through the media; the nuances will not survive the trip, the actual activity will not be explored or retained by Everyday Joe/sephine, and all s/he will be left with is a mental still of some especially gruesome photo of a horse crashing into the ground head first over some jump, (hand-picked by PETA after registering highest as the most awful by their focus groups) and thoughts of "ugh, such cruelty", and "why is this allowed", and "so unnecessary."

    Most important take-away for Everyday Joe/sephine? S/he feels guilt and a moral impetus to "do what s/he can" to mitigate this awful horse abuse; not only because s/he believes it is the right thing to do, but to make him/her feel better. Very powerful motivator.

    Some EJs may even think to themselves, "PETA is so crazy, but on this I agree. There is just no reason for it."

    So the EJs file away the now distilled and truncated "eventing issue". From here, depending on the person, they might send a few bucks to PETA; the ones who are HSUS members will maybe send an email registering their concern about the topic; others may join online groups and sign or start petitions against it; still others will do nothing, waiting for the issue to make the mainstream media in a bigger way. You get the idea.

    So, hundreds of thousands of these people let the RARA groups know there is support for them on this, and the RARA groups keep banging the drum, shaping the narrative, weaving the topic into the public discourse, until it is eventually part of the zeitgeist. In not too long a span of time, it becomes a somewhat vague issue to nearly everyone who pays attention at all to society at large, i.e. PETA and Sea World, spay and neuter, etc.

    Then the politicians get a whiff. They hear from the RARA groups, their assistants bring media pieces on it to their attention, they hear from their constituents. People pledge support for a candidate because he is willing to take up the cause. The individual politician may or may not care about animal issues - but may very much care about the pledged votes of a bloc of committed, single-issue voters on an emotionally-charged, high profile, sexy issue.

    Then comes a bill. The bill is ridiculous to the horseman; written by non-horsepeople with the toxic input of RARA horsepeople, it is misguided, punitive and dangerous. The language of the bill is guaranteed to cause undue hardship in the pursuit of the discipline, absurd restrictions, and a total lack of regard for the freedoms of the horse owners.

    Eventing folks now have to spend time and money hiring lawyers, forming support groups, meeting with politicians, writing letters to the editor, appearing in the media, and fighting amongst themselves.

    The bill passes in its original form, or is tweaked with little concessions the horse owners feel fortunate to get. Or the bill doesn't pass, and the controversy continues - as does the expensive and time-consuming efforts of the eventing community to defend their way of life.

    Either way, the well is poisoned. That is what PETA does best - poison the well, vilify animal owners who do not comport with their standards. Take the joy out of it for the eventers, turn public opinion against it, or at least question it. Eventing is never the same.

    PETA is in it for the long game, and this is their tried and true blueprint. Poo-poo it, parse it, or ignore it at your peril.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    17 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    What makes one part of the Tin Foil Hat Contingent (TFHC), in my opinion, is when you oppose reasonable, common-sense proposals about animal welfare or competition rules, not because you disagree with the content of the proposal, but only because PETA or HSUS supports it. It seems like the TFHC would refuse to support a ban on spiked, electrified jump poles (just making something up, though I wouldn't put it past some of you H/J types ) rather than hand even a minor success to PETA. Because if we allow them to ban spiked electrified jump poles, a ban on even owning animals is next, I tell ya, it's coming next. When what we should be saying is: shame on us that we didn't get that done already, working from within the horse industry.

    Unlike The TFHC, Eventing Nation adopted a very mature position-- the wording conveys a willingness to explore whether there IS a problem, even if that means PETA can take credit for prompting the study:
    "While it’s difficult to stomach any negative attention the sport receives — especially when the remarks are so scathing, as you’ll read below — it’s also important to do everything we can to preserve the welfare of our equine partners. While we probably can’t agree with PETA on much, we can at least find common ground in that. Weigh in, EN. What are your thoughts on PETA’s claims?
    Should the sport be doing more to study and understand heart-related issues that arise during cross country?"
    But this HAS been worked on and is continuing to be worked on and explored. In no way shape or form was the study "prompted" by PETA.

    If PETA or H$U$ supports something, fine, but under no circumstances should they be allowed at the table for the discussions. They have abysmal records of keeping their own noses clean and have proved, over and over again, that their end goal is the eradication of any use of any animal for any thing. If that makes me part of the TFHC, I wear a size 7 1/4 hat.
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    9 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Michaleenflynn, yours is a special case in NYC. You just have to follow the money. They want the land your stables are on. PETA is just along for the ride.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Michaleenflynn, yours is a special case in NYC. You just have to follow the money. They want the land your stables are on. PETA is just along for the ride.
    No. Not a special case, and Forel and Senator Avella have zero interest in our property. You are thinking of NYCLASS, which is only one prong of the forces against us.

    Moreover, this blueprint holds true for every single issue PETA takes on - I gave the example of Sea World and spay and neuter, but there are many more.

    How many people I have heard say, "Yeah, we took our kids to Sea World, but I really feel bad for the animals" - or any number of other activities, including what they put on their table for their families to eat. (and no, I'm not interested in arguing about Sea World or meat. Just showing how they operate)
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Michaleenflynn, yours is a special case in NYC. You just have to follow the money. They want the land your stables are on. PETA is just along for the ride.
    You are forgetting that it not just the real estate developer that wants the carriage horses gone - there are other groups that see the NYC carriage horses as a stepping stone to end the use of any horse for any reason.
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    3 members found this post helpful.

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