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  1. #21
    gothedistance is offline AERC Decade Team - 2000-2010 Premium Member
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    DH and I have been profit taking on our investments - doing major work and additions on our [paid off years ago] farm, buying a new car (Prius - LOVE the major MPG!!!) and diesel truck, booking the vacation houses in the OBX and in Florida - and ensuring we enjoy the good times...and the extra $$ from the investments... while they last.

    Every financial cycle and bubble from the dawn of time, to the first IOU passed from caveperson to caveperson, has weathered itself. History is nothing but a series of roller coaster emerging and departing religions/cultures/economic upturns and downturns.

    And life rolls on.

    Humanity is very resilient. Even in the face of plagues. The only thing we have to fear is what happened in the book "On The Beach", and then, frankly, no one will be around to worry.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    'I'll take a break from polishing my tin foil hat to say I'm right there with you. I joke about getting myself ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, but I'm trying to get myself into a position where an economic disaster (worldwide or just the US) won't also be a personal disaster.'

    I have a friend who is seriously into prepping. Really into guns! I might have to get one, but I don't want one.
    He had a movie not released in theatres, but he had ordered it from somewhere. About something like bird flu killing off maybe 2/3 of the population. This guy [in the movie], was a MD, and he was at the hospital when it was over run by very sick people. He slipped out and went home. I think he went to the store, and bought all he could. His family stayed in his home for awhile. Eventually there were no dockworkers to operate the cranes bringing in goods, the power companies quit working. There was no fuel. It was bad but got a lot worse. Toilets quit working, no water. All the roads were blocked by cars out of gasoline. It was frightening but effective.
    I absolutely believe we're in for big trouble. I am only however lurching toward the light.
    Remember that movie, "The Naked Gun?"

    I'd be all in favor of a genetically-engineered superbug that killed off all the STUPID people, yes siree!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    My mantra has always been to be prepared. It's why I have livestock (chickens, both meat and egg chickens, and geese). We have zero debt and zero credit cards. We have simple engined cars, and are saving for a diesel that we know we can convert if need be. We garden and we have food storage. We have a few improvements to make this year (I want hand-pump backups for our wells) before I will say that we are a-ok. My four horses are a bit of a liability, but I know how to trim, and our hay farmer is our neighbor. My next plan is to buy a hay field somewhere - just in case.

    I think the collapse is inevitable, not because of either party but because we started trading money that doesn't exist. Once Wall Street became a gambling arena I think all bets as to sustainability went away.

    My goal is to set us up so that we "need" as little as possible. That way if TSHTF, my family will weather it a-ok.


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    'I'll take a break from polishing my tin foil hat to say I'm right there with you. I joke about getting myself ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, but I'm trying to get myself into a position where an economic disaster (worldwide or just the US) won't also be a personal disaster.'

    I have a friend who is seriously into prepping. Really into guns! I might have to get one, but I don't want one.
    LOL, I'm not stockpiling weapons or building a secret bomb shelter or anything. I'm more concerned with financial disaster such as rampant inflation and not having enough money to meet my family's basic needs. So, I want to increase the amount of cash I have available and reduce my financial obligations.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    (I want hand-pump backups for our wells)
    That's number one on my current wish list, too. After being without electricity and thus without water for nearly 2 weeks the last time a hurricane passed through here, I really to be able to get water without electricity.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    My goal is to set us up so that we "need" as little as possible. That way if TSHTF, my family will weather it a-ok.
    Exactly.



  5. #25
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    I'm curious about the doomsdayer's prophesies. Approximately what sort of time period are you looking at for things to fall apart? Five years? Ten years? Twenty? I must be the only optimist reading this. I do think there will be an adjustment period as we switch energy sources and develop new energy technologies, but I don't think it will be an apocalypse.


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  6. #26
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    PeteyPie - I should also add that I do this in part for personal security. Should DH lose his job and my business go under, I would like to be able to survive with very little change to our standard of living. I do not want to be owned by anyone.

    But - I, personally, don't know when it can or will happen. I do know that as our political parties become more about stonewalling each other and less about cooperating, that endangers us. Not blaming either party in particular - they are both becoming equally scary. I'm not sure how long the US will remain such.

    Tin foil hats aside - it doesn't hurt us to live like this, and I feel better - so why not :-)


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  7. #27
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    Petey Pie...The economists i'm following say we will not make it to the end of Obama's term without another collapse into a Recession and some say another Great Depression. Some think before the end of this year. If Japan is going down economically, that will send shock waves to all others and might push us over also. We are truly on very shaky ground. I personally think Obamacare going on line in 2014 is going to cause at least a recession if not be a catalyst towards a Depression. We already are seeing some awful effects from ACA and that can't help the situation at all.

    The problem with counting on technology to save us is that we have been pretty stagnant on technological advances for some time now...and we have no real good options for alternative energy right now. Renewables have their limits and issues, nat. gas has limits, our nuclear reactors are aging and no new ones are being built, and fracking bring some major concerns on ecological damage, oil is much more limited than we are led to believe, coal is still there but being regulated out of business, and there just isn't anything really ready to replace oil..wont' be in time as oil prices will continue to go up. Rising costs of energy are not going to help our economy either.

    Interesting discussion and thanks to all who contributed. Glad to see I'm not the only one worried right now. I wish I was in a better situation financially..some of you have done an awesome job...but the recession hit us hard and we barely kept our farm/home payments made and have no reserves to speak of.

    My plans for this year are to get some form of alternative heat in our house...wood burning is preferred. I was just thinking of a combo wood/gas stove in my kitchen. I grew up with one and loved it. I'd love to get a manual pump on our well also...another very important project as well as a solar pump. I have a huge garden and will put up what we need and sell the rest at the markets. We raise our own meat animals also and sell what we don't need as part of our local food business. I still have too many horses but can graze them March to November on our pastures...just being careful about laminitis with the rich grass we have now. I also have 8 head of beef cattle out there three of which are young heifers that will be kept for breeding. We have two Red Wattle sows and a boar and ought to have our own litters by the fall. We will not starve if we can stay on the farm somehow and will have food to trade or sell.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Am I the only one who saw the dot com bust coming? I couldn't have been, but people were acting like it was going to last forever, and all I could think was "this can't be real". I'm no economist, but I remember feeling a sense of impending dread.


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  9. #29
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    I think that, within five years (may be within the next few months, the way things are spiralling) we will have a catastrophic NATURAL disaster that will do what you folks have been talking about, but naturally, not financially. Not that financiallyy, the world isn't in a mess, but that natural disasters atre more immediate. What will happen? Electricity out. Water gone. Supply chains (like trucks to grocery stores) not happening. With SO MUCH of the population, just having the electricity out is catastrophic for much of the population.

    WHY will this happen? Because we've messed up the earth.


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  10. #30
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    We are trying to consider whether to move our retirement accounts into something tangible. By the time dh retires...15 years maybe? It's a little scary to think of all the money we have tied up in ...computers. We've been paying off debt all along, but there is a big chunk of money sitting there in what feels like a very vulnerable place economically. We stopped investing for the kids' college accounts a while back and making other investments for them that we can liquidate quickly if we need to.

    Personally, with all the Monsanto business right now - my bigger fear is that a domestic terrorist will do something to our food supply. There are a lot of crazies out there. So we're stocking up...on everything.



  11. #31
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    We saw the dotcom bubble and the housing bubble. Really irritated the crap out of me when they bailed out all those people who took out the low variable rate mortgages they couldn't afford in the first place. We'd paid the 3 percentage points more for a fixed rate mortgage, which cost us substantially more than the variables, so we paid twice, as the government bailed out those more short sighted.

    Now I'm a widow, living off ss and iras. But I have no debt and live on an acreage. I'm currently rebalancing my portfolio into consumer staples that pay decent dividends and were able to maintain or increase their dividends through the recessions. Think things like verizon, general mills, proctor and gamble and such. I've stockpiled cash. I'm terrible at gardening, but have the land to grow one if the crunch comes.

    One thing to seriously consider, is that our population is not as civil as it was during the last depression. What happens when the crunch comes and there's no food and people come pouring out of the metropolitan areas looking for food. Will we have to be armed to protect our food sources? Scary thought......


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    We're going to show up too late to the party, as a society and as a race.

    The human race, with a focus on American society, has buried itself too deep. There is no way we can get out. We're too far gone, and we've messed up the planet. We're also not the best when it comes to being proactive, thinking of the future, and taking measures in an effort to prevent future damage or tragedy.

    I was recently rambling on about the bridge collapsing in Washington and how weak most American bridges are. You'd be eerily surprised. I see this as an example of our piss poor planning and calculating. Eventually all the methods we have used to cut cost or time will completely backfire. Things that weren't able to be maintained properly will give out. New technology that wasn't tested long enough before being fully released will fail or produce "unexpected" outcomes. Basically, a bunch of things are going to blow up in our face and we have no way of fixing it since we're in too deep. We have too many people and too much money tied up that we'll be overwhelmed when things start failing.

    The GE food, the medications, the power sources, the automobiles, and many other things that were not thoroughly tested enough before being released will become a problem. Some already have. We're in a rush to feed the monster, as long as the monster gets food, who cares what it eats. Right?

    What I’m getting to is that we have constructed so much in this world and there is no way we can possibly manage it all. There is a domino effect that is happening.

    We've fatally shot ourselves in the heart, and in our last moments we've decided that we want to live. It'll be too late.

    I'm glad that some folks are awake and taking steps toward something progressive/survival. A rapidly expanding population with advancements that are too fast and not well thought out will surely crash and burn. We're not the elite race that we think we are.


    Disclaimer: I use "we" as just a general term in reference to society. You may not fall into the "we" category.


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  13. #33
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    I agree, ThoroughbredFancy. We've produced and produced, with cost and rapidity of production and, commercially, return on investment, being the ONLY criteria. We've got crap products, and people who depend on them.

    And I don't think that being armed is going to help. There's always going to be someone meaner and with a bigger gun. I think we'll have to hide, lie low while the bullies rampage (they won't go far from the cities) and kill each other off, like the drug dealers do to each other in the cities. These people have a culture of stealing from others to live, and when there's nothing left to steal, they'll wipe each other out in a frenzy of violence. So, look poor and unworthy, and they'll pass you by for easier pickings. These people have no interest in planted carrots, for instance. Even if they wanted to pick and prepare food (they WON'T), they won't KNOW carrots lie under those wispy green carrot tops with no visible food. Be like those carrots.

    That little voice inside tells me to have a smaller (non-man-sized) nomndescript horse.
    Last edited by nightsong; May. 29, 2013 at 07:37 AM.


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightsong View Post
    I agree, ThoroughbredFancy. We've produced and produced, with cost and rapidity of production and, commercially, return on investment, being the ONLY criteria. We've got crap products, and people who depend on them.

    And I don't think that being armed is going to help. There's always going to be someone meaner and with a bigger gun. I think we'll have to hide, lie low while the bullies rampage (they won't go far from the cities) and kill each other off, like the drug dealers do to each other in the cities. These people have a culture of stealing from others to live, and when there's nothing left to steal, they'll wipe each other out in a frenzy of violence. So, look poor and unworthy, and they'll pass you by for easier pickings. These people have no interest in planted carrots, for instance. Even if they wanted to pick and prepare food (they WON'T), they won't KNOW carrots lie under those wispy green carrot tops with no visible food. Be like those carrots.

    That little voice inside tells me to have a smaller (non-man-sized) nomndescript horse.
    If civilization collapses, we won't have the luxury to have horses, there are better, more efficient ways to live with the minimum.
    Horses require too many resources that we will not have.
    We will be too busy trying to survive to also try to keep large animals alive.
    We will have eaten them all and probably those that have the big stick will end up eating people also to survive.

    People have been making such predictions of collapsing societies since the first ones and you know, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    Yes, sometime, somewhere, there will be collapses, but no one can say when or which kind.

    It does look like so many having and using so many resources as we are in first world countries and then, idle, not busy trying to survive as the rest of the world has to live, some of those are trying to change the world according to them.
    This administration is one of those, with their "social engineering", that is utterly shortsighted.
    You know, we are all as clueless as anyone else, because no one can even start to foresee what may come to be.

    I would say, sitting on this is not going to change what happens.
    Doing something about it neither, because we don't have a roadmap, never had one.
    We can find sense in chaos in the context of the big picture, but we lack the foresight to do the kind of micro-managing it would take to account for all that needs to be managed to, what, keep the world as it is, keep humans viable, or ???
    Makes one want to say, "stop this planet, let me off!"

    We can cry wolf all along and what do you know, sooner or later, the wolf will come and we can then say, "I told you so".

    All that can be said about these prophecies as here is a lame "maybe so".


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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    If civilization collapses, we won't have the luxury to have horses, there are better, more efficient ways to live with the minimum.
    Horses require too many resources that we will not have.
    We will be too busy trying to survive to also try to keep large animals alive.
    I agree; I have already thought through how I'd get rid of each of my horses if there was a collapse. The old TB with special shoes would go first. The two barefoot ones could be useful for a while, but not if I had to keep them through the winter here - it would be way too expensive to get and store hay for two horses. Maybe one could be kept or possibly shared, but in NY, it wouldn't be easy unless you had a lot of land/wealth (same thing). Strangely enough, the mini might make the cut; cheap to keep and could pull a cart, which would be useful.

    Goats would be much easier, cheaper, more useful and more tasty and easier to slaughter/butcher if you needed the meat.


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  16. #36
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    On the security issue...trying to hold what you have...I've got a number of like minded friends...mostly ex-military like us.... who know to get down here to our farm with their guns, ammo, and whatever food they can carry with them assuming the crap hits the fan. Several of my neighbors are on board also. Those of us who actually produce readily eatable food...something requiring little processing...are going to be targets I suspect. Doubt we could hold up to a large assault force but bullies don't like resistance...they want easy targets. Put up some resistance and they may move on.

    I think horses might be useful in a world with no cars or excessively expensive petroleum no one can afford...or shortages of fuel also. Sure, we might eat them also but historically they've been our best working partners. I will have a few around for transportation.


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  17. #37
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    once again, I learn the most..."interesting" things on COTH off topic day.


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    On the security issue...trying to hold what you have...I've got a number of like minded friends...mostly ex-military like us.... who know to get down here to our farm with their guns, ammo, and whatever food they can carry with them assuming the crap hits the fan. Several of my neighbors are on board also. Those of us who actually produce readily eatable food...something requiring little processing...are going to be targets I suspect. Doubt we could hold up to a large assault force but bullies don't like resistance...they want easy targets. Put up some resistance and they may move on.
    In my opinion, security would be our biggest problem. We live in close proximity to a city and suburbs; and our land is wide open and flat. Easy to see and easy to breech. I think we'd need a strong collaboration of neighbors and friends to come together and co-habitate in order to protect our property. (Which is why I'll plant some grain for all those people who have to move to my farm to help us).

    We actually went to a neighborhood happy hour a few months ago and met some of our neighbors for the first time (rural road). The host of the party made an offhand comment about economic collapse or something to me, and I responded in a way that suggested we had considered it too. He admitted, then, that part of the reason for the party was to try to develop some bonds between neighbors and for him to assess their potential "readiness" in the event of an emergency. It was pretty funny but good to know we have some like-minded neighbors just in case.


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  19. #39
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    I don't know that the collapse will look like nuclear war, although that has never been out of the question. I suspect that it will look like a series of natural catastrophes, possibly war, plus a recession/depression, and things will become scarcer.

    At the same time, living this way has allowed my family to go from two very lucrative but painful salaries to one mellower career and a small business (that I take only "fun" money from). If things got bad, we would be able to survive on no salaries at all, because we've structured our lives this way. It's almost like being retired, without being retired yet. If we dug in a little deeper we'd probably be able to "retire" now.

    I see my friends who are living in debt up to their eyeballs, wouldn't know how to grow anything if it planted itself for them, and that scares me for them. One job or industry collapse, one tragedy, and boom, they are in deep doo doo.

    It's not conspiracy theorizing to suggest that our country cannot go on this way. One look at history shows you the cracks in the foundation of trying to keep a country this large together. We've complexified ourselves into a corner. So I'm not talking about humanity's collapse as much as I'm talking about the US.

    That being said...there's a lot of scary stuff going on (the GM foods being a part of that) that really do threaten the whole planet.


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  20. #40
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    Actually this is something that is totally freaking me out!
    I am not prepared.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



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